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Originally posted by Dwigt
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
In the real world, where we grown ups live, all business is not conducted by Wall Street banks. Maybe news travels a bit slower up there, so I guess I can understand your lack of knowledge on how things really work.
Look, I think there are greedy pukes out there that stole money from the American public, which includes me, but that does not mean that every business is corrupt and out to screw the little guy. You need to distinguish your hatred of what happened in '08 with the real world most of us live in.
Originally posted by Dwigt
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
In the real world, where we grown ups live, all business is not conducted by Wall Street banks. Maybe news travels a bit slower up there, so I guess I can understand your lack of knowledge on how things really work.
Look, I think there are greedy pukes out there that stole money from the American public, which includes me, but that does not mean that every business is corrupt and out to screw the little guy. You need to distinguish your hatred of what happened in '08 with the real world most of us live in.
Originally posted by maybereal11
Originally posted by 46ACE
"Johnny canuck":How does Steve Jobs of Apple (a classic success story for one example ) come from a garage based shop to deprive the"lower class of a quality life"? Infact I'd submit: This wealthy man has done more to improve the quality of life of far more people than go see the "pillsbury douchebags" 'socialist commentary movies.edit on 3-3-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)
Steve Jobs is worth 6.1 Billion...If he decided to buy as many MILLION dollar Homes as he could, he would own over 6000 Million dollar estates and not owe a mortgage.
I don't think he will feel the pain if his marginal tax rate inches up by a measly 2%...
There is class warfare alright.
But it is MY class - the rich class - that is making war, and were winning!
I am a conscientous objector
- Warren Buffet
Only 375,000 Americans have incomes of over $1,000,000
Between 1979 and 2007, incomes for the wealthiest 1% of Americans rose by 281%
During the Great Depression, millionaires had a top marginal tax rate of 68%
In 1963, millionaires had a top marginal tax rate of 91%
In 1976, millionaires had a top marginal tax rate of 70%
Today, millionaires have a top marginal tax rate of 35%
44% of Congress people are millionaires
www.fiscalstrength.com...
Also see here...
Billionaires voice support for higher taxes on the wealthy
thehill.com...
Now can anyone tell me where that Bailout money went that was supposed to be spent by banks in the form of business loans and lowered credit card rates etc to spur spending and hiring? That was our money....Money we can ill afford.
Urged to Lend, Banks Sit on Bailout Cash
dealbook.nytimes.com...
edit on 3-3-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by 46ACE
Could Jobs spare an additional2% in taxes as you(maybereal11 ) suggest? Of course he could but that doesn't rationalize just taking a large chunk his fortune just because he has it! Finding a moral rationalizaton to "redistribute" the fortunes is what this whole argument is about..
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Originally posted by 46ACE
Could Jobs spare an additional2% in taxes as you(maybereal11 ) suggest? Of course he could but that doesn't rationalize just taking a large chunk his fortune just because he has it! Finding a moral rationalizaton to "redistribute" the fortunes is what this whole argument is about..
2%? Large chunk?
Taxes are the price you pay for civilisation...and if folks can't afford Job's product, then it doesn't matter what he manufactures. As you seem to have discovered down there, when there's no work, and the credit runs out, things can get a little punky.
Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by 46ACE
You are essentially correct, however, if a person say "invents" a sub prime mortgage, sells that in a predatory way to people he KNOWS cannot afford it, over-inflates the actual value of those investments, then, bundles those mortgages and re sells them to other banks, thereby hinging the entire economy on bad investments, BETS against those assets he knows are going to fail. Then when the whole thing comes crashing down, reaps not only the rewards off of his bets that those investments would fail but brings the entire economy crashing down with it. One could say that they did something wrong and probably do owe "us".
Originally posted by Dwigt
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
Yeah, and my wife's aneurysm has been treated for nothing out of pocket, what is your point?
Originally posted by Mak Manto
I don't get half the comments against Moore...
The man's all about helping those who are less fortunate and not having the wealthy pretty much break the law and break the backs of millions of Americans to become insanely rich.
And Moore himself also goes out of his way to not be that way. For example, he's stated that he has no problem with people uploading his documentaries onto Youtube and other websites to share for free.
The man's about helping those who are suffering...
I know you wrote those words, but I am still scratching my head trying to think of why you did. I agree that most of the "rich" are not literally bankers or wall street brokers, but they definetly had large interests in those sectors being bailed out to secure investments that otherwise would have been worthless.
...I know it is fashionable these days to pretend you never supported them, but in the age of television it's hard to re-write history Here is the most recent I could google up in a few seconds..
Kovacevich joins the swelling ranks of a grass-roots movement aimed at convincing Congress to turn down the Bush administration's plan. The movement crosses party lines. It draws support not only from angry taxpayers but also some economists. And it is beginning to make itself heard in the halls of Congress. "If it looks like they bail out Wall Street, there's going to be a lot of anger," said a Democratic party staffer in Michigan, who declined to be identified. Michigan is a key swing state in the presidential election. Not surprisingly, the movement has found a ready audience online. "A bailout requires responsible Americans to pay for the acts of greedy bankers, mortgage brokers, flippers, and over-extended home-borrowers," intones StopTheHousingBailout.com.
Yes as a "Moderator" you are permitted to post as an individual contributor without being required to behave as a mod. It's Johnny's fault for expecting more, a mistake I myself have made on occasion. I think in part it is due to the excellent example the vast majority of Mods on ATS set. That said IMO your posts are often beligerant and antogonistic and it erodes civil debate amongst the threads. That is directed at you as a poster, not a "Mod".
Originally posted by Mak Manto
I don't get half the comments against Moore...
The man's all about helping those who are less fortunate and not having the wealthy pretty much break the law and break the backs of millions of Americans to become insanely rich.
And Moore himself also goes out of his way to not be that way. For example, he's stated that he has no problem with people uploading his documentaries onto Youtube and other websites to share for free.
The man's about helping those who are suffering...
Originally posted by Asktheanimals
The rich (regardless of how they got their money) have benefited in a general way from society.
They use the road system to move goods to and from their business.
They use the water system paid for by the taxpayer.
They hire people educated through public schools and colleges.
In short, those who have become rich in America have benefited from the public at large.
American industry was once protected through tariffs and other trade barriers that were destroyed with the "Free trade" agreements with the WTO, NAFTA and GATT. Left at the mercy of a strong dollar and weak foreign currencies our industries could not compete and were moved offshore, as indeed much of our operating reserves of currency have as well.
IMO those who have become rich owe a fair share of what they have made back to their country and communities which should be considerably higher than the nominal tax rates they are currently paying.
So if Adam Corolla wants to cry because he only made $1.5 mil instead of $2 mil someone should remind him that he is making his money from being on the Public airways.
Originally posted by Justaposter
Originally posted by Mak Manto
I don't get half the comments against Moore...
The man's all about helping those who are less fortunate and not having the wealthy pretty much break the law and break the backs of millions of Americans to become insanely rich.
And Moore himself also goes out of his way to not be that way. For example, he's stated that he has no problem with people uploading his documentaries onto Youtube and other websites to share for free.
The man's about helping those who are suffering...
Umm.. have you recently fallen down and bumped your head
Listen here, I am old enough to remember when he actually made a decent documentaries. That time has been long gone.
Or my other response is...
ahh to be young again.
Originally posted by Mak Manto
I don't get what people have against him. He has no problem with people wanting to go out and start a business and make money. He has a problem when corporations and certain people lying, cheating and stealing to become wealthy.
That's not a Marxist philosophy...