What the Bible teaches about homosexuality.

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus
People are trying to twist scripture to make it fit with the homosexual lifestyle. I can't. The Bible even speaks of this.

Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

My friend, this passage clearly says to me that his law is the law of the lawbreakers, not the righteous. The righteous would never understand the law. They are hypocrites and law breakers. They make laws contrary to this law, which is to love one another. These lawbreakers are who belong to Christ. They are the Stones the builders rejected. And they will be blessed in the coming kingdom.

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus
1 Corinthians 6:9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality

This is Pauls doctrine, he never actually knew Christ. His doctrine was a different interpretation that he forced on others through the Power of the Empire.

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus
Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

Leviticus 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.

How can any supposed follower of Christ keep pulling up Old testament rules? Didn't Christ die for those sins. Don't you believe he came back not three days later? Then why do you not follow in the Masters ways?
When he died on the cross he said "It is finished". Was that not enough of a sacrifice for your bitter judgemental heart?

Why do we keep judging?

With Love,

Your Brother

oops wanted to edit a spelling error and it reposted it

reply to post by IAMIAM


Someone can come to Christ and still break the law. He even warned them to not sin anymore.

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

John 8:11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

john macartur.....he has been accused of being too legalistic....negating the blood .....i have one of his study bibles and like it....but a homosexual can be a christian if he believes and shows his beliefs...i am not sinless but i am Yahushua's...judge someone..../.....hail no

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus

I've already posted scripture verses above. There is nothing wrong with telling people what sin(s) are. If they don't know they wont repent and come to Christ.

If this was about pointing out that lying is a sin, or stealing is a sin no one would have said much about it but bringing up homosexuality then people scream about being hateful and judgmental. How does that work? Sin is sin and bringing up a specific one isn't being judgmental. It's compassionate because one is trying to save their soul.

There is nothing wrong with telling people they are sinning - I've done the very thing in this thread by saying homosexuality is a sin.....

People freak out about homosexuality because it is a topic that is much talked about today in our media - and people are sensitive to it because there are many people out there who are Christians, yet go about preaching the gospel in the wrong way.

I've already posted scripture verses above. There is nothing wrong with telling people what sin(s) are. If they don't know they wont repent and come to Christ.



Did Christ walk up to people and say, “You there, WHORE!” or “You there, MURDERER!”?

No he did not.

He did not hesitate to tell people they are sinning, but he did it in a better way than a lot of Christians today approach the subject.

You need to understand the mind of a sinner, especially one who has been persecuted their entire life – mostly by people who want to “Save their soul” but constantly put them down and make them feel like garbage; showing them nothing of love or compassion.

We must build a relationship with a sinner and show them the benefits of being in the graces of God.

To approach a homosexual with the mindset of “I’m going to save this person” is the wrong way to approach them – especially then they don’t truly think they need saving or that they are doing anything wrong to begin with.

Ultimately we are trying to “Save their soul” so as to be pleasing to God.

God knows your heart and knows if you truly care about a person or not.

Patience is key when it comes to spreading the Good Word.

Look at some of the posts by people in this very forum who are homosexual – how did they post? They posted with disgust.

Even against those who are trying to help them to be viewed in a better light.

So, you tell me – is directly assaulting their homosexuality the correct way, or should we first let them know that homosexuality is a sin and that you are also a sinner?

People will open up to you more when they relate to you.

You can’t get them to relate to you, let alone God’s great commission, if you directly assault their lifestyle.

Use the mind God gave you.

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Someone can come to Christ and still break the law. He even warned them to not sin anymore.

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

John 8:11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Yes they were sinners. They came to Christ and he did not condemn them. He did not see what they did as Sin. He loved them rather than condemn them. Thus they were charged to do the same with all Mankind.
Love them, not judge them.

I suppose it is how you look at it.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Someone can come to Christ and still break the law. He even warned them to not sin anymore.

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

John 8:11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

I would just like to say Mr Archilluminatus, everything you have said is correct.

The Bible is the Word of God and it does clearly state that being Gay is wrong.

Unless you are a Christian / regular Church goer, you won't know this and a whole lot of other important facts about how we should live our lives.

I have been going to Churches across the UK for over 20 years now on a regular basis and have never met a gay person there unless they kept quiet about it.

Jesus asks everybody (me included) to repent of our Sins and repent means turn away from, stop doing etc.

If people who are Gay and are lucky enough to know of this, they still have Freewill which God gave us and can say no, I'm staying gay even though it's wrong.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
What I'm saying is I don't care what John MacArthur said.

He is not Christ - never will be Christ - Can't compare to Christ.

I care what Christ said - What Christ did.

Christ preached to a whore and loved her. That's pretty sexually immoral.

Christ preached to a drunkard and loved him.

Christ preached to a murderer and loved him.

Christ told a theif that he would go with him to paradise and loved him.

Christ asked God to forgive the very people who were killing him. Why? Because he loved them.

I don't remember seeing a scripture that said, "Behold, Christ came upon a homo and hated him. Scorned him and told him he's going to hell. Threw rocks at him and called all those who would come to hate the homo."

Didn't Christ also tell all those people you mentioned above to "REPENT"?

Yes, He certainly did.

reply to post by MentorsRiddle


Matthew 21:12-13 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”

John 2:15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Matthew 23:33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Sounds like he is taking the more confrontational approach to me.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
I think it is important to remember that God does not hate the sinner, God hates sin.

Therefore, God does not hate homosexuals, he hates the act of homosexuality.

Ah yes, a sympathetic bigot. I heard this response many times growing up in church from those who didn't want God to be a hater against people, but they personally couldn't let go of being against homosexuality. So you're essentially saying God doesn't hate homosexuals, but all homosexuals are wrong and can become straight, which is what God desires for them (watch my eyes roll as I stifle a laugh).

Of course, an all-loving all-knowing God does not hate, so I have no idea of which God you're speaking. All too often we assume man's interpretation of God written in a book is the actual truth, when the actual truth is beyond all comprehension.

God does not hate homosexuality, because God does not hate. If you believe God hates anything, (which I'm sure we have very different definitions of what God is. He is not an old dude in the sky to me) then there is no discussion to be had.

reply to post by ArchIlluminatus


Please list more direct quotes from Jesus regarding homosexuals. Jesus came along to tell the faithful how the old ways (written in the Old Testament) were wrong. So if you source the Old Testament as the truth and the right way, then you are saying that Jesus was wrong and a fraud.

If you believe in Jesus, then source him. And source it in context.

Originally posted by whitl103
reply to post by ArchIlluminatus

 

Please list more direct quotes from Jesus regarding homosexuals. Jesus came along to tell the faithful how the old ways (written in the Old Testament) were wrong. So if you source the Old Testament as the truth and the right way, then you are saying that Jesus was wrong and a fraud.

If you believe in Jesus, then source him. And source it in context.

Christ did speak out against homosexuality. I already quoted it in my first post.

Matthew 19:4-6 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Matthew 21:12-13 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”

John 2:15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Matthew 23:33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Sounds like he is taking the more confrontational approach to me.

That’s because they were selling in the house of God… This is a completely different situation than how he approached people one on one.

Ah yes, a sympathetic bigot. I heard this response many times growing up in church from those who didn't want God to be a hater against people, but they personally couldn't let go of being against homosexuality. So you're essentially saying God doesn't hate homosexuals, but all homosexuals are wrong and can become straight, which is what God desires for them (watch my eyes roll as I stifle a laugh).

Of course, an all-loving all-knowing God does not hate, so I have no idea of which God you're speaking. All too often we assume man's interpretation of God written in a book is the actual truth, when the actual truth is beyond all comprehension.

God does not hate homosexuality, because God does not hate. If you believe God hates anything, (which I'm sure we have very different definitions of what God is. He is not an old dude in the sky to me) then there is no discussion to be had.

A bigot is someone who does not like someone and hates them.

I don’t hate homosexuals – have you not read my previous posts?

Just because I don’t like the choices someone has made does not mean I hate the person. Please don’t put words into my mouth and label me a bigot when I’m doing more in this thread to help how Christians view homosexuals than most are.

If I was a bigot I would say they are all evil and going to hell.

Common……

I don't know if anyone has brought up this fact, but most of the hate stuff comes from the Old Testament. The New Testament (Christs teachings). Do not condone hate or killing of anyone. It's a very different message. Which often makes me question whether the Old and New testament belong together.

A true Christian is opposed to all war and hate of his fellow humans, no matter their behavior. This is something most people calling themselves "Christian" get wrong. They prove themselves to be anything but Christian when they can't even follow his teachings.

Now if we are going to go on strictly what the old testament talks about gay people, the main example is Sodom and Gomorrah. These people weren't civilized homosexuals like we have in today's society who just want to live their life free and aren't a threat to anyone. The people in S&G wanted to rape the men they had seen enter Lots house. Lot offered them his daughters instead and they wouldn't have any of it. These men were SICK gang rapist scum and so the "men" who were in Lot's house (angels) blinded these people and they left with Lot and his family and had the whole city destroyed because there wasn't any "good" left in that place.

Now personally I'm not a "Christian" or follow the bible (even though I was brought up that way). But I prefer the true Christian philosophy of loving one another and treating people how you would like to be treated yourself. If Jesus could heal one of his oppressors (the roman soldiers ear) and ask God to forgive the people putting him to death on the stake, then his followers have a lot to live up to. Those that are war mongering or hate mongers against any creed or sexuality aren't worthy of being called Christian.

reply to post by whitl103


What your not understanding is God is indeed all powerful and all knowing in the sense that he, having the knowledge of the Most High sees homosexual behavior as destestable because God is the perfect seperation between what is defiled and what is holy. Homosexuality is like an active intentive rebellion against God's natrually ordained order.

reply to post by ArchIlluminatus


do not confuse the word of God with the word of man. God loves all of his creatures great and small. man teaches hate God doesn't

reply to post by IAMIAM


Paul did know Christ because Paul was Saul before he became Paul. Jesus came before him on the road to Damascus.


1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 and desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 and he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

Originally posted by jed001
reply to post by ArchIlluminatus

 

do not confuse the word of God with the word of man. God loves all of his creatures great and small. man teaches hate God doesn't

Before we get started here is the definition of abhor so they're wont be anything bickering of it:

abhor:
–verb (used with object), -horred, -hor·ring.
to regard with extreme repugnance or aversion; detest utterly; loathe; abominate.

—Synonyms
despise. See hate.

dictionary.reference.com...

Leviticus 26:30 - "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."

Deuteronomy 32:19 - "And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters."

Psalm 10:3 - "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth."

Psalm 11:5 - "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 22:14 - "The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein."

Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."

Those are verses that shows that God does indeed hate. Got anything else?

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus
reply to post by MentorsRiddle

 

Matthew 21:12-13 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”

John 2:15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Matthew 23:33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Sounds like he is taking the more confrontational approach to me.

So?

As Lord is He not allowed to display this behavior at the thievery going on at the temple?

Originally posted by EnigmaticDill
Paul did know Christ because Paul was Saul before he became Paul. Jesus came before him on the road to Damascus.

Paul is the only one that witnessed this appearance of Christ. If Paul would have truly witnessed Christ, he would have testified that he witnessed Christ with the Father within him. Christ left the disciples and told them where to find him, and it wasn't on a road to damascus. It was within them. He even warned them to beware wolves in sheep's clothing. They did not listen. He warned them that many would come in his name. They did not listen. Even still they do not look for Christ within themselves. They prefer to wait for him to appear in someone else. They prefer to pass the buck.

Originally posted by EnigmaticDill
1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 and desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 and he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

This is not to discredit Paul's work. No, he served a purpose in the grand scheme of things. The followers of Christ have a choice they can make. Go back to Christ and learn from within, or take the word and traditions of a man who never knew you.

But this is just my view. You are welcome to keep yours if it brings you love for all.

With Love,

Your Brother