Could This Be Proof Of Maya Predictions And New Way To Predict The Next Baktun?

Could This Be Proof Of Maya Predictions And New Way To Predict The Next Baktun?

Please at least Wiki Maya Calendar and 2012 stuff below before going any further:

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

There are a lot of fringe interpretations out there and many beliefs only real research is the key to understanding the Calendar of the Maya, a great culture as early as the 5th century BCE, they were very intelligent in astronomical knowledge especially with Venus, the Moon and eclipses. The Calendar itself is more precise than any other calendar devised to date. The Maya were very observant of the skies and this is the reason why they could formulate such a work of art.

The problems with the Maya Calendar and society today:

1. It revolves around the famous GMT constant developed by Joseph Goodman, Juan Martinez-Hernandez and J. Eric S. Thompson and the infamous Gregorian calendar. The problem is lining up our calendar with the Mayan Long Count Calendar by astronomical, archaeological and historical evidence and there is a current fight in the community between Johan Normak from Göteborg University and the classical interpretation group and Gerardo Aldana, Ph.D with the interpretations of a battle date set by the Ruler Balaj Chan K’awiil, he chose this date by the appearance of Chak Ek. Johan Normark believes in classical interpretation (GMT constant) of Chak Ek as Venus rising but Gerardo Aldana, Ph.D and his group interprets the appearance of Chak Ek as a meteor. Between the constant of Venus rise or now this unknown comet or meteor the mismatch of solar calendars and the end date of Dec. 21, 2012 cycle of the next baktun is in question and needs further investigation.

2. Carl Calleman also at odds with Johan Normark proposes using the GMT constant in a different way by changing the beginning date. His work disputes a couple of constants based on the date of solar zenith in Izapa, which occurs on August 12 and 4 Ahau in the Tzolkin count. These two dates chould change the end of this baktun to October 28, 2011.

3. The Maya Calendar time called the Ce Acata or One Reed which translates “important ancestor would return, coming like a butterfly over the oceans.” April 21, 1519 in the Gregorian calendar was the day that Hernando Cortez arrived on the shores as the Mayan Indians witnessing the elders from the prophecies of their calendar. This is the main argument of classical interpretation and the GMT constant. Using this date as a point to align the calendars would confirm December 21, 2012 is still correct and the Aldana theory and Callahan theory needs work to explain this.

No matter what the real starting date and end date of the Mayan Long Count Calendar of this last baktun they all agree on the steps and increase of the rate of change in the calendar motion. This rate of change I believe could be express in the recent social events taking place around the world. This change could be graphically represented by charting the increasing rate of unrest and future possibility with worldwide presidential elections would provide a curve to predict the rate of speed of the next baktun.

From the beginning riots, marches, demonstrations of Western Europe and Central and South America and the rapid expansion of these countries even flowing over in France, England, Denmark, Sweden, and Germany over religions/socioeconomical issues, the rise in prices of commodities caused by inflation in many countries like Thailand, Honduras, Ecuador, Greece, Spain, Ireland and even into the United States including the commonwealth of Puerto Rico for tuition prices and recently the State of Wisconsin over union bargaining.

Then all the newly formed political parties across the world from the Tea Party in the United States, the Green Party in Iran, the Umma Islamic Party, Saudi Arabia's First Political Party, the New Batasuna, Basque Leftist in Spain that have been outlawed since 2003. The Muslim Brotherhood plans a new political party in Egypt which was outlawed, The Mthwakazi Liberation Front (MLF) in Zimbabwe, The Alternative for Humanity party (Alianza para la Alternativa de la Humanidad / APHU) in Peru, to the All Pakistan Muslim League, headed by former dictator of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf for Pakistan, go figure.

With the recent unrest in Dictatorship and Theocratic countries and the political unrest across the world such as The Ivory Coast, Tunisia, Morocco, Iran, Egypt, Bahrain, Iran, Lebanon, Algeria, Yemen, the recent Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, King Abdullah II wants his Premier "to take practical, quick and tangible steps to launch true political reforms, enhance Jordan's democratic drive and ensure safe and decent living for all Jordanians.

Read more: www.time.cm...

The elections across the world also are interesting how they grow in intensity from 2010 to 2012. Major changes in Colombia, Suriname (electing a dictator?), Costa Rica, and Brazil in 2010 will lead to an exciting 2011. Germany, Haiti, U.K., Argentina, Nicaragua, Portugal, Latvia, Ireland, Croatia, Bulgaria, Vietnam, Laos, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Beninese, Cameroon, Chad, Congo, Gambia, Nigeria, Uganda, Zambia, Liberia and then looking forward to 2012. United States, France, Russia, China, Venezuela, Turkey, Jamaica, Cuba, Bahamas, and the Dominican Republic seem to grow as well with 2012 being some big countries changing leadership.


Iran Green Revolution failure of 2009-12010 starts it off the Thailand, in April of last year then, Honduras in August, the Ecuador coup attempt of President Rafael Correa in September, Albania in January of this year, Tunisia following on Wiki leaks cables of the wealth of the President, then Egypt this month, with Bahrain in turmoil now and Lebanon, Morocco, Algeria, Yemen, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia all trouble with the majority population of the people believe their style of government is not for them and wanting change are slowing making change.

Is this the enlightenment the Maya talk about, is this the consciousness we are witnessing real time? Then what should be happening in the future as we get closer to end of this baktun and the beginning of the next baktun?


Anyone Good At Making Time Line Chart?



www.offnews.info...
www.nytimes.com...
www.zimbabwemetro.com...
www.nationalreview.com...
www.eitb.com...
www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com...
www.bloomberg.com...
www.time.com...
www.cbsnews.com...
www.pbs.org...
www.reuters.com...
www.csmonitor.com...
news.discovery.com...

Anyone have any thoughts? You think I am on the right track and should persue this line of thinking, a little feedback would be nice, more than the stars even though they are nice.......

reply to post by coolhanddan


Seems Calleman's theories of a global change in consciousness are indeed playing out right before our eyes. Unfortunately I can't give a mathematical interpretation of the "rate of change" or the like. But you might want to run your data points for recent events against the "Timewave Zero" fractal graph.

Reference:
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by coolhanddan


You've discussed a few correlations here but there are others as well including one that puts the end of the long count calendar some 200 years from now.

No matter what the real starting date and end date of the Mayan Long Count Calendar of this last baktun they all agree on the steps and increase of the rate of change in the calendar motion.

Where does GMT or Normark consider these frivolous claims as happening? The only ones claiming something along these lines are New Age authors.

This change could be graphically represented by charting the increasing rate of unrest and future possibility with worldwide presidential elections would provide a curve to predict the rate of speed of the next baktun.

How do you know that there is an increasing rate of unrest? I don't see that to be the case. Most of the countries you've listed such as Morocco, Iran, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Algeria, Yemen, Ivory Coast, and others have been experiencing unrest for decades.

reply to post by coolhanddan


Why would the Katun predictions calendar have anything to do with future civilizations of non Maya
empires...

the calendar Priests used the 19.7 year long Katun as a measure of a 'generation' of the Maya
peoples...

the timeframe duration along with the 'themes' of each Katun were devised for the Maya
culture for somewhere near 1,000 years.--- 500BCE-1500CE

I think that applying the Maya calendar predictions for the rest of the world is a mistake...
the peoples of that culture, religion, model of living, in that area of the Jungles & Yucatan
is the only peoples the calendar predictions are for and about.

thats another reason for the stella & monument off the coast, some 3 days sea journey
from the S.American coast...to witness the 2012, 21 dec passing through the 'World-Tree'
in the galactic dark-rift ...supposedely no-where else on planet Earth will be aligned any better
than this vantage point known to the Maya


i also think that only nations/peoples that have a Jaguar as a symbol of their peoples
could be affected along the lines of a (metaphysical) Transcendental change...
i.e.= the Maya descendants and the immediate areas surrounding any modern Zoos
with Jaguars in the Zoos' habitats or compounds....
for everyone else on the planet, the destiny wave will blow over our heads with nary a hair out of place

You can even observe the rate of change in less obvious things, like music for example. All genres have now, IMO, been exhausted. In the last fifty years it's gone rock n roll, prog rock/ psychedelic, heavy rock, heavy metal, punk, new wave, rap,hiphop,triphop electronic, to the extent now, where pure noise is produced i.e "aphex twin"
Now it just repeats with genre revivals. Fashion has followed a similar path. Technology and the rate IT is changing. It seems like everything is reaching a point where it can go no further, artistically, socially, and technologically. Coupled with rising tensions economically and socially. All as we approach 2012.

reply to post by stereologist


Stereologist,
You bring up a good point that there are many different theories of the interpretation of the Mayan Calendar, I was unaware it could be off as much as 200 years. I really should have put this link in with the rest so we do not debate the smaller points.

web.archive.org...://members.shaw.ca/mjfinley/corr.html


The claim you are referring to I am guessing is related to my words of “steps and increase of the rate of change”, and that no one believes the “frivolous claims”. Instead of he said she said argument let me know these people who do not believe this other than yourself please make it someone who practices the ways of the Maya or a Professor that has done research in the area of not only calendar related but of interpreting it as well.

Anthony F. Aveni, Colgate Professor of Astronomy and Anthropology

Tadeja Jere Lazanski, PhD

Don Alejandro Oxlaj, Grand Elder of the Maya

Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj, Grand Elder of the National Council of Elders Mayas,

Xincas and Garifunas of Guatemala

Carl Johan Calleman, Ph. D. University of Stockholm, Senior Researcher at the University of Washington in
Seattle and cancer expert for the WHO.

Gerardo Aldana, associate professor at the Univ. of California at Santa Barbara

I can go on, but the point of this post is not label the idea as “frivolous claims” by New Age Authors, did you forget the people that follow the calendar today? The idea is to buck the mainstream which you hold so close to your heart. Please, if you will, magically in your head add the word hypothetically to anything you do not agree with so you can finish my post and then respond, that would be appreciated.

Your last point is to assume Morocco, Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, Algeria, Yemen, and the Ivory Coast has been in constant unrest for decades, not true…

Your words “Most of the countries you've listed such as Morocco, Iran, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Algeria, Yemen, Ivory Coast, and others have been experiencing unrest for decades.”


Morocco:
Kingdom since the 60’s hardly any demonstrations due to swift death.

en.wikipedia.org...

(You are wrong here they have been under a King for many generations, and have yet to start a revolution, if you read my post, but it is in the air, the people are changing.)

Iran:
Iran officially became an Islamic Republic in April 1979. In December 1979, the country voted to have a theocratic constitution, whereby Khomeini became Supreme Leader of the country, since then there has been a Green Party opposed to them but only in the last few years have they demonstrated in mass number and asking for change publically.

en.wikipedia.org...

(Wrong again, they are not in a state of unrest the majority voted this way)

Egypt:
Between Naguib, Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak the people of Egypt have not seen real democracy since before 1953. Although there have been struggles to remove one dictator for another, they have still been struggling but have never actually got a President to give up power to a Vice President to change the political environment.

en.wikipedia.org...

(The exact opposite you claim)

Lebanon:
With a civil war from 1975 to 1990, I could agree with you here there has been many issues with Lebanon, they have had a constant struggle for peace or some kind of functioning government. Since 2005 though, these actions have intensified and actually prove my theory more I believe.

en.wikipedia.org...

(WOOT WOOT you are right)

Algeria:
Way off the mark here, Algeria since civil war and elections in 1991 have not had problems but 2002 incident, but what is your standard since the US had a incident within that time frame as well…..

en.wikipedia.org...

(Wrong again unless you put the United States in your category)

Yemen:
President Ali Abdullah Saleh pulled a Bush and got this last election in 2006. Since the unified Yemen is only 11-12 years old you cannot claim it is so bad, poor yes, bad no. This supports my idea even more in fact that there are riots in the street over this, like everywhere across the planet.

en.wikipedia.org...

(I will use a baseball rule and says tie goes to the runner, you are right here since it looks like a dictator is in place and the population is trying to change, like in my opening statement.)

Côte d'Ivoire:
Completely right here, absolute chaos since resently, but the rioting are for other reasons now, its because of food, no because of civil war.

en.wikipedia.org...

(WOOT WOOT you are right)

3 out of 7 countries

Should we go on or will you “hypothetically” help me and follow the argument…..

Why do people keep banging on about the "Maya predictions" they didn't predict anything! Not didly squat so why are people still saying "predictions"! Please show me there predictions that's right there ain't any.

Geezzzzzzz peeps!

reply to post by simples


1. The Mayan predicted "Kukulcan" a white bearded god from the East, (in my first post) who had assisted them in setting up their great civilization; Thought to be a survivor of the legendary Atlantis. The Spanish conquistadors arrived on queue. It would appear the Maya were not expecting a god that would nearly wipe them out since they welcomed the conquistadors with open arms.

2. The Mayan predicted the existence of a black hole at the center of our Galaxy, a black hole they called "HUNAB KU"; their central sun and creator of all. In recent years, Modern Science confirmed the existence of a black hole at the center of our Milky Way galaxy.

3. The Mayan Calendar predicted a total solar eclipse in 1999, it occurred on schedule.

4. The Mayan Calendar predicted an eruption of cosmic energy rays from the back hole would occur in 1992, twenty years prior to 2012. This energy would help create aggressive sun spots and bring increasingly hotter temperatures to Earth. We are now witnessing the affects now and our pollution is only making things worse. The cosmic energy rays were witnessed and confirmed in 2004.

5. The Mayan Calendar predicted a change of consciousness from left-brain thinking to right-brain thinking (Logical to Intuitive) in the same time period as above. Further, some deduced the melt down of the world’s paper currencies in a period between Nov. 2007 and Oct. 2008 as humanity loses confidence in the abstract (paper currency) and embraces the more concrete, such as gold and other precious metals: They are both in process.

Source(s):

The Seven Mayan Prophecies
Message of awareness and hope

reply to post by coolhanddan

I can go on, but the point of this post is not label the idea as “frivolous claims” by

New Age Authors, did you forget the people that follow the calendar today? The idea is to

buck the mainstream which you hold so close to your heart.

I certainly do not hold to the mainstream.

Your list of names includes Calleman who is hardly someone that can properly interpret Mayan writing. You also list a number of self appointed people such as Don Alejandro. Claiming that modern Mayans are able to provide information on the ancient Mayans better than a scholar regardless of heritage is in my humble opinion a racist comment.

Morocco - Despite a monarchy, and I was there when Mohamed Cinq was crowned, has seen its share of unrest particularly along the Western Saharan and Algerian borders.

Iran - has seen unrest in many parts of the country especially along its borders.

Egypt has seen had problems with the Muslim Brotherhood for years which have resulted in mass trials. The heavy handed nature of the government does not mean that unrest has been completely stifled. In fact, you state that unrest has been going on for some time:

Although there have been struggles to remove one dictator for another

This is so completely wrong it amazes me.

Algeria since civil war and elections in 1991 have not had problems but 2002 incident

In 1993 Algerians saw the assassination of leaders. By 1994 there was intense turmoil in the country. There was a great deal of fighting with many deaths.
List of Algerian massacres of the 1990s
Again you are way off the mark - actually completely wrong.

Yemen has been an a region of strife for a long period of time with unrest and terrorist acts.

About the only country I might yield is Morocco. The unrest in Morocco was kept out of the main metropolitan areas for the most part. The rest are certainly areas of unrest and have been areas of unrest for extended periods of time.

Unrest is not just the unseating of government. Unrest is the intense dissatisfaction with a government that may or may not lead to a change in government.

reply to post by coolhanddan


The issue with 2012 is that there are no predictions associated with the long count calendar which wraps in 2012.

As far as these predictions go

1. There is no Atlantis and certainly no indication from the Mayans they knew of Plato's fabled Atlantis
   
2. The Mayans did not know about galaxies. They did not know about the center of something they did not know about. The Milky Way was considered by the Mayans to be a road. The Hunab Ku symbol is a mutilated Aztec symbol, not Mayan. The Hunab Ku appears to be an invention of the colonialists in an effort to subjugate the Mayans.
   
3. The Mayan calendar did not predict a solar eclipse. Astronomical tables predict solar eclipses. These predictions have been demonstrated by many cultures.
   
4. The Mayans did not know about cosmic rays. Cosmic rays do not heat up the sun or Earth. This is beyond ridiculous.
   
5. The Mayans did not predict a change in consciousness. This sounds like some New Age hooey from Calleman or Lungold.
   

Your sources appear to be hoax sites. Imagine that!

The enemy is the loss of focus due to preoccupation with questions that can't really be answered and don't really matter if they were to be solved.
like the hegelian dialectic...
coke or pepsi
is it
or
isn't it accurate...

reality is happening now.
that is important.
really

reply to post by Danbones


Thanks DanBones for seeing the point of this post, the smaller points always seems to attract the trolls, do you feel this is going on as well? I missed the analogy if it was directed that way, I understood it as fighting over he said she said stuff.....

reply to post by stereologist


Hey Stereologist,

Thanks for all the posts; the last one calling me racist is sad though. To stoop to name calling about asking for a few people that share your views with knowledge of the subject is absolutely fair and your response is not respected or tolerated by me. I started this post based on assumptions most of us share, Change Is Happening. If you wish to argue that matter to your heart’s content that is your decision, heck make your own thread, but let’s be civil. If this idea falls under your crazy category then why are you here? If you feel it necessary to disrespect people by name calling you can enroll in an anger management class at your local community college to work on that issue.

I am asking for help to determine a way to chart the change we are seeing today across the world, I noticed similarities with the long count of the Maya or really Olmec calendar and notice if these “new agers” (your words, I listed PhD’s, and Mayan Elder, you listed nada) are correct then we could chart the rate of this change and follow the graph.

Please I am not here to get into name calling and small points of what happened to each country from the beginning of time to present. I do know across the world people are demonstrating and rioting for different reasons and it seems to be growing in intensity now and with the elections coming up could be dramatic change. If this corresponds with something you do not believe in then why not assume for a moment you are incorrect and they are right, does the data make sense or not, then decide, not before.

Without collecting data and analyzing it really what are you arguing? You have not facts either, nothing to prove my reasoning is wrong. Personally, I agree with you in some ways I do not believe a calendar can predict future events, but I am following every avenue because I do not like to assume.

to Assume = making an ASS out of U and ME

I'm sorry but I still stay the predictions are bogus, what people regard as predictions are infact interpretations and that's all they are some peoples interpretations of a an old lost civilisation even the people that claim to be remnants of the Mayan civilisation can't work there calendar, writings or hieroglyphs out, so what makes some scientist any better? I mean there have been several people trying to work out when there calendar actually ends what are we on now I think it's date number five isn't it so what date is it, or are they all wrong?

reply to post by simples


Simples,

I am totally with you on this line of reasoning. It is hard to interpret the exact time based on your points. This is why I am trying to do it differently. Since we "theorize” the Mayan "predicted" "change" and "conscience awaking” through all their works from calendars to whatever floats your boat, then let’s just plot the increase of civil unrest across the world and the rate of increase to determine the baktun date.

I use the date to line up the Maya Long Count and our calendar with this:

#3 of my original post:

The Maya Calendar time called the Ce Acata or One Reed which translates “important ancestor would return, coming like a butterfly over the oceans.” April 21, 1519 in the Gregorian calendar was the day that Hernando Cortez arrived on the shores as the Mayan Indians witnessing the elders from the prophecies of their calendar. This is the main argument of classical interpretation and the GMT constant. Using this date as a point to align the calendars would confirm December 21, 2012 is still correct and the Aldana theory and Callahan theory needs work to explain this.


P.S. all the “ “ are for my friends that cannot get past these points.

reply to post by St Udio



I respect your opinion that this is only for the culture that create it, however, I am going to continue looking for correlations with that is happening in the world today and the wise men from the past who happen to live in what we call South America/Central America/Mexico today. I believe we can learn something from them, like their calendar which is better than ours, or their agriculture that far surpasses any GMO plant we have today.

I also take information from other cultures as well like the automobile from the United States. I love to read the teachings of Hippocrates (the original oath is interesting), Homer, and Pythagoras but I am not Greek. With that line of thought, can only Jews but only by blood, Islam only Semitic? Could that make Jews, Islam by nature since they are both Semitic or the right conclusion would be that anyone that studies hard enough can learn the true nature of anything be it science, philosophy, religion, ect..

From your own line of thought here:
“i also think that only nations/peoples that have a Jaguar as a symbol of their peoples
could be affected along the lines of a (metaphysical) Transcendental change...
i.e.= the Maya descendants and the immediate areas surrounding any modern Zoos
with Jaguars in the Zoos' habitats or compounds....
for everyone else on the planet, the destiny wave will blow over our heads with nary a hair out of place”

St. Udio

-Could you really mean all people since they viewed this in a galactic sense since they reference the Milky Way galaxy, Venus and the Moon? Should this not affect everyone on the planet since it is on that scale? You write “the destiny wave will blow over our heads with nary a hair out of place”, I believe that but what is under the hair I am concerned about.

I am no expert on this subject and I am far from saying I am really knowledgeable however couldn't that translation below just be a coincidence or even added when this event happened, but me personally IMO I would say coincidence because the mayans are regarded as been very intelligent and an advanced civilisation therefore I would say when they say "ancestor" that's exactly what they mean and by ancestor I mean as the word we know today and the meaning of that word and Cortez is no ancestor of the mayans, I may be wrong and you might be able to iron that out for me

The Maya Calendar time called the Ce Acata or One Reed which translates “important ancestor would return, coming like a butterfly over the oceans.”

Again it's all down to interpration because I bet you read that translation and take something away from it different to what I or many other people would.

reply to post by simples


Mayans or not, it's pretty clear we do need a shift in [global] consciousness, and we need one PDQly. We simply can't go on as we have: it doesn't work – we're destroying the planet & everything in it.

But in truth, the remedy is all so basic, ... we need to move away from the post-Kantian materialistic view of existence. We need to ditch our Vices... our Greed, our self-obsessed Vanity, our desire for Want. Haven't you found satisfaction, in anything, is transient? ... that you want something, a must-have, then having it leaves you still wanting? It only leads to more desire in the material, a bigger fix... yet still, that fix wont quench the want so we pursue yet more material things to feed that desire ... the death of desire will set you free.

One person can make a change. Call it a butterfly effect. Make that change in yourself and very soon it will become a tsunami.

reply to post by chocise


Come on MOD he's completely off topic and taking some puff the magic dragon
Delete his post and this one. Thanks

Surely that belongs in some thread somewhere in fragile earth.