The Philosophy of Violence

I thought there was a philosophy forum, but I did not see it. I put it here because it is relevant to the weapons that we create.

Some people would tell you to stick with what you are good at, so lets ask ourselves as a species, what are we good at more than anything else? Opinions may vary, but it is overwhelmingly evident that humans are probably by far the most efficient killers this planet has ever produced.

Most apex predators in the natural world are at the top of the food chain simply because they are difficult to kill and have the natural mechanisms and capability to subdue any other organisms in their ecosystem, mostly out of biological necessity of course. Humans are different however, we are not hard to kill and we can survive as herbivores (not considering the killing of plant life for the purposes of this thread). In fact, we are relatively frail beings in comparison to other animals that reside here on this Earth with us. So what makes us so 'special'? It is the fact that we are intelligent beings that have refined the art of killing through innovation, perfectly illustrated by the quote "The best defense is a good offense" by Mao Zedong. For the most part, every other pseudo-intelligent species on this planet reacts with fear or caution when encountering a human being (unless of course they are conditioned otherwise), they know somewhere in their mind that there is something different about us, and that we are potentially dangerous. After all, their kin have grown with us throughout our shared history, those who ran from us lived and so produced offspring with the inclination to run from humans.

Through the ages we have expanded to the far corners of the world and now every where you go, in every nook and cranny there are humans, most of which are killing each other or animals to survive and prosper. By means of our intelligence we are the fastest, strongest and most cunning of species we know, even transcending the boundaries of Earth itself and traveling into the heavens. This is who we are, this is who we have always been.

Now, we have grown up. We are asking ourselves, is it right of us to make weapons? Is it okay to continue the destruction of other human members of our planet? Sometimes if we do not make a better weapon than the opposing group, they will kill us, so in a sense we are still doing it to survive and carve out our own little piece of the world. We consider the forceful death of another human a bad thing, yet that individual is still going to eventually die, possibly in a more painful death. We consider that sometimes it is a necessary evil, sometimes forces that we do not even understand require us to carry out 'their' will, sometimes we do it for personal profit, in the end we are, and have always been a selfish species, and a selfish world.

What would happen if one sect of our planet laid down their arms? Would they be subdued by others?

What would happen if the entire world laid down their arms? Is this even possible?

Who else is out there that could mean us harm? Should we attempt to defend our world against possible threats of which that we are not sure they even exist? Should we weaponize our planets orbit? Considering what we know from our own history, maybe its not such a bad idea.

Should we stick with what we are good at? Are we afraid? Yes, we are very afraid, like a cornered animal fighting for its right to live. The more knowledge we gain, the more we have to fear. Regardless of any necessity we lack the responsibility and the compassion to demilitarize the world, we cannot feel safe unless we subdue others that may be potentially dangerous. To those who dream of a peaceful planet, this is a pipe dream and IMHO I don't see it happening any time in the foreseeable future, this is who we are. However admirable it may be to fight our instincts, it is futile. Is the only way we can unite ourselves by means of force? Is this what is happening to us?

How would we fix this? Possibly if we could share the emotions and thoughts of every single individual with every other. That is not currently possible, but could it be? Compassion alone is just not going to cut it, we just can't comprehend the suffering of another individual, nor do we really care deep in our minds. It is because of the four and a half billion year violent struggle it took to produce us, it cannot be changed in a mere few thousand years. It will possibly take a revolutionary and controversial innovation or idea, until we can figure it out all we are doing is sitting around criticizing each other pointlessly, which may create violent action in itself, how ironic.

So, now that I have said all that crap, what is your opinion?

Do you really think we can lay down our guns?

Do you really think that violence is not necessary?

Do you even think it is possible and if so, how and what is the basis for that belief?

reply to post by RSF77


“If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month.”- Theodore roosevelt

I hate to say it, but I think weapons and violence are a natural part of the world. Sure, I can imagine a world without weapons or war or violence. I can also imagine invading such a place, because they would never see it coming. Where would we be today without weapons? We'd be scavengers and farmers, living in fear of the wildlife of the world.

reply to post by TedHodgson


I know, lol. I am interested in your opinion though.

reply to post by RSF77


By the way, there is a forum for philosophy and the like
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by RSF77


Im not going to Turn this into Another Anti-Gun post Because People will winge about how im wrong.

But yes, I have faith that we as human beings can one day lay down our arms and Work towards a better future for our children.

Of course there will Allways be evil in the world because there needs to be a balance between good and evil to keep things spicy, However 99% Of people are not part of the solution therefore are part of the problem

reply to post by warbird03


Ah sorry, I thought there was one, but I did not see it when I looked. I suppose if it is important enough a moderator can move it.

reply to post by TedHodgson


I know I would hate for this to turn into a pointless argument, I am attempting to be somewhat unbiased here.

We are those children, so what would the solution be?

If 99% of the people believe different do you think the 1% has the right to enforce their ideals on the vast majority? However violent they may be.

Ha Ha ... it is moral and ethical to ask why spiritual humans hunt for sport ... so it is a philosophical question after all..
i say we do it out of boredom ...

I don;t know if it would be possible to live in a peaceful utopia without weapons. Even if we did the superman movie thing of getting rid of all the nuclear weapons. Someone out there would still have an idea. And they would believe in that idea so much that they would use or need force to have others implement or follow that idea. So people would just create new weapons.

If you did live in a world where no one had any weapons what would stop the one person who had a weapon from trying to rise to power?

reply to post by Skydancer


Yes, it seems somewhat immoral for spiritual people to hunt for sport, to find enjoyment out of the killing of another animal. I guess they don't make that connection in their mind, further proof that we are selfish, uncompassionate beings. Assuming certain spiritualistic beliefs of course, some of them have different ideas of what is right and wrong.

reply to post by American-philosopher


The frightening thing is that the more knowledge of the workings of reality we gain, the more powerful our weapons get. Potentially in the future, we may be able to create a small amount of a substance volatile enough to eliminate entire continents or unfortunately maybe even more. I guess maybe we should expand our civilization beyond what we are capable of destroying, that would be one way of ensuring human survival I suppose.

To answer you question, I think nothing would.

reply to post by RSF77


I belive the 1 percent have a right to live in peace away from all the wrong in the world, To be honest the human race has got into so many "Bad ways" At the moment the only thing i can think of is a complete re-form of society, Some like to think there will be a great war and suddenly everyone will be at peace, WRONG people never learn from their mistakes and never honour what has been fought for in the past, Its really hard to be a good person in this world and be completely Un-Influenced by Violence and hatred but i do try and have worked in charity since i left university.

After looking through your Posts RSF77 i can also say your one of the better people on this planet

reply to post by TedHodgson


I know, sometimes I cringe a little when I hear someone say "human nature". However, historically it has been at least somewhat true that chaos breeds great change, though there has been much suffering to create even the world we live in today, in all its inadequacy. Sometimes I think about if some sort of generational memory, as in the ability to retain information from parent to child, might benefit us through genetic engineering, what do you think about that? Is it immoral and has potential for abuse or could it help?

Don't be too quick to butter my #, if you look through my posts long enough you are bound to find something dumb, lol. I have my moments.

reply to post by RSF77


I am passive all my life and i am human, more human than most as alot of humans are what op described.

reply to post by andy1033


Ah, a passive misanthrope?

I used to think sort of like a misanthrope, as I have (IMHO a healthy) fear of people. But, I realized one day that I was irrationally spiteful against people who did not deserve it. I still am sometimes, it's hard to shake.

My previous hatred for humans made me much more fond of animals though.

reply to post by RSF77


Yeah, Sometime's the most Immoral seeming Action can create the most moral reaction, I get what you mean, Like implanting essentially "Lessons" Into a childs brain, Then again that could be seen as sacrificing humanity, Hmmm recently ive been thinking though that maybe the way to go Is to dampen the effects of human Interaction such as Children indiviually learning without influence of others that could allow them to see any negative aspect of humanity Such as along the line of Monkey conditioning:

jasonkolb.com...

To the idea that children will know what is wrong and what is right without questioning it.

Then again i have no idea to be honest im just speculating

That idea would require removing complete freedom from society, But then again maybe freedom to think how we want might infact be the problem

reply to post by TedHodgson


I was thinking more along the lines of somehow altering our DNA so that memories may be transmitted from the mother to the child during the process of gestation, if that is even feasible. Like I said though it may not be a good idea for reasons I'm not currently thinking of, but it seems like it would increase our capacity for knowledge if it is possible and had no bad side effects. There is the whole thing of imposing on the child's freedom of choice as well, but then again we are already hacking away at our kids gonads when they are babies. You might even consider giving them a name in which they might(?) base their entire being and personality off of imposing on their freedom of choice if you run down that thought long enough. Ever wonder why everyone looks like their name? For instance ever think about how all Roberts act like Roberts, and all Andreas act like Andreas? Funny thought.

Good point on our freedom being the problem, it really makes you think about what is right and whats wrong with us as a species. After all freedom can pretty much mean freedom to do anything, we can't just give people the freedom to do whatever they want, they would go around killing and raping each other. Double edged sword I guess.

That is a funny experiment, I would imagine those monkeys were pretty confused. Good illustration of mob rule.

reply to post by RSF77


Ah well what youve got is an Idea intended for a good purpose, And ideas in the name of good should never be ignored

Yeah i love that monkey experiment, Theve all been conditioned to not go up the Stairs because the others will attack any One that does, Even though none of them no why they shouldnt go up the stairs

All this stuff about how humans are violent is bull. I have more harassment than any of you and i have not hit anyone since high school, at around 13, thats 22 years ago.

Its total bull how they say males are violent. My life proved the ptb are talking bull. Are they violent, no they are more like priests, and its you people they make into violent thugs, so you can be police or soldiers for them.

reply to post by TedHodgson


So we may have some kind of a solution on how we can bring compassion and understanding of one another to the masses, however controversial it might be. If someone truly knows of the suffering that their ancestors experienced, they are probably more likely not to use violence and destruction against another human being, because they understand the pain it causes indirectly, but sort of first hand in a sense. Of course this would take a bit of time to take effect, probably anywhere from several to maybe scores of generations. I like it because it sort of resembles the way we evolved and came to be in the first place, we may already be wired for it.

I doubt it would fly in today's world though, at least in America it would not be accepted, people are very defensive of their children especially when it comes to things they do not understand. But, great chaos brings great change.

reply to post by andy1033


I can't say that I agree with you about humans being violent, the fact remains that people are killing people and making weapons to do it better as well. This has always been happening throughout history, it happens in the natural world as well.

reply to post by andy1033


I think your at a time of many questions in your life Andy arnt you... Such as Why me?why do i have such an erractic life when ive done nothing wrong?

I know the many things that are wrong with this planet and it seems its got to you

Have hope, answers come in many forms, and when the answers do come youll never look back