The UK is NOT under Islamic control

Originally posted by Gakus
It's rather pathetic watching people from other countries always trying to pass the blame onto America, grow up and take responsibility for your own mistakes. Its really pretty sad.

Blame you for what?

Your ex Pres and our ex PM did the mistakes if you mean the wars, I don't blame the American people for anything, they are just as much annoyed about these wars as us Brits.

And should add, as well as the innocent people in these countries.

reply to post by NadaCambia


I have lived most of my life on a very rough council estate, (I am well travelled though), in a notoriously violent town in N.E. England.
I learnt to look after myself at a young age.

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

Originally posted by Gakus
It's rather pathetic watching people from other countries always trying to pass the blame onto America, grow up and take responsibility for your own mistakes. Its really pretty sad.

Blame you for what?

Your ex Pres and our ex PM did the mistakes if you mean the wars, I don't blame the American people for anything, they are just as much annoyed about these wars as us Brits.

And should ad, as well as the innocent people in these countries.

edit on 27-1-2011 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)

I agree with you on this 100%. Although my posts on this topic could be read totally different, i do blame the Governments. I also blame us people for letting it get to this and not many standing up for what is good for the people.

Originally posted by SKinLaB

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

Originally posted by Gakus
It's rather pathetic watching people from other countries always trying to pass the blame onto America, grow up and take responsibility for your own mistakes. Its really pretty sad.

Blame you for what?

Your ex Pres and our ex PM did the mistakes if you mean the wars, I don't blame the American people for anything, they are just as much annoyed about these wars as us Brits.

And should ad, as well as the innocent people in these countries.

edit on 27-1-2011 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)

I agree with you on this 100%. Although my posts on this topic could be read totally different, i do blame the Governments. I also blame us people for letting it get to this and not many standing up for what is good for the people.

There's our problem, it's now considered non PC to stand up for your rights, here in the UK we always had a reputation of being 'the good old Brits, you can rely on us' but that's now changed to 'good old brits, we can get away with it with them'. I used to be proud of the rep we had, here to help, no problem too much but its been eroded and trodden on so much that we are now one of the few places on earth you can walk into, abuse us and ask for things to be changed to your way, the when in Rome ideology has long since left the building.

That is simply the truth..I'm not talking radicals here, I'm talking ANYONE, we simply get walked all over by every person while most Brits are now classed as second class in their own country. No need to take my word, go out and ask the people.

And looking at America I can see some very angry people hating the way they are being treated by their own government over almost everything. I've seen the sudden trend into bring back racial issues that seemed part of the distant past, I'm not saying racism does not exist there but the issue with the 'black man' has suddenly become part of politics again.

Trust me, there's a lot more to worry about than raising that again and purely for political gain as you can be sure whoever floats that boat sure as hell won't do anything to help those people.

I look at our lot in charge here, when they are not dipping their thieving hands into the public purse to buy presents for themselves they are constantly undermining the people of this country by passing stupid laws and allowing stupid practices while bending over backwards to help those that threaten us.

Apparently there's no calling a Muslim a terrorist, its a bad thing, and yes I agree that you should never blanket call any race or faith otherwise you are calling my lovely mother in law a terrorist just for being Muslim. But when a Radical man stands up and starts screaming about Allah and threatening to blow me up in the name of his religion I think I have the right to call him a radical Muslim terrorist because that's exactly the description he has given himself.

But here, we are to afraid to say these things.

Here we allow Muslim only bathing times...Good lord...

I can fully understand women only times and that would match most normal Muslim womens needs but a dedicated time for those whose thoughts are more radical is just insane. To allow Muslim only eating area's is another odd one, my in laws quite happily sit in McDonalds or wherever having a fish burger, they don't feel the need to have a room just for them.

The people that do are those who would bring sharia here.

I don't blame those people for trying, I blame the idiots who run this country for bowing down to silly choices, with these choices I include us being in the EU, a place will sure as hell pay into but get nothing back apart from telling us what we can't do on our own shores.

Sadly its the governments we really need to sort out, perhaps one day they might do what they say, listen to the very people who voted them in...I really doubt there's a chance of that I'm afraid.

Slightly veering off the total gist of the thread but valid none the less, I think a lot of Britain's feel their country isn't really theirs any more (those in well paid gainful employment with a nice house in a nice area won't agree).

We see a country where fraud of all kinds is at an all time high.

Despite previous government statements they now acknowledge that Britain is a target for benefit fraud, free medical treatment, a hiding place as we failed to keep track of who in or not when allowing people in. A place that's gone beyond multicultural, its now more middle east in some area's than it is British.

Now while I agree with a level of multiculturalism (I would not have met my lovely wife if my inlaws were not allowed in, in the 50s) but like every other country you must maintain your identity and ideals.

Here we allow to deliberately exempt your self from integration and to form communities within communities, we allow the ability to refuse to speak English. Honestly, where else in the world would not speaking the tongue of that country be allowed in work or to get money. Just the other day a couple of young mothers were told to leave a toddlers group because when asked their nationality they said British, they were told this toddlers group was for 'foreign mothers' only, a play group funded by the council out of all tax payers money is off limits to a Brit, come on people.

A private funded place is bad enough but to use our own cash and exempt us.

What I don't get is that we are not and never have been living together, there are area's that are purely of one culture or another, hardly the multicultural ethic going on here. Its creating confrontations, mistrust and fear.

If you walk down the main road in Wembley in London you will see and hear roads almost completely Muslim orientated and the call to prayers blaring out of loud speakers at the mosque, why, Muslim people know their times for prayer. It makes people feel like they are in another country and for me that's a stage gone to far, you have brits of all creeds colours and faiths wondering what the hell is going on here.

Having a culture is vital, trying to remove some one else's indigenous one is criminal...

reply to post by Mclaneinc


Well I don't get you as a racist. I know that some cities are changing but it is up to us to fight the changes that we see that we don't like. Or move. Streatham has become a dump but part of it was due to Lambeth council's cock ups.

The thing is once an area goes down hill it requires gentrification (private buyers) or Public money. At this time we have neither

Originally posted by NadaCambia

Why oh why is classism acceptable when racism is not?

It's not classism. Most people who talk about neds and chavs are working class to the bone themselfs. It'd be classism on your behalf to assosciate the lower class with chavs. Because nobody else on here seems to be doing that but you.

From the OP

Originally posted by Nammu

If you ask me what the REAL problem is in the UK it's neds/chavs.

Nothing like a little working class rhetoric to undermine working class values. The OP also referred to media manipulation of public opinion being the root cause of non-Muslim distrust of Muslims.

But here is the thing; all is class war . That the policy makers are not deemed responsible for the degradation of British values but rather either a minority ethnic group or if you are concerned about being labelled racist, point the finger of blame at media defined sections of the working classes, proves the effectiveness of media driven NLP.

Think man! Think!

I don't believe it has anything to do with a 'class war', but the essence of what is responsible for our social/ethical/moral shift has been hinted at in earlier posts: there is no respect, or notion of decency because everyone, and I mean everyone, is on the make feathering their own nests, for their own benefit and it's more a case of FU m8, I'm alright and frankly, I couldn't GAS what or who you are anyway... and that goes from the top, through the monarchy, House of Lords & peers, House of Commons right down to the benefit leaches.

Nobody gives a damn anymore. There's zero sense of morality, or decency... it's been eroded by the selfish of all classes gratifying their own material greed.

reply to post by chocise


Yes, British society has become hardened and more and more people are on the take. But the whole, 'who is responsible for degrading British values' arguement is a class issue. We may be outraged about MP's expenses scandals but the elites are not. They are outraged that they have been caught and held accountable for their actions. That so few have been prosecuted and so far, with only one receiving a custodial sentence, is in my opinion, indicative of the full effectiveness of the old boys network that supports the apportioning of blame between the working classes.

Amongst the Moslems this class division exists also. The ruling classes will do anything to protect their positions even create scapegoats from within their own ethnic groups. And if they can, with the help of their spin machines, convince the ordinary phleb that this group or that group are to blame for the rise in crime and the general degeneration of societal values, then they can sit back and enjoy the fat of the land with impunity.

Incidently, to the posters who have commented on American media representation of the growth of Islam in the UK. Until this economic 'downturn', the increase in homelessness in America was not widely reported in America but in the UK, we have been aware of the gulf between American haves and havenots, since it has been reported in the British media since at least the late 1970's.

In fact, in the UK, this has been standard sociology/socio-economic study material for decades!

Originally posted by teapot

Originally posted by NadaCambia

Why oh why is classism acceptable when racism is not?

It's not classism. Most people who talk about neds and chavs are working class to the bone themselfs. It'd be classism on your behalf to assosciate the lower class with chavs. Because nobody else on here seems to be doing that but you.

From the OP

Originally posted by Nammu

If you ask me what the REAL problem is in the UK it's neds/chavs.

Nothing like a little working class rhetoric to undermine working class values. The OP also referred to media manipulation of public opinion being the root cause of non-Muslim distrust of Muslims.

But here is the thing; all is class war . That the policy makers are not deemed responsible for the degradation of British values but rather either a minority ethnic group or if you are concerned about being labelled racist, point the finger of blame at media defined sections of the working classes, proves the effectiveness of media driven NLP.

Think man! Think!

But still, that's not classist. How can it be classist or even construed as such, when the people making the claims are in the same class, and proud of it?

reply to post by NadaCambia


Social mobility and disassociation.

The aspirant working classes will be the first to follow the example of the social class they aspire to and point the finger of blame at the non aspirant amongst themselves. In so doing, they demonstrate association with those they want to emulate and disassociate from those they seek to escape. It kind of works incrementally, with each 'group' distancing themselves from the group 'below' them.

Fact is, the group who actually are responsible for bringing the country down, ie, the rulers, the elites or as I like to call them the Rifles (after Eton, but not exclusive to), can sit back and not concern themselves too much with how their policies have altered the social strata and fueled distrust and even loathing between groups of non elites.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that there are Islamic groups, actually no, I know this as fact, who have employed a strategy of silent invasion, changing the host country from within. I get that the moderates are not comfortable with this, that they fled the extremism of their country of origin, enjoy western freedoms and do not relish the thought of again being ruled within a Theocracy. But you know what? Should a time come that cultural conflict degenerates into full confrontation and the fence is torn down, the moderates are not likely to opt out of their faith and fight for those freedoms they have come to cherish. They are far more likely to not chose the path of the apostate but rather seek to bring the voice of reason that will moderate the worst excesses of the extremists agenda. Which of course, will not be immediately acheived. If there are any overt attempts to instal Islamic Theocracy in this country in my lifetime, I will be one those murdered or imprisoned for refusing to deny my values and adopt values that are anathema to me. In the same way that the moderates will not deny their values just to protect my right to self-determination that is not compatible with the Islamic control system.

Of course the elites of some of the current Islamic nations are also Rifles! And no matter what the underlying ideology, elites will always make policies that disempower non elites. And then point the finger of blame for any negative impact of said policies, on some group or another that are not elite.