Flotilla Commandoes: Armed mob lynched us

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by afaik

 

Didn't both Israel and Egypt offer to pass those commodities through the land crossings under those activists' supervision?

Yes, after Israel confiscated the dangerous stuff like chocolate and crayons..
But the intentions of the floitilla was made clear from the start..
They wanted to break the illegal blockade imposed by Israel..

BTW, you seem to have missed my other posts..

reply to post by Eliad

Looking at the videos, and knowing the IDF, I believe the IDF didn't shoot prior to boarding.

What, knowing the IDF I'm surprised they didn't just open fire from the choppers or gun boats aka USS Liberty..

reply to post by backinblack

Yeah, sorry, I missed one of your earlier posts..

That's another thing I don't understand- Why won't they release the frikkin' videos?!

You're right, it is suspicious, but even if they do release the videos and they do show Israel's innocence, people would claim they held back, edited, etc etc...

There is this though, smuggled out by the activists and released online-



36:00- Israeli boats armed with paint guns get stun grenades thrown at them.

39:17- A reporter confirms no live fire has been shot from the boats.

40:13- "Sniper red dot" shown to be just wandering around one spot for no reason, no shots are heard, and sniper rifles don't even have red dots anyway.

41:40- Israeli commando descend, no shots fired yet.

42:09- Activists in some kind of futile attempt to attack the helicopter.

42:50- First shot?

43:15- Second shot?

So it seems like they didn't shoot (if you find something that I've missed that suggests otherwise, please bring it up). Also you get to see all the wounded people, etc, you get to see the activists waiting for the soldiers with metal bars.. You get to see some of what went on..

Combine that with the live feed and you'd get a good picture of what happened the first ten-twenty minutes.

And honestly, I've served in the IDF, I've served in the West Bank, I can tell you for a fact, the Israeli army does not look to kill civilians, when we were in the West Bank we were not allowed to shoot at anyone even if we thought we were fired upon to prevent the chance of some idiot soldier hearing a noise and shooting at someone.

It's just not like you imagine it, it just isn't.

reply to post by Eliad


There's too much video and information missing to come to a conclusion of who started the attack..

As for this,

It's just not like you imagine it, it just isn't.

Sorry Eliad but to me the USS Liberty is an open and shut case..
Sad thing is the US was involved as well though that doesn't make the IDF firing on a friendly, practically unarmed ship any less criminal...

reply to post by mutante


It does not take half a brain to judge which side would have more causalities....

Israelis had guns... So it is obvious to a mentally stable person that the blows the Israelis land would be fatal.

I think they should have opened fire on the entire bunch of them.. You hit me with a pipe, I am taking your head off.. period!

reply to post by Resurrectio

I think they should have opened fire on the entire bunch of them.. You hit me with a pipe, I am taking your head off.. period!

What, even the ones with video cameras or standing back doing nothing??
How brave of you.

reply to post by Eliad


They disarmed the commandos, threw some of the weapons overboard, but did take a pistol, not sure where that went, no shots fired. Lynching? they took the subdued commandos below deck then gave them medical aid. all of this is on video if you take the time to watch it, not the edited MsM, i mean the entire raw footage starting before the attack and going right through to the point where commandos are shooting through a door.

Also international waters and the ships were inspected before they left port and to this day, no weapons, just random crap you'd find on a ship.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Eliad

 

Looking at the videos, and knowing the IDF, I believe the IDF didn't shoot prior to boarding.

What, knowing the IDF I'm surprised they didn't just open fire from the choppers or gun boats aka USS Liberty..

Actually some people on board claim just that.

P.S. no one snipes from a helicopter at sea, red dots are sub machine guns, they boarded with paint guns, then opened fire when they met with resistance. Israelis get up beside one of the ships and start tossing flash bangs over, one of which bounces back down and explodes in the IDF ship, which they tried to blame on the activists, yet it's all on camera.

Lets recap.

International waters
IDF has guns
Activists had food, medical equipment, crayons, and pieces of wood.

Yup, even fight there. I suppose the footage of the American being killed is faked too? (you don't see it, but the activists claim that's when Faruk got it.)

reply to post by backinblack


No... Obviously i meant the attackers.. But I see the logic.. because I dont crucify Israel for the flotilla boarding, I must be a monster willing to kill innocent people.. Again, the black cloud of agreeing with Israel on ANYTHING has over shadowed my posts yet again.

reply to post by phishybongwaters


Can I ask why you left out the Pipes/Knives/chains and various other weapons? If I look throuhg your posts, will I find any mention of MSM propaganda? Or spinning facts? It would be interesting to find out your were nothing more than that you accuse others of being... Laughable, yet pathetic all at once.. Star for your incredible ignorance!

reply to post by Resurrectio


anyone who has spent any time on ships will know that chains are common place, knives have all kinds of uses and pipes could come from anywhere, i have knives in my kitchen and if an uzi wielding maniac came barging in my house then i would probably kill him if he didnt kill me first.

reply to post by backinblack


But at the critical moments of the attack it's all there... It's uncut (or mostly uncut), and there is definitely no shooting prior to the commandos' descent.. You can immediately tell when the first shots are fired..

What other possibility is there? Silencers, maybe... But then we'd see paint chipping off, and bullet holes.. But there aren't any.. I don't think the boats fired on the ship, it's just very unlikely looking at the videos..

But let's assume for the sake of argument that they were shot at from the choppers with silencers- Why are people standing on the deck in the open? They are being shot at from helicopters, which they can't reach, why are they just standing there?

You honestly don't have any doubts about the activists' version?

As for the USS Liberty- I don't know much about that (Wiki says it was an attempt to blow the ship up by mistake), but there are always singular events that are out of the ordinary... You can't take the exception and treat it as the rule..

reply to post by lewman


A more appropriate analogy is that your house is a motor home and you're trying to ram it through a border checkpoint, and after being warned that you will be boarded, a man does board your home, not with an Uzi, but with a paintball gun.

Would you still grab a knife and jump him?

reply to post by phishybongwaters

They disarmed the commandos, threw some of the weapons overboard, but did take a pistol, not sure where that went, no shots fired.

They first overpowered the commandos, and it seems as though they were beating them up to do so.

But why didn't they use the guns? If they didn't mean to kill or badly hurt the soldiers why were they beating them up so bad? Why did they throw them overboard? Did things go crazy in the heat of the moment?

And what did they expect the IDF to do once they completely overpower the commandos? Turn around and let them go to Gaza?

Lynching? they took the subdued commandos below deck then gave them medical aid.

You mean threw them to the deck below, right?

Look, they jumped the commandos, they beat them up with chains and metal bars, the live feed shows that much... You want to argue semantics? Fine, they weren't lynched, they were badly hurt by a mob of people with knives and metal bars.

all of this is on video if you take the time to watch it, not the edited MsM, i mean the entire raw footage starting before the attack and going right through to the point where commandos are shooting through a door.

Shooting through a door? Where can I find this video?

Also international waters and the ships were inspected before they left port and to this day, no weapons, just random crap you'd find on a ship.

Random crap, yes, but the fact that knives, chains and metal rods are random crap doesn't make them any less of a weapon, does it?

What, you can't kill someone with a kitchen knife?

P.S. no one snipes from a helicopter at sea, red dots are sub machine guns

Probably, the fact that they're not aimed at anything suggests that they weren't shot prior to boarding.

Israelis get up beside one of the ships and start tossing flash bangs over, one of which bounces back down and explodes in the IDF ship

Agreed, also possible.

Yup, even fight there. I suppose the footage of the American being killed is faked too? (you don't see it, but the activists claim that's when Faruk got it.)

You analyze it, what do you see? Is there a muzzle flash? Any recoil? Is there a magazine in the gun? Is it even an M4 like some suggest? What do *you* see?

reply to post by Eliad

And what did they expect the IDF to do once they completely overpower the commandos? Turn around and let them go to Gaza?

What? Are you saying ALL the commandoes were overpowered??

Anyway, It doesn't matter..
Israel PLANNED the entire assault to create maximum confusion..
They used that confusion to KILL activists...

There is NO other explanation for why Israel attacked the boat in darkness..
A peacefull boarding would obviously have been more successfull in daylight..
That's common sense so please don't make excuses for Israel by saying it was simply bad planning..
Israel rarely does something without a reason..
IMO, they achieved the desired result..

reply to post by Eliad


depends on whether or not that paintball gun wielding uzi carrying man had just decided that his nations border was in my back garden or maybe my freinds back garden, i might not kill him but he would certainly get a few holes in his abdomin if that was the case.

reply to post by backinblack

Anyway, It doesn't matter.. Israel PLANNED the entire assault to create maximum confusion.. They used that confusion to KILL activists...

Could be, or they could have planned to just take over the ship by pepper spraying and paint balling a bunch of rioters.
Confusion is good, confusion means it'd be easier to take over the ship.

There is NO other explanation for why Israel attacked the boat in darkness..

The darkness gives the Israeli soldiers an advantage over anyone trying to stop them from taking over the ship, does that necessarily mean they planned on killing everyone?

A peacefull boarding would obviously have been more successfull in daylight..

I don't think they were planning on it being peaceful...

IMO, they achieved the desired result..

That's also an option, I agree, kill a few activists, deter anyone else from trying to break the blockade, but not all facts point to that conclusion.. Those commandos that came down first *were* overpowered, beaten up, and taken below deck...

What would you think is happening to a soldier who was dragged below deck by an angry mob?
A) He's currently being gutted.
B) He's receiving medical treatment.
And you have about 2 seconds to think, as you're surrounded by the same angry mob.

Can you really blame them for opening fire in a situation like that?

Not all facts support your hypothesis, and you have to admit there are other logical explanations..

Why can't you just watch the raw video and tell me when you hear the first shots being fired?

reply to post by lewman


Alright then, so the knife isn't used in self defense, but rather in an act of defiance to that guy's decision to take over your friend's back yard.

That's exactly what happened.

reply to post by Eliad

Not all facts support your hypothesis, and you have to admit there are other logical explanations..

Why can't you just watch the raw video and tell me when you hear the first shots being fired?

Not all the facts support Israel's view of events either..

I will watch the vid though I have probably already seen it.
However, how do we know what we hear is the first shoot?
Even you say the film is not complete..

reply to post by lewman



Don't be silly, or intentionally misleading. Have you not seen the video, shot shortly before and during the raid? It shows these items being prepared to use as weapons. Now, you specifically went to this part of my post. You specifically pointed out the many uses of these items. This is perceived as implying that these items were "just there.." You are either intentionally misleading with your statement, or you simply have not seen the video.

Don't go jumping to another subject... Lets go over this part.. I implied that the activists had weapons, such as Knives/Pipes/Chains. Your response was to tell me how common place all of these items would be.. I didn't say that they didn't find them on the ship..

Lets summarize.. Another poster pointed out that the activists were "unarmed".. I then implied that they did have weapons.. You then tell me how common place and the many uses of said items...

So........?? My correction of his statement is correct. They had these weapons.. You help me out, and describe where these are found on a ship or why they would be on a ship.

I guess I should thank you for providing the origin and or many uses on a ship.

But you and I both know your post was only meant to somehow some twisted may defend the "unarmed" statement.

Israel does enough crap, no need for people to be exaggerating and fabricating negative things about them.