Revelation; Babylon's Wake

Originally posted by St Udio
What the hell is : 'Babylon's Wake
other than a seductive thread title...
'Disraeli'...your are....over the course of time....revealing secret yourself

This chapter is an oration at Babylon's funeral.
My dictionary has for "wake";"Watch by corpse before burial, lamentations and merry-making in connection with it". As far as I can tell, a perfectly chosen word.
What secret do you think I'm revealing?

Originally posted by St Udio
yey,
PIT vs. GB...just as forecast

Can this be translated, please?

reply to post by DISRAELI


I am putting these books in the context of our current situation (or else they are just fairy tales)

and hoping that we will have a funeral for Babylon soon, I never thought of wake in this sense in this context but I love the idea I was thinking 'wake 'as in aftermath sorta the same but not really

would love to believe that after 6000 years there this would end

as for Nebuchadnezzar that thread of the story always interested me now I'm rethinking I'll go back and read it again now

And this was a warning addressed to Jerusalem, because of her infidelity.
It serves as a reminder that such features of "Babylon" as selfishly motivated control, economic exploitation, and idolatry, can also be found amongst those who are nominally part of God's people.

A number of passages in Revelation contain back-references to the times in the Old Testament when the God of Israel was threatening judgement against his own people.
I was commenting on this (with special reference to ch6) in the attached discussion;
The sins of the church?
As I said at the time, there are two ways of looking at this, and there may be an element of truth in both of them.

In the first place, there is the possibility that injustice, corruption, and idolatry are to be found within the visible church, so that the visible church is counted as unfaithful and brought under the wrathful judgement which affects the rest of the world.

At the same time, there is another factor which can explain these allusions, as I suggested in that thread;

With the coming of Christ, God's claim to recognition and worship is extended from Israel to the world at large. As Paul said in Acts ch17 v30;
"The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent".
In that case, the charge of unfaithfulness and idolatry, which was historically directed against Israel themselves, can be extended. It can become part of his indictment against the world at large.

reply to post by MrsBlonde

Yes, Nebuchadnezzar is typical of the pride of power, so very relevant.

If Babylon is to be a city, then China would be the best target, when globalisation hits its peak as more corporations move there. I only pity the innocent chinese masses, unaware and kept in the dark by the ruling illegitimate CCP govt.

Americans, suffering and poor as they are soon to be, should be glad and heave a sigh of relief, that their millstone had been removed with the corporations departure. The wrath of our Creator, in order to answer to the cries of billions, dead and alive, seeking for justice, will be where the evil corporations, whom had tyrannised His children, are stationed.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
If Babylon is to be a city, then China would be the best target, when globalisation hits its peak as more corporations move there.

I don't see anything against that idea.
One of my conclusions in an earlier thread was that Babylon would, amongst other things, represent the capital of a ruling power, relating to the Beast in the way that Rome the city related to Rome the empire.
And I've also pointed out before that these characters are not necessarily to be found in the present time, when the U.S. is dominant.
In fact I see reason to expect a great world-crisis first (as described in ch6), which could create the opportunity for another power to take over.

reply to post by DISRAELI


For the more conventionally conspiracy minded, this Babylon episode is in fact what the story of Operation Blackjack is describing: London, New York, Toronto, Mexico City, Los Angeles, and Portland getting nuked on 12-21-12. There's a mystery capital city not named that also gets hit - my guess would be Rome, as that one would give the whole "game" away.

reply to post by jcrash

Yes, I remember the hoax thread relating to "Blackjack" in spring 2010.

Originally posted by jontap
you put a lot of work into this, but honestly its all just fairy tale. hate to say it but it is.

Are you offering this critique from a rationalist standpoint?
Or have you fixed your allegiance on an alternative fairy tale?

reply to post by jontap

you put a lot of work into this, but honestly its all just fairy tale. hate to say it but it is.

But fairy tales are written and told for the life lessons that can be passed on through the illustration of story telling.

Mostly, I'm responding to your post so that the thread shows up in 'My ATS' and so OP knows I'm reading the thread. Sorry, I just used you.

Disraeli: I'll be looking forward to that index. I don't usually read Revelation because it seems to have been written for the benefit of a very specific sect of early Christians, which I don't identify with. However, as long as Christianity is one of the major religious influences in the world, with many attempting to guide their lives primarily based on various interpretations of Revelation, I suppose I should consider it a legitimate subject for understanding motives and consequences.

reply to post by St Udio

the king (nebuchadnezzar), was also used as an example of a future antichrist...but the Neb dude
actually changed his ways & his heart for awhile---before becoming a mindless domesticated animal

Actually, Nebuchadnezzar didn't finally learn his lesson until after he did his time as a beast. I don't think he was the model for false messiahs at all, actually. I think Solomon and Herod fit the model more appropriately.
www.abovetopsecret.com... Shameless plug for my thread.

Originally posted by pthena
Disraeli: I'll be looking forward to that index.

In that case I'll make sure to give you an alert on the day when it's being published.
Thank you for your interest.

I may need to don my asbestos suit for this post...

There is one seldom-mentioned link from ancient Babylon to the modern world: the Babylonian Talmud. I believe that when Revelation speaks of Babylon, it is referring to the whole belief system and power structure which is based on the Babylonian Talmud. There is also the less-well-known Jerusalem Talmud. When one pairs this information up with Rev. 2:9, one has the key which unlocks that part of the mystery.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Thank you for that contribution.
I think you've added another detail to the jigsaw.
Including this one, I did five different threads on "the harlot of Babylon", because I found her such a complicated individual.
In one of them- "The other woman", I think- I observed that the church of John's time quite possibly identified the Harlot with the Jewish community of their own time, though this is not the same thing as saying that we should be making the same identification now.

Oh yes, and "The seven churches have been warned, pt1" includes my take on that verse from ch2.

Very informative. I see a lot of your take is along the same lines as mine has been. However, today, I decided to do some considerable research back to the original Babylon, I figured if we can find out what she was all about then, maybe it will shed some light on what she is now, or more or less, has become.

Needless to say...I had the strangest realization. She IS confusion. In other words; she is meant to retain this shroud of mystery so to speak, no one can ever really pin down where she is, how she is, or who or what. Because she is God's Prophecy of confusion and honestly, much like what you have stated, she is a result of our own rebellion, disobedience and idolatry. Just consider for a moment how many various commentaries and personal interpretations there are with respect to the beast and the harlot? I actually found one that was dated 1919, and I'm sure there are many that go back even further, each one a personal interpretation which has lead to many years off now mass confusion and mystery regarding "particularly" Revelation 13 and the harlot. This is why we can never fully come to the truth, it's just like the prophecy states "many will WONDER" after the beast. We are constantly in wonder, with every new thing happening in the world and any new perspective regarding this prophecy.

Do you get what I'm trying to say? It's God who has done this; because He knew we would do what we have done, rather than just reading the Bible, praying and believing or/and trusting Him, we've become trapped in the same place over and over "wondering after the beast"...

We have to move past it, overcome it. This too is what the prophecy say's.

Do I make any sense?? You thoughts are greatly appreciated and respected.
Maymunah

reply to post by Maymunah
I will have to think about this, but my first reaction is that there's a lot to be said for it.
As I kept saying in the various threads, I was finding her a complex creature.
One aspect of the Harlot seems to be that she's an entity involved, or at least participating in, active persecution.
So in that respect, she's more than a state of mind, and dealing with her involves endurance.
There was another member, thegoodearth, who was going to contribute their own thoughts on this theme, but hasn't logged in since the end of January.

reply to post by DISRAELI


I had hoped you'd consider it, ponder on the possibility. As I was sitting here It came to my mind the parable about the ten virgins..you know this one? I don't think it's a fluke that it has to do strictly with the Word/oil and lamp and buying and selling.You stated before about the number ten too and the meaning, so it's not just ten literal virgins. I believe it's those who keep their lamps lit and carry the oil as opposed to those who also have lamps but are missing the oil and told to go and buy from those that sell..."GODS WORD". I understand we are not paying for various opinions and views; but in a sense we are. The price is much higher than any monetary value that's for sure when you think of the possibility that our faith is at stake.

You are right, it's not a persecution as we think..but in a sense too it is. The beheading could very well be the removing of the testimony of the eye witnesses, John, Mark, Matthew, Luke and so on...and taking some other persons view when the truth is there in front of our own eyes.

Perhaps we've just lost the simplicity of things regarding Jesus and the Bible because we are so overloaded with this increase of knowledge?

Read over it again, and if you have it memorized (The Bible) remember...the passages and how they are so concentrated around God's Word. I think you will see what I'm seeing, at least I hope so, or someone will.

God be with you.

Originally posted by Maymunah
reply to post by DISRAELI

 

I had hoped you'd consider it, ponder on the possibility...

You stated before about the number ten too and the meaning, so it's not just ten literal virgins. I believe it's those who keep their lamps lit and carry the oil as opposed to those who also have lamps but are missing the oil and told to go and buy from those that sell..."GODS WORD".

I'm certainly considering it. I like the basic thought, as a way of getting at the essence of the Harlot.
At the same time, the way I'm approaching this book involves seeing in it a description of future events, and I don't like to see that element disappear, with interpretations that bring it down to an allegorocal description of the present state of the world. To me, the shedding of blood has to be about people getting killed.

I think that insight about the virgins is very useful.
In some of these threads I'm talking about the church splitting, at a future time, into "faithful" ("the woman in heaven) and "unfaithful (the Harlot) portions- a division which would probably be completely clear only in the sight of God. Your comments about the two groups of virgins could very well be applied to those two portions, and could say something about the reason why the division takes place.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Thanks Disraeli for you response and consideration. I've been doing some more pondering and study into this. Actually it seems to have become a little bit of an obsession on my part over the years, perhaps God plants people into studying deeper into certain subjects and places in His Word...or maybe we are in the time or nearing the time of "understanding"?

Anyway, Although I still think what I was seeing was a part of her (after all she is filled with much!) I think I may have found another clue in the Bible which I had not seen you mention:

Revelation 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

In Revelation 13 he say's:
Revelation 13:2
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

So according to the Bible...the beast's is seated in a church; thus the Harlot her self must be a church/ or religion right? I have some more things to add but I want your thoughts first