Judge finds hurdles to helping young victims of sex trafficking

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
reply to post by JR MacBeth

 

:::slow clap:::

But we can't live our reality on "what ifs...." At some point, we have to have concrete proof of what we suspect, otherwise we are simply on a witch hunt by which the innocent are also sacrificed.

Finally, history has also proven that when the powerful become too corrupt, the common man revolts and balance is restored. Every powerful society - whether government or not - goes through such a cycle.

CIAGyspsy (interesting name...), you seem perhaps young (maybe it's your cool avatar), and to your credit, you are idealistic.

I will suggest that as you get older, sadly, that idealism will quite likely give way to something more realistic, as you continue to discover the dark places in our world, hopefully without the necessity of anything too personal, or painful.

My post wasn't really about "what if's", perhaps read it again. Everything I mentioned about what goes on is more or less generally accepted, although you specifically mention you reject portions, based on your "experience".

Let me quote you from one of your posts further up: ...secrecy doesn't exist.

Well, you are on ATS, you have put yourself into a very tiny minority then, if you believe that!

Ever hear of "black budgets"? No, I'm not talking about our president. Seriously, you must have meant something else, because "secrecy" exists EVERYWHERE. I would guess that you have a few secrets yourself.

Finally, you have much to learn about history. No, I don't want to destroy your blind faith in the "common man", and his ability to revolt (I think that all we commoners suffer from that "common" illusion). I would ask you to consider first the possibility that those in power have been in power for a very long time, and second that by your logic this would indicate that they are therefore "not too corrupt".

Actually, "not too logical"...

JR

reply to post by Epiphron


it may also be part of a policy of control by dominance of field....

The logic I was told would be this... to control an industry (ies) you have to be in the market... otherwise people will just restart elsewhere... but if you control the industry you set the standards...

Example would be the drug trade...

Which would be more effiecient...

elminate all the drug lords and more pop up...

start your own don and help him eliminate your competition... You at that point control supply, market, and a key point of barriers to entry


good find... good find...

Originally posted by CIAGypsy

Originally posted by Skippy1138

Do some research on the film "Conspiracy Of Silence" or Project Monarch- you might be surprised....

With all due respect, I know all about Project Monarch. However, I believe that 99% of what is freely available on the internet about it is pure BS. I do believe it existed. I even believe they tested on children. However, I don't believe it is on-going to this day or that it is everything people claim about it. Why do I feel this way? Oh, maybe because I have spent the better part of 10 years doing research in neurology and biophysics. I know what the human brain is capable of and what it isn't. People often misconstrue the capabilities of the mind because it seems plausible to their untrained intellect and because it makes for good & exciting fiction.

I see a lot of pro-conspiracy people use references to PM as some sort of unilateral proof of a lot of things - assassins, illuminati, and now....prostituting children. What I don't see is irrefutable proof that these things are connected. Sure, I think there are some incidents that can be connect to PM, especially in the 50's and 60's. But I don't see anything that we can tie to it today or even in the last 2 decades.

Occam's razor, man...

Sorry to disagree. Skippy knows what he's talking about. The Franklin case showed that this went to the highest ranks of government. The Conspiracy of Silence was pulled the day it was to air.


This is not cospiracy. It happened
Here is one Washington Times headline.

MK-ULTRA is ongoing no matter what the name.

They funnel thousands of children into it.

There is plenty of evidence this is ongoing forced prostitution and child sex also:
cia involved in child sex trade
cia-involved-in-child-sex-trade-since-1978

The pentagon & congress are well aware of child sex traffic going on with contractors also:

Chicago Tribune Article:

A proposal prohibiting defense contractor involvement in human trafficking for forced prostitution and labor was drafted by the Pentagon last summer, but five defense lobbying groups oppose key provisions and a final policy still appears to be months away, according to those involved and Defense Department records.

The lobbying groups opposing the plan say they're in favor of the idea in principle, but said they believe that implementing key portions of it overseas is unrealistic. They represent thousands of firms, including some of the industry's biggest names, such as DynCorp International and Halliburton subsidiary KBR, both of which have been linked to trafficking-related concerns.

To say the US government and the CIA are not aware and not involved in an untenable position.

reply to post by pianopraze


what is worse is if you really think this has has very dangerous implications...


Look at enders game...

child soldiers are not new to history.... The sex oart might even be a partial ruse... To create and conrol the next gen of military is an awesome power... you win... why 99% could not fight off your soldiers...

yall have made this thread a lot more interesting...

It started off as a judge trying to help victims recover from abuse...

To trying to track the sources and prevent those abuses and what else they may be tied to...

yeah ATS

reply to post by CIAGypsy


And the reason the "good people" don't talk about it, is because of the puritanical demonization of all people in the sex industry. it's the assumption that everyone there is not only doing it because they are a willing and shallow pervert, but also that they are just inherently "bad" people who deserve everything they get. It's a totally wrongheaded approach to reality - most of the men and women working under a pimp are not there of their own free will, but through coercion and fear, even if they are not the sort of slaves this article focuses on.

reply to post by JR MacBeth


response deleted because I posted too much personal information that I should not be sharing.

My apologies....

Oh, and btw, the avatar is very similar to my look IRL (minus the pink & purple streaks )

...so I want to thank you for that compliment too!

reply to post by CIAGypsy


You seem to be saying that because you know people in government, and that none of them you've met are pedophiles, that therefore there can't be any such thing.That would be like me saying "Well, I don't personally know any astronauts, therefore astronauts can't possibly exist...."
And you brought up budgets and money: well, I really don't think they're going to have a line item at the budget meeting that says "$2000 expenditure for sex with Little Johnny"- it would be paid for out of they're own pocket....

Originally posted by Skippy1138
You seem to be saying that because you know people in government, and that none of them you've met are pedophiles, that therefore there can't be any such thing.That would be like me saying "Well, I don't personally know any astronauts, therefore astronauts can't possibly exist...."

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that I have had regular contact with various organizations which several have said operate these networks as part of a structured underground organization. I'm saying that having been part of these organizations from different levels - including inside them - I can tell you that these "networks" don't exist as part of the structure. That's not to say that you can't have isolated pockets of criminals who happen to have government jobs (or work in law enforcement) operating their own little network. But it is not a concerted and organized empire that some are making it out to be. That's what I'm saying.

Originally posted by Skippy1138
And you brought up budgets and money: well, I really don't think they're going to have a line item at the budget meeting that says "$2000 expenditure for sex with Little Johnny"- it would be paid for out of they're own pocket....

Then you obviously know next to nothing about the wealthy and government beaurocrats. They pay for NOTHING on their own. That's one of the "secrets" of wealth...you ALWAYS get someone else to pay for it.

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
[That's not to say that you can't have isolated pockets of criminals who happen to have government jobs (or work in law enforcement) operating their own little network.

Well that part we can agree on...

However, with all due respect, not everyone who is a government employee knows everything the government is doing or what everybody else in government is doing-it's called "compartmentalization"- just my opinion...

reply to post by CIAGypsy

I disagree with your assessment of Occam's razor. Perhaps I disagree because I have many acquaintances among the groups of people - corporate, political, and academic - whom you denigrate. I have been around these people for decades since I was a girl and have never ever ever seen anything remotely suspect about any of them outside of extramarital affairs, possibly doing coke and/or marijuana, and maybe a few who took bribes for contracts. But child trafficking and/or child rape??? Nope...never once. The only people I've seen or heard who do this **** is thugs. And yes, I know quite a bit about it. I used to work with a charity called Stepping Stones Nigeria. Children in Nigeria were being publicly executed as witches. Horrible tortures taking place. Once we dug into the reality of the situation, we learned that it was simply child traffickers who were praying upon the superstitions of the locals to separate the children from their families as outcasts. That way when the traffickers took them, there would be nobody who would come looking! Don't believe me? Look it up yourself.... And these traffickers were working through the protestant churches!

Well of course as you say, many child trafficking may well be just thugs, who for whatever backward reason do what they do. However, there is an entire economy attached to people. A baby boy in China will cost you 3,000 dollars, in the event of a natural disaster they sell for around 500 to 1,000, frightning but thats how it is. I could buy an Asian kid for 500 dollars, smuggle him to Europe, sell it for ten times that[European children command a far higher value], head to South America, buy 25 kilos of coc aine at 200 dollars a kilo. Head back to Europe selling it for 70,000 dollars a kilo. The economic potential is ridiculous and certainly not wasted on those in the underworld.

On an international level however there seems to be elements of highly orginised, extremely sophisticated underworld orginizations involved in the trafficing of children, much of it originating from the "mafia" states in eastern europe and the balkans.

Now being that the case, i should have probably specified who i was infact denigrating, these mafia states are essentialy ran by terrorists, ex paramilitary and mafia style orginizations, they are supported by Western NGO;s, politicians and corporations, more often than not, they have close ties to the defence/intelligence industry. These are not people you will ever meet, not people i will ever meet, it is in there best interests to remain anonymous while they stage world affairs. Eastern europe is a funny place, it is THE key drug/energy corridor from Europe to Asia, it is essentialy the Silk Road, controling it has vast geo political implications.

Perhaps it is a case those in power of our western nations, simply turn a blind eye to those states in what they do, as long as when the time comes they are ready to our bidding. However it strikes me, based upon the wests track record with involvement in highly illegal activities they are no doubt entirely complicit in all actions those mafia states take part in. I struggle to understand why they dabble in such amoral activity, however crime does pay for lack of a better phrase, and i very much doubt it is cheap to rent a nation from the CIA, no doubt a lot of money will essentialy need to be kickd back to those who placed you in power or you will more than likely be planed crashed.

Its not really something you could prove either way, like i know people will say ZOMG SENATORS LIKE TOTALY LUV 12 YEAR OLDZ ILLUMINATI ZOMGZOMGZOMG, there is not one shred of proof for it. However an educated cause, IMO suggests it probably does happen, along with a lot of other wicked # we will never know about.

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
reply to post by JR MacBeth

 

response deleted because I posted too much personal information that I should not be sharing.

My apologies....

edit on 23-1-2011 by CIAGypsy because: (no reason given)

I am incredibly sorry for your pain and understand the depths of hurt inexpressible.

A MK asset is chosen because they have the ability to disassociate. If accurate you do not dissociate or do not realize you do. I do not understand how anyone who has been through such things would not dissociate... so maybe the ability is not universally expressed. Yet electroshock brings amnesia and makes you feel like floating like a butterfly - anyone so traumatized posses purged memories.

Your profile indicates through deduction one of those you do not list. The other can be speculated upon from there.

Again, my deepest sympathies - apply as acceptable or deny as needed.

reply to post by pianopraze


piano,

Nothing to be sorry for. I am not sorry for any part of my life. In fact, I am GLAD FOR IT. It has made me a survivor of the rarest type.

Furthermore, your post is cleverly worded in such a way that any response I could give would be meaningless. I cannot accept because it would not be the truth (and I do NOT say this from a position of denial or ignorance)....and if I deny, then you will only say that I am ignorant of what you perceive to be my reality.

So I am damned either way and it solves nothing in regards to this discussion.

The real tragedy is that you appear to have missed the most important point of the post....that being a unique but strong understanding of why and how these networks do not exist in the way you want to believe. One string of truth in a web of lies and misdirection.

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
reply to post by pianopraze

 

piano,

Nothing to be sorry for. I am not sorry for any part of my life. In fact, I am GLAD FOR IT. It has made me a survivor of the rarest type.

Furthermore, your post is cleverly worded in such a way that any response I could give would be meaningless. I cannot accept because it would not be the truth (and I do NOT say this from a position of denial or ignorance)....and if I deny, then you will only say that I am ignorant of what you perceive to be my reality.

So I am damned either way and it solves nothing in regards to this discussion.

The real tragedy is that you appear to have missed the most important point of the post....that being a unique but strong understanding of why and how these networks do not exist in the way you want to believe. One string of truth in a web of lies and misdirection.

gypsy,

I am glad you found strength through your experience. Quintessential wisdom inculcated.

hmmm.... the meaning of your expression cannot be overturned by any expression of mine. Such postulates pose psychological reversals I refuse to propagate - redoubled including the "cleverly worded" and "damned" propositions. Psychological reversal indicate intended or subconscious control mechanisms. Abusive relationships (personal or institution) foster climates where such defense (or offense) mechanisms become necessity. I pose mental threat only to your argument positions, not person. Please refrain and I will as well.

Because you deleted the post I will halt discussing any issues it pertained, but certain statements suggest aspects you might not consciously realize or intend to represent. But as you say, your reality is your reality regardless of what anyone else believes. *subject dropped*

I do not pretend to understand how all the organizations named or unnamed interconnect. But I research and study. If/when I present what I know you can judge the veracity of my beliefs/evidence. I will give you a chance, shortly. Please refrain beforehand.

Also you have a certain experience and level of knowledge of these organizations. I served as an Army Linguist possessing a SCI TS security clearance. Any information I know would be radically different from others. Compartmentalization is the name of the game as you WELL know according to your resume. And it has been repeatedly shown that "the lie is different at every level." Not presupposing a lie, one organization you belong to has a well crafted tradition of illustrating said postulate.

I CAN trace threads such as Michael Aquino: a 1.) US Army Psy-Ops officer convicted of pedophilia on the Presidio of Monterey, 2.) founder of the Temple of Set ( 3.) friend of Anton La Vey founder of the Church of Satan) through 4.) child slavery and prostitution rings in Boys Town/Franklin to 5.)having a position in the NSA. The Franklin prostitution ring provided boys for sex and destruction at the 6.) Bohemian Grove, 7.) MK-ULTRA and the 8.)"highest" level politicians.

The connections are there regardless of denials. CIA, U.S. Army, The Temple of Set, The Church of Satan, Bohemian Grove, MK-ULTRA, NSA, and "highest" level politicians... all connect to pedophilia, sex slavery and MK-ULTRA... all connected by one thread: Michael Aquino who is so black his name is repeatedly/immediately removed from wikipedia. (I can trace more but stopped at 8 for esoteric reasons with an implied joke/criticism).

That is ONE thread that I can show. There are numerous others I am in the process of studying.

Now I can fully accept a cabal of individuals rather than interconnection of agencies as, I believe, you previously suggested. Indeed, this is highly more likely. To address an unstated but often presented argument: I suggest no interconnection with Blue Lodge Masonry outside said individual connections.

reply to post by pianopraze


*much obliged*



army linguist, eh? statement analysis can be invaluable in this field. Very few people are competent at it, but one recognizes another.

reply to post by CIAGypsy


I am actively forgetting Korean from the Army...

as well as Greek from college, and Spanish and German from high school.

안녕하세요. 반갑습니다.
자는 이년 동안 육군으로 한국말을 공부했어요.
안녕히 계세요.

To stay on topic I will add:
Here is an excerpt showing Michael Aquino was involved in the Franklin incident referenced above:

Monarch Project

The horrendous Monarch Project "refers to young people in America
who were victims of mind control experiments run either by U.S.
government agencies such as the Central Intelligence Agency or
military intelligence agencies," writes DeCamp. "The story told by
Monarch victims--one of whom was Paul Bonacci--is that they were
tortured for the purpose of creating 'multiple personalities'
within them," DeCamp continues from his book. "These multiple
personalities could then be programmed--as spies, 'drug mules,'
prostitutes or assassins."

An article by Anton Chaitkin, quoted in the book, states that
"professionals probing the child victims of 'Monarch' say there are
clearly two responsible elements at work: the government/military,
and cooperating satanic (or more exactly pagan) cults. These are
multi-generation groups, whose parents donate their own
children--who are proudly called 'bloodline' or simply 'blood'
cultists--to be smashed with drugs and electric shock and shaped.
Other children are kidnapped and sold into this hell, or are
brought in gradually through day care situations.

"Paul Bonacci and other child victims have given evidence in great
depth on the central role of Lt. Col. Michael Aquino in this
depravity," continues Chaitkin. "Aquino, alleged to have recently
retired from an active military role, was long the leader of an
Army psychological warfare section which drew on his 'expertise'
and personal practices in brainwashing, Satanism, Nazism,
homosexual pedophilia and murder." DeCamp's victory in court and
the million dollar judgement is a vindication of mind control
survivors Paul Bonacci, Alisha Owens and others who were falsely
imprisoned to keep them from testifying against their abusers.

Monarch is just one of the more recent names for MK-ULTRA. It is also known as Bluebird and Artichoke. Notice that even though he's "out of the military" he is still using military bases:

I know that Michael Aquino has been in
Iowa. I know that Michael Aquino has been to Offutt Air Force Base
[described by numerous victims as a center of mind control-ritual
abuse]. I know that he had contact with many of these children."

link
Source book

There is more info in the Conspiracy of Silence video. Again, this is all documented history, not conspiracy.

You know, I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but those who peddle sex slaves, particularly when said slaves are young people, sorely vex me.

reply to post by pianopraze


sending you a PM

reply to post by pianopraze


Have you thought of doing a mk ultra thread...

I would very interesting in reading it...


you do have a mastery of words it seems...

reply to post by CIAGypsy


Sorry got busy with other things... I am responding to your last one for all of them...


I do not know how to word this I am going to spit it out...

I am not trying to suggest, just start a thread of thoughts...

If you went evil tommorow could you hide it all... as it is now.. and collect the favors in the process?