I want to believe, but you people make it really difficult.

Good thread, I also feel the same way.

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings


Thank you for the clarification, and I did not think you thought (heh) I was a liar.

I just was worried that I was seeing an unfounded rumor being pushed (ATS is mean to "believers")

Humans are mean to humans

I am a believer. I have never seen an alien but I have seen a UFO. Was it alien? Who knows, it was just unidentified.

I read everything on aliens and ufos and visitation I could find online. It always brought me to ATS which is why I eventually joined. The series "Ancient Aliens" honestly didn't tell me too much of anything I hadn't already read either on ATS or other such sites. It was nice to see these people I have read about on tv discussing their theories and beliefs. Some I agree with and others I don't. I actually had a few friends who watched the show come to me and ask me about the show knowing I use to talk about this stuff long before the series. It was nice to have other people I know aside from ATS to talk to. I never realized how many people I know that actually believe in aliens and not one has ever seen an alien. It seems the more I talk about it openly, the more people I tend to meet who seem to believe the same yet were afraid to say anything because they didn't want to be considered weird...me well I could careless

I got into aliens and ufos when I was a kid. Had some strange experiences and shows like "Unsolved Mysteries" really got me into it. I remember the Betty and Barney Hill story on "Unsolved Mysteries" and was really fascinated with the subject. I think that is my favorite case.

I just can't believe that we are the only living beings in this Universe. It is just a little insane imo and kind of selfish and egotystical to think we are the only things alive in this Universe or heck even others, which I do believe in. Just because we can't live on another planet somewhere doesn't mean something else hasn't adapted to it. I think there could be aliens that loook like us and who knows what else. Look at what lives in the deep parts of the sea people didn't think anything could live in those parts. I guess I have read enough to form my own opinions. I think two people can read the same thing and still come up with different reasons and thoughts on the material. Imo it's all about your own interpretation of what you have read or even experienced.

I'm finding this a VERY interesting thread - so thanks to the OP for posting it! I have to day, I agree with a lot of the questions you are posing. Sometimes I get very frustrated at how seemingly impossible it is to make any progress on this topic.

And to Zorgon - I love reading your contributions on this website. You seem extremely well-informed on this subject, and quite approachable. So can I just ask you straight out - what do you think is going on in this area? Are we being visited? Do the government know? Is there contact, or are we just being observed from afar? And has there been contact for millenia? Do we have alien technology? And what about some of the more extreme areas within the UFO field - like abductions, hybrids, time travelling and an american air force squadron specialising in space defence? (So many questions....!)

I'd love to hear your thoughts, or if you have written about these things before, I'd be grateful if you could direct me to your threads.

Personally, I think too much of the UFO field these days is about witness reports (ie a bright object was spotted by x amount of people on xth March.... blah blah blah). What is much more interesting to me is the motives involved. I think its time to move on from debating whether or not we are being visited, and start examining WHY they are here, and why it is being kept secret from the average man on the street.

Thanks,

John

I used to think that UFO's were total hogwash, and people that claimed to see one were bat# crazy, until I saw one with my own two eyes. Had I not, I would probably still carry that attitude, that is just the way my mind works.

I think the UFO field is in very dangerous slump due to technological progress. For example, in the past if a radar station detected a large object moving at ridiculous speeds, there were less possibilities. Nowadays though, we would have to wonder whether it was some form of top secret cutting edge air force technology. It is getting harder and harder to determine the criteria for what constitutes an 'unexplainable' UFO sighting. We are at the stage as a society where mind-blowing technology could easily be human in origin.

Likewise, in this day and age, digital cameras are so widespread, as are powerful home computers with sophisticated imaging software. So if I see a picture of a UFO these days, it is less meaningful. I can simply put it down to a forgery. In the past this was more difficult - as these things were easier to spot.

So where is the convincing evidence going to come from? The only areas left I can honestly think of are actual alien technology, or perhaps abductions / situations involving an actual encounter with an alien. And I don't know about you, but my instinct when I hear about such encounters is to dismiss them as utterly ridiculous!

I suppose my conclusion is a little bit depressing - but I think these issues mean that this is a very difficult time for the field of ufology.

reply to post by TKDRL


Your quote sums everything up here. A person can say, "I would like to believe you witnesses, I really would. So I watch UFO Hunters and read Friedman's books, and go to Conferences,......" But under their proverbial breath, they think, "But sometimes I think you';all are bat crap crazy." Well guess what? Who said you have to believe anyone? Until you see what is undeniably an anomalous (not ambiguous light) ufo, (like I have) you will always doubt. And stop talking about "Smoking Guns" and "Disclosure". These things might be phenomenon which cannot provide 'proof' to our Science'rs to our satisfaction, in this present time and place.

reply to post by Millions


Everytime I hear about a ufo video, the first thing I think is, "Oh it's probably another video trick." And there is advanced human tech around, causing "sightings."

One thing I have come to the realization of, is the fact that if UFO's are debunked, so is most of the way of life on Earth. Everything is built around the fact that it is us, and only us. Religion, Schools, Education, everything! UFO's being debunked would throw everything out of the "norm". As much as people would like to find the "truth", the real truth is the fact that people get paid or "taken out" to keep their mouths shut. Take this for example. What if "Aliens", were here to tell us that we were going to disappear like the Egyptians, Mayans, Neanderthals, or any others for that matter. What if they were here to give us a heed of warning? I don't think it would be taken "lightly" and it would cause mass panic, by all the people that "go about their normal everyday life" and don't even see 2 inches past their face. This is the reality of a lot of conspiracies. The government thinks they are helping, when in fact, people like us, the real thinkers, are saying, how can it be just us?

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I really do want to believe. I want to find evidence that simply is out of this world (literally) and conclude that extraterrestrials are indeed visiting (or visited) earth.

I came to ATS because I was very interested in the subject, and after watching a long video by John Lear being interviewed by project camelot, I found my way here (they badmouthed ATS...and figured if they were debunking this guys claims while remaining open about ETs in general, thats where I need to go).

So, you come here, you get excited whenever you see a ET thread..maybe this will finally be it, the smoking gun..the thing that will make me go from skeptical but hopeful to full fledged believer, tin foil hat wearing crystal swinging plejarian calling UFOnaut.

Yet daily and weekly, we get just misunderstood lights in the sky discussions, contrails called ETs, dodgy websites channeling lightships that never show up, booksellers trying to suggest they know something groundbreaking and smashing which never pans out to anything more than conjecture and hypotheticals taken as fact.

I have discovered far more from discoverys "ancient aliens" series than most stuff on ATS. Why is there such trouble bringing quality evidence forward..why is there such a religion of ETs verses a actual investigation on this board?

I want to believe...why are many of you "believers" making it soo difficult by tossing up nonsense...so much so that your chasing strong skeptics away and making the subject become less of an investigation and more of a really dumb religion.

And how do we change it..how do we get it back on the right track?

Saturn, you don't need ATS to find evidence of ET. You won't find it here. Stories of disinfo agents, disclosure, massive UFO cover ups and alien crashes, its all bunk. While people here waste their time on such matters, most people don't seem to realize how close real science is to detecting evidence of extra terrestrial life.

For example NASA's planet quest vision, utilizing several missions to detect extra solar planets, right now the main being the Kepler mission. It has detected several hundred planets, and on Feb. 1st they will release the data on them, and this year or early next is when we can start expecting more of the Earth like worlds to be detected.

After being detected, their atmospheres will be analyzed. You see an Earth like world with long chain compounds like CFCs in its amosphere? CFCs arent natural, they are air pollution. Bam. You know that planet has an intelligent civilization engaged in industry.

My point being Science is getting real close to this, and I'd bet all my money that science will provide you the evidence you seek - that humanity isn't alone - before the UFO crowd ever could.

I am skeptical of UFO reports and even more so of the field, because even if it does turn out that some UFOs were ET Craft, the UFO field has become so diluted, so filled with uttercrap mixed in with the serious researchers, that getting to anything good means wading through a sea of crap.

If you want a real answer to the question of whether we are alone in the universe, focus on the science. Chances are, if you are less then 40-50, that the answer will come within your lifetime. But it wont be from some "Disclosure", and event that has become to UFO believers what the 2nd coming of Christ is to christians, no, it will be science, it will be NASA, it will be SETI, these people will provide the evidence.

I wonder why anomalous ufos are automatically linked to extraterrestrial (intelligent) life. What if they are purely paranormal, like ghosts?

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Couldn’t agree more!

I don’t really want to believe, rather I want the truth and I believe the truth is either that we are not alone in the universe or have indeed been visited at some point in the past by ET. The problem is on ATS there are literally hundreds of not thousands of people making a series of really dumb claims founded in their religion of conspiracy rather than actual facts. This makes it very hard to believe, and unfortunately its not just on the UFO forum its everywhere, and when we point this out, we’re part of the evil NWO plot to suppress the truth. The real truth is that people on ATS are not interested in the truth, they are interested in the spectacular yet fictitious “conspiracy theories” that ultimately mean nothing and have no basis in fact.

Good thread S&F for you sir.

I couldn't agree more. I have been here awhile, and have seen the "I am an alien" threads and the ones who delight in tearing them apart. What we need is intelligent thought on this matter. I know ET is real, as real as my own nose it real, but that doesn't make it real to anyone else, does it now? I could probably, given time, prove to you all that I am an ET, but for what purpose would that serve, really? Would it be posted out of love, or of fear? To bring unwanted attention on myself?
By the time I managed to get the whole story out, the trolls would have disseminated it so bad sense could no longer be made of the original idea. So here is the deal on this matter. Those who know, really KNOW, are simply afraid to post what they know. A few have had the courage, Sleeper comes to mind. He got a great lot of flak, but the story came out, and then Lou wrote a book about the experience, which I read. Reading it brought a lot of forgotten memories back to mind.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I feel the same way nearly all of the time, it depresses me a lot also. I find it mind boggling that after nearly 70 years of hardcore witness testimony from people ranging from brigadier generals to air traffic control operators to marines to commercial pilots etc etc etc etc that it is not taken seriously, i mean, how is somebody trusted enough to have the nuclear launch codes, but not reliable enough to relate what he has seen with his own eyes, with other corroborating witnesses none the less???

This is the biggest problem for the UFO issue I believe, with government sponsored disinfo coming in a close second. In the disclosure project alone we have over 100 witness testimonies from people in the military, high ranking officials, astronauts etc etc, I just cannot get over the fact that theyre not taken seriously, they were entrusted with the security of the US at very high levels, how are their eye witness accounts not reliable??

I would also like to point out that THOUSANDS of people have been sent to jail or even the gas chamber on much flimsier testimony and eye witness reports. If THESE people testimonies are not reliable, many convictions must be over turned.

It doesn't matter what people say or think.

It doesn't matter what we believe.

ALL that matters is reality. Reality does not change itself when we deny it or think otherwise.

So it doesn't matter if you believe in Apple Trees or not. Apple Trees exist and that's reality.
Same goes with this subject matter.

No wonder you are so distraught. You actually care what other people think.

Originally posted by simone50m
I wonder why anomalous ufos are automatically linked to extraterrestrial (intelligent) life. What if they are purely paranormal, like ghosts?

There is no such thing as "para-normal".

IF it exists, it is Normal.

reply to post by SaturnFX




I too believe in "people" from far away doing business on our planet. I believe that most of our contemporary conspiracies, like 911 being a con job, are factual. I believe in "UFOs" and have my own ideas about where they come from and why. On ATS I believe that the really good stuff which is presented well has to be looked for. Most topics read like tabloid headlines and there are many types of people each with their own set of capabilities. And some are just plain nuts. So don't be discouraged. The stuff you are looking for is here. It hides in corners where it can only be found by the true inquirer.

Now if that doesn't convince you I just don't know what to say.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by simone50m
I wonder why anomalous ufos are automatically linked to extraterrestrial (intelligent) life. What if they are purely paranormal, like ghosts?

There is no such thing as "para-normal".

IF it exists, it is Normal.

Ghosts are real and thus "normal" don't you think?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Reality does not change itself when we deny it or think otherwise.

Yes it does. Mind over matter has been a secret in the esoteric societies for thousands of years and now Quantum physics is on the verge of proving it

That is why there is so much chaos these days

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Reality does not change itself when we deny it or think otherwise.

Yes it does. Mind over matter has been a secret in the esoteric societies for thousands of years and now Quantum physics is on the verge of proving it

That is why there is so much chaos these days

The concept of mind over matter doesn't mean if we think it it exists. It refers to using your mental strength to endure something. For example during my time in the Navy there was this seaman in deck department, who I crap you not, would not fall to the ground if you kicked him in the groin. No one believed him at first, so one day he bought a camera, called a bunch of people to the berthing area and asked one of the bigger guys to kick him in the nuts while his friend was taping. The kick went in, and sure enough, he didnt fall, he didnt even flinch!

That's mind over matter. His advanced mental strength allowed him to endure.

It does not mean if you think it it exists, otherwise i'd be rich with a harem of hot asian women being driven around in a limo in some major city.

Originally posted by Millions
So can I just ask you straight out - what do you think is going on in this area?

Yikes that is a lot of questions But let me try and answer with my opinion

Are we being visited?

Yes, but not as frequently as people think. There was heavy visitation around the Roswell era. That is when we have the good accounts like the 1952 Washington Flap, Kenneth Arnold who gave us the term "Flying Saucer" and many more. It was the hey day of contactees... it was the time of Eisenhower's meeting, and even an official visit by Val Thor from Venus

Those were the good ole days... I suggest you read this post
www.abovetopsecret.com... Take my word for it this fellow knows what he is talking about.

As to sightings in general... after looking at reports over 30 plus years it is my opinion that 85%ish (after eliminating obvious fakes etc,) of sightings fit into the 'plasma critter' category. From 'Foo fighters' to 'Orbs' that are not camera artifacts. A lifeform that was coined in 1954 and suspected by many. Just google 'Plasma Lifeforms"

Since they types are made of energy, they will always appear fuzzy on film, or glowing at night; they can change shape as can an amoeba; they leave no hard evidence; they feel no inertia as they are energy; and they can effect electronic things just like any other strong EM field could.

They are curious and aware of us, not sure yet if we can communicate with them They are basically harmless.

Denise Stoner, Director of Mufon Florida agrees with the critter assessment (she estimates 50%) and we find it possible that some ghost sightings are in fact 'critters'

15%ish are the black ops craft and I include all the triangles in this group

5%ish are the true visitors. And judging by lack of really good hard sightings these days, I suspect that there are few visiting right now.

Do the government know?

The US and Russia know, I think China might, but can't confirm that. The rest I don't know, but NASA has agreements with every space agency in the world, including China

Is there contact, or are we just being observed from afar?

Here are two items from people in the Military... the first one is from Jack Arneson, who after this exchange became Pegasus's military researcher.
www.thelivingmoon.com...
The part about the Aquila was what got him hooked, but that is another long story and not important right now

The other...

Thanks, Ron. I got a kick out of reading your note! YES..MIB's do exist. Did you get a chance to read my story about the 'visitor' I met at MacDill? He had 2 sets of eyelids...honestly...reptilian! I about # my pants when I saw his eye...never forget them!

MacDill is MacDill AFB, the 'story' was a 500 page report with all kinds of stuff I haven't even sorted yet

In both cases these aliens were wearing military uniforms of rank, looked mostly like us, except the eyes. Doesn't matter to me if anyone believes me. Take it for what it is

And has there been contact for millenia?

I believe so... the evidence is there, but that same evidence could also point to a more ancient advanced civilization on Earth... even pre Atlantis. I have been exploring the possibility that the Stargates are indeed real. That is another very long topic but if your interested there is a 6 year old thread here

Do we have alien technology?

Yup.

And what about some of the more extreme areas within the UFO field - like abductions, hybrids, time travelling and an american air force squadron specialising in space defence? (So many questions....!)

Abduction and hybrids...haven't dug into that too much as so many others are doing that and I am more interested in the tech.

Time traveling... well we already have the "Looking Glass"... I guess you could best describe it as a device that looks at backward (in time) traveling light rays and lets you see possible futures. I will go into that more in the near future as I have some Army documents that fit into this theme.

Dimensional 'gateways' do exist and the Government has and is investigating naturally occurring ones. Another area that cannot be answered simply

As to the "american air force squadron specialising in space defence?" that would be Space Command

www.afspc.af.mil...

www.peterson.af.mil...

Home of the 50th Space Wing
www.schriever.af.mil...

Home of the 45th Space Wing
www.patrick.af.mil...

If you want to know who runs the real space program, it's the NAVY
NAVY Space Command Uncovered
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hope that helps



I'd love to hear your thoughts, or if you have written about these things before, I'd be grateful if you could direct me to your threads.

Personally, I think too much of the UFO field these days is about witness reports (ie a bright object was spotted by x amount of people on xth March.... blah blah blah). What is much more interesting to me is the motives involved. I think its time to move on from debating whether or not we are being visited, and start examining WHY they are here, and why it is being kept secret from the average man on the street.

Thanks,

John