The Bible Is Not All That Bad...

reply to post by one_man24


"Can you explain some of these things to me? I see a lot of opinion in your post, but not much evidence to back it up."

I could sit here and break it down for you but like i mentioned earlier why beat a dead a horse ? Did you even read my posts ? This horse has been beaten over and over again . Today christianity is at its lowest its ever been . Your a declining religion thanks to the information age. People are getting more educated and learning what the bible really is about , then of course you have sugar coating christians like you , who refuse to believe anything else then what the bible tells them. I asked you to U2U me if you want to continue this discussion but clearly you don't speak english . I could easily sit here and go quote to quote with you but is that fair to the op thread ? I can go through 100's of quotes from the bible that contradict reality .... but why not go into greek mythology or other mythologies? What kinda serious reserach would waste time on something thats been dealt with by credited sources over and over. We know the bible is not the word of god , Why?

Simple


Its a contradictary flawed evil book full of hate jealousy murder rape and most importantly LIES attributed to GOD.

reply to post by seedofchucky


I did read your posts, and if the horse has been resurrected, as it has here, why not kill it again? Did you post before reding my other replies? I said sure, feel free to U2U if that's what you want.....but I feel this is on topic. We're discussing bad/good in the Bible. Why not have it out right here for all to see? Also, why do you feel the need to be so rude? Of course I speak english. One would wonder if you spoke it, the way you have dodged around my calls for you to provide your evidence that the bible is " a contradictary flawed evil book full of hate jealousy murder rape and most importantly LIES attributed to GOD" (your exact words). I'm sorry, but "why beat a dead horse" just doesn't cut it. Proof is provided, then either refuted or accepted. If you don't want to play with me, then just say so. And another thing, you said that Christianity is on a decline, and at it's lowest point ever. Not sure if that's true, but if it is..... thanks for helping me point out how another Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled.

from 2 Peter Chapter 3

3 First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation." 5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water, 6 through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up

I knew there was a reason I friended you.

I also like this one from Proverbs 3:5

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding

reply to post by one_man24


"You are saying a lot of things about the Bible being a mess, full of contradictions"

This has already been done though Why would i sit here and do it again and again? I've had this same chat with sooo many christians . It gets very tiring after a while. They all try and start off like a smartass like you who think they know the bible, but at the end of the discussion they leave in a rant and call you satan as usual. Why would i want to go through this again ?

Here the dead horse over and over again....

101 contradictions

this is just one website that has a discussion on it ....



here is some more christian ignorance...

"As I stated there is not one error in the Bible, not one at all. That has been proven 100% truth by all the evidence that are in all the museums all round the world." lool


"There is not one error in the Bible & anyone who has the brain to research this will find that out"

I guess only christians have brains ?



One example of deedat who know more about the bible then your biggest scholars.....


Destroys the bible.




You remember swaggart?


How about paster Stanley ?

Stanley Bible


The christians have had there chance with trying to prove the bible. Why do they keep failing over and over ? If you've really done your reserach that is . Why would i waste my time with this same dead horse?


"http://sciencestage.com/flvplayer.swf" quality="high" width="450" height="367" name="VideoPlayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" FlashVars="file=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DvJluEnIqTVk&image=http://sciencestage.com/uploads/thumbs/mkzut4znwghgopmo.jpg&width=450&height=367 &displaywidth=450&displayheight=367&overstretch=true&autostart=false&showfsbutton=false&logo=http://sciencestage.com/image_s/playerlogo.png&link=http: //sciencestage.com/v/15652/bart-ehrman-s-book-misquoting-jesus-1-of-5-.html&linktarget=_blank&backcolor=0xFFFFFF" wmode="transparent" border="0">Bart Ehrman s Book Misquoting Jesus 1 of 5

Remember this guy ? Was he one of yours gone bad?



Its not me its reality ..

"Your Bible is not true. It's not accurate. In fact, it's not even "inspired by God." - www.associatedcontent.com...


Christian Hippocracy 11 things you do anyway but its banned in bible


How about christmas you say ? A pagan tradition....


the unkown christmas story


Is the Bible Plagiarized From..


The bible is a joke of man kinds greed. Like i said once upon a time it might have been inspired by god . But today with the differnt versions its the work of greed.




"You are saying a lot of things about the Bible being a mess, full of contradictions"
Your quote


Not me my good man . Alot of people who have already broken the bible down.

Trying to reason with a Christian is like teaching a monkey to use an ipod...

reply to post by one_man24


"Proof is provided, then either refuted or accepted. If you don't want to play with me, then just say so. And another thing, you said that Christianity is on a decline, and at it's lowest point ever. Not sure if that's true, but if it is..... thanks for helping me point out how another Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled."

Not in the mood to play games with you , but im tired of christians and there dillusional logic . Its at the lowest point ever because people realize how full of # it is . As for prophecy someone smart i see realized the illusion would not last and decline.... Your right Great Prophecy

Not sure if thats true ? Christians are the biggest hippocrates in religion. They are the least religious and most talkitive. Your only fooling your self not me.

1) And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)

2) Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

3) Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

www.truefreethinker.com...

Questioning Evil Bible website just for you ...


Take some quotes as metaphor some as literal . Its just a matter of cherry picking what you like and want you don't right? How about the poison quote ? Are you ready to take a gulp ? Metaphor i know i know .... more excuses don't worry i forgive your ignorance your christian its a natural byproduct .

reply to post by seedofchucky


Give me time to watch your vids. To be honest, haven't heard of these people. But I will gain some knowledge on them very shortly. I assure you, no ranting, no calling you satan. You aren't dealing with your typical Christian here. Thank you for doing as I asked, and providing some information on your perspective. I'll be getting picked up by a friend soon. He's driving in from about an hour or so away, and we're going to look at hand guns today (for him, not me. He lives in Houston and was recently harassed at he and his fiance's home). I may not reply until later in the day. Also, as a side note, this is probably my best friend (aside from my wife), truly a brother to me. He is an atheist, and has been since we were teenagers. I love this guy. We have had some of the best conversations. We're both science buffs. Plus, no one has ever been there for me like him (even more so than most of my Christian friends, again an awesome dude). Anyways, I just want you to know that you shouldn't group me in with those who have given you bad experiences in the past. We can still be friends, even if we just can't agree on some things. Be patient for my reply, and have a good day!

reply to post by one_man24


Alright im glad your not like the typical christians then i look forward to chatting with you. Good day sir

reply to post by one_man24

I'm comfortable with my beleif that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God, and I know about a lot of those "bad" verses .

Those are not the only "bad" verses in the bible. I personally cannot fantom why an intelligent person, one who has actually read and researched the Bible, could follow such a deity in the first place, and call it a God in the second place? Some examples from my own Bible:

He created evil (Lam. 3:38, Jer. 26:3, 36:3, Ezek. 20.:25-26, Judges 9:3, 1 Sam.16:23, 18:10);


He deceived (Jer. 4:10, 15:18, 20:7, 2 Chron. 18:22, Ezek. 14:9, 2 Thess.
2:9-12);


He told people to lie(Ex. 3:18, 1 Sam. 16:2);


He lied (Gen 2:17, 2 Sam. 7:13);


He rewarded liars (Ex. 1:15-20);


He ordered men to become drunken (Jer. 25:27);


He rewarded the fool and the transgressor (Prov.26:10);


He delivered a man, Job, into Satan's hands (Job 2:6);


He mingled a perverse spirit (Isa. 19:14);


He spread dung on people's faces (Mal. 2:3));


He ordered stealing (Ezek. 39:10, Ex. 3:22);


He made false prophecies (Jonah 3:4. Gen. 5:10);


He changed his mind (Jonah 3:10);


He caused adultery (2 Sam. 12:11-12);


He ordered the taking of a harlot (Hosea 1:2, 3:1-2);


He killed (Num. 16:35, 21:6, Deut. 32:39, 1 Sam. 2:26, Psalm 135:10);


He ordered killing (Lev. 26:7-8, Num. 25:4-5);


He had a temper (Deut. 13:17, Judges 3:;


He was often jealous (Deut. 5:9, 6:15);


He wasn't omnipresent (Gen4:16, 11:5, 1 Kings 19:11-12);


He wasn't omniscient (Deut. 8:2, 13:3, 2 Chron. 32:31);


He often repented (Ex. 32:14, 1 Sam. 15:35);


He practiced injustice (Ex. 4:22-23, Joshua 22:20, Rom. 5:12);


He played favorites (Deut. 7:6, 14:2, 1 Sam. 12:22);


He sanctioned slavery (Ex. 21:20-21, Deut. 15:17);


He degraded deformed people (Lev. 21:16-23);


He punished a bastard for being illegitimate (Deut. 23:2);


He punished many for the acts of one (Gen. 3:16, 20:1;


He punished children for the sins of their fathers (Ex. 12:29, 20:5, Deut. 5:9);


He prevented people from hearing his word (Isa. 6:10, John 12:39-40);


He supported human sacrifice (Ex. 22:29-30, Ezek. 20:26);


He ordered cannibalism (Lev. 26: 29, Jer. 19:9);


He demanded virgins as a part of war plunder (Num. 31:31-36);


He ordered gambling (Joshua 14. 2, Num. 26:52, 55-56);


He ordered horses to be hamstrung (Joshua 11:6);


He sanctioned violation of the enemy's women (Deut. 21:10-14);


He excused the beating of slaves to death (Ex. 21:20-21);


He required a woman to marry her rapist (Deut. 22:28:29);


He taught war (Psalm 144:1);


He ordered the burning of human feces to cook food (Ezek. 21:3-5);


He intentionally issued bad laws (Ezek. 20:25);


He excused the sins of prostitutes and adulterers (Hosea 4:14);


He excused a murderer and promised his protection (Gen. 4:8-15);


He killed a man who refused to impregnate his widowed sister-in-law (Gen.

38:9-10);


He is indecisive (Gen. 18:17).



Now, Christians, and true Fundamentalists will say, "I believe the Bible is the Absolute Truth and Word of God; and it represents me; the way I want to be, the way I want to live my life."

Who in history, what low-life, what evildoer, can match or equal these deeds of, ostensibly, God? There are those who will, again, argue "context" and "interpretation". Context and interpretation do not concern a true Fundamentalist, that would be betraying the "Word" of God.
Does anyone, even a Christian, have the authority to contradict the Word of God? Actually, it is not a matter of "authority," it's a question of "right". Anyone, of a faith or not, has a responsibility to examine the truth of what is presented and to ask for evidence. Blind obedience leads to disaster. And clear-headed, unbiased scrutiny confirms the Bible is something other than God's word.

A true Fundamentalist believes the Bible to be the Word of God. They contend it is unconditional and without error. However, what they or I believe is immaterial and irrelevant. Just as it would be in a courtroom, the evidence must speak for itself.

Perhaps this is the main reason the Romans created a new God, named Jesus, a more loving deity, even though he does say if you fail to "follow him" you are doomed to everlasting Hellfire and damnation.

Figured I would do some more cherry picking the bible for jewels of moral wisdom.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)

Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT)


















God always seems really angry I don't see how any one could say god is love unless it's some weird form of violent hate filled love.

Once again another thread trying to just show a little support for the good aspects of religion has turned into an Christian bash-fest.

Aren't pretty much all religious holidays from pagan traditions?
There's a reason for that. It's not really a secret. Anybody with a little gumption can figure it out. They just don't tell you in school. There's a lot they don't tell you in school though.

Also, I said I didn't believe the Bible was the word of the Lord, not literally anyway. Of course the stories are mostly borrowed parables. Flood myth = gilgamesh and everything else. Got it. Doesn't really change anything.

reply to post by Mr Headshot


To be honest, it doesn't matter if it was the word of God in my opinion...we got to learn some lessons from it.

reply to post by BlackPoison94


Agree absolutely. I'm pretty much of the same opinion. Same goes with most "sacred texts"

Re Misoir

You wrote:

["For Westerners to reject Christianity they are rejecting everything in their past. For them to criticize Christianity and not the adherents it’s the same as criticizing them for every fault of their government. It’s irrational and biased."]

Nonsense. Practically everywhere, where the christianities now dominate, it's been at the cost of suppressing the original culture in that area. Christianity is not our cultural heritage. Postulates of such are just one of the many self-justification claims of a dying ideology.

Quote: ["The Bible is more than just about god, it’s about morals, principles, and guidelines for living a happy, fulfilling, and moral life."]

If the bible had been less self-contradictory, and if less violence had been used in pushing it, this may have been true; as it is this quote is just a propaganda-clichée. There are several ideological systems far more useful.

Re One_man24

My present answer refers only to your first post.

You wrote:

["Frankly, as someone who has studied the Bible objectively, I find this website laughable"]

It's perhaps even more laughable to use the word 'objectively' in the context you present. You just try to give a sheen of intellectual respectability to your ensuing rambling sermon.

Quote: ["I know it's hard to swallow, but the Bible teaches that there is no good in us apart from God."]

This is OBJECTIVE? Circle-argumentation; the bible is true, because it's true. And this explains everything including attitudes of gloomy repentant sinners, with their message of masochistic grovelling. A message with an obsessive need for monopoly, where the blood shed by 'god's soldiers (fighting whoever they fight at the monment) stinks to heaven, where it can please the old schizoid sociopath.

Quote: ["oh my how it sets the tone for this whole site's propaganda"]

Let's see about propaganda:

Quote: [" Many people accuse us Christians of following blindly, doing what we are told, etc. What are you doing? You just accept this website as proof or evidence that the Bible is evil without any research into the topics?"]

As to following blindly, I have already mentioned circle-argumentation (disguised as 'objective'), and in a mindset running on such lines, it's ofcourse inconceivable that anyone else can function differently. So opposition to christianity can only be based on parroting some christian-critical site. The whole range of arguments against the christianities from logic, science, epistemology, general semantics, philosophy, competing ideologies, social consequences and whatever can conveniently be disregarded and a debate be brought down to the level of the extremist mind thinking in black/white.

Me=good. Critic=bad.
Me=wise from reading good book. Critic=stupid from reading anything else.

Glory be to rational thinking.

Then follows the actual, rambling, but ofcourse 'objective' sermon based on the 'objective' book, ending with the 'objective' conclusion:

[Quote: " So here we have God showing that He is the one true God, with an absolute display of authority."]

Brilliant; I must better my ways soon, and join this group of clearheaded ultimate-truth-knowers.

And for the grand finale in this lecture on objectivity:

Quote: ["Let's get one thing clear though: This website is biased."]

It's probably also motivated by evil intentions of persecuting innocent christians, who only push/'share' their monopoly-truth for mankind's own good, never having hurt a fly doing this.

reply to post by ELahrairah


Just checking in real quick to let you guys know I haven't bowed out. I will answer each of you in turn, starting with the poster I was initially debating with (seedofchucky). Please understand that you have all given me a lot of material to address, and I feel like you would appreciately me responding to each of your points directly, rather than just giving a blanket statement. Have a good day.

Re Seedofchucky

Without being a university-graduate specialist on any subject, I have a fairly decent background in what generally can be included in the broad term 'existential questions', amongst which is also a solid hard-science education.

And from the various optional perspectives of that background, I have met and opposed evangelical christians for some time now. My experiences have led to personal conclusions, which seem to be similar to yours, and I have, as is my habit, tried to go beyond the visible surface and find underlying explanations.

The most apparant incompatibility between christian (Abramic) and christian-critical worldwievs is 'ofcourse' faith (basically being a subjective phenomenon) as opposed to what commonly is referred to as objective methodologies.

Faith as such has demonstrated a lot of weaknesses in many contexts. The variation between faith-adherers is considerable, and the subjective nature of faith often leads to conflicts between individuals and groups (in- or outside the specific faith), and this subjectivity can in extreme mindsets lead to such polarized attitudes, that open violence is the unavoidable outcome.

Faith also has the disadvantage, that it when confronted with pragmatism has very little general appeal. The major part of mankind is more interested in having food on the table and roof over their heads than in some intangible speculative abstractions.

And finally we have the contemporary formalized methodologies of 'knowledge' based on rational and logic principles, which inside a given frame can disprove most faith claims.

Already amongst the first christians extremist attitudes lead to quibbling and internal power-struggles, and routines for christianity were established then. Endless scholastic debates of interpretation of doctrinal points, without any possibility of an objective reference-frame whatsoever, eventually leading to open conflicts based on political alliancies.

This has followed extremist christianity since then, and these days, in liberal secular societies, where the violence option is drastically reduced, scholastics is back in vogue. But the core doctrines in christianity are so easily dismantled, that contemporary christian scholastic more is about creating a defensive smoke-screen between the basic doctrines and opposition.

Hence we have have the full register of evangelist bag-of-debate-tricks, from hijacked and twisted objective methodology (e.g. 'intelligent design' etc), via the semantic mangling procedure (e.g. dictionary defintions of 'similarity' turned into 'identical') to the persecution argument ("we're denied our natural privileges, so we're persecuted").

The original core doctrines of christianity are already a very elaborate and complex system of circle-argumentation. The contemporary smoke-screen is an extension of this. Coupled with the missionary attitude of just repeating the same propaganda clichées again and again, it's like unravelling a gordic knot to find anything tangible, substantial or basic (except the doctrines themselves) in christian argumentation.

I will probably be accused of being biased or paranoic, when I say, that this thread is just another manifestation of christian propaganda. It's not an appeal for fair-mindedness, it's to put up the smokescreen once more to reduce the shortcomings of evangelist christianity in its competition with far more attractive alternatives (be such alternatives 'religious', theist or whatever non-theist options there exist).

This is sneaking christianity in through the backdoor.

I surely can understand and symphatize with your beat-a-dead-horse approach. Not least because the dead horse miraculously and semantically is resurrected on an almost daily basis.

reply to post by BlackPoison94


The ''Old Testament'' has been around a lot longer than just two thousand years. Long before it was the OT it was the jewish holy scriptures consisting of the Torah, the books of the prophets, the many books detailing the vast history of the jewish people, the psalms of David, and many many more books not mentioned in the King James Version Bible. The Torah was given to the children of Israel as a set of rules and instrutions meant to guide them in their everyday life in order to keep them from straying from Gods ordinances and commandments. We must also understand that God gave these commandments to the children of Abraham Issac and Jacob not to the greeks or the romans or anybody else. He gave them to the children of Israel because He had a covenant with their forefathers. Now then it is true that the bible is filled with stories of war, sex, violence, incest, murder and theft but what nation or people doesn't have that? The greek and roman empires are filled with such stories but we do not disregard their history or write them off do we? We are men and we are inherently fallible and the bible demonstrates this to us. The bible does not come with a child friendly G rating. Make no mistake the bible is an R rated book. Now then the bible is also filled with stories of love, compassion, forgiveness, mercy and kindness. There are also many valuable and wise principles that the bible teaches us that are still applicable even today. Now the ''New Testament'' mainly chronicles the life of Jesus before, during and after his time on the earth. He teaches the concepts of ''love thy enemy'', pray for those who hate you and despise you, forgive those who wrong you, give abundantly, judge no one and ''do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'' All are good, right and sound principles to live your life by and that is what christians are supposed to do and be--- disciples of Christ. I hope I have brought some clarity and understanding to this discussion.

Re I want to believe

You wrote:

["Now then it is true that the bible is filled with stories of war, sex, violence, incest, murder and theft but what nation or people doesn't have that?]

So it's OK then? We can use the bible as a moral guide and as an description of ultimate reality, because some other idiots also behaved badly.


Quote: ["The greek and roman empires are filled with such stories but we do not disregard their history or write them off do we?"]

What has greek and roman history to do with the theological bible?

Quote: [" We are men and we are inherently fallible and the bible demonstrates this to us."]

What do you mean "demonstrates"? The bible POSTULATES, ofcourse unless circle-argumentation is acceptable. In which case the flying spaghetti monster also is true (you never heard that one before did you, or maybe you just like to preach, no matter what).

Quote: [" He teaches the concepts of ''love thy enemy'', pray for those who hate you and despise you, forgive those who wrong you, give abundantly, judge no one and ''do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'' All are good, right and sound principles to live your life by and that is what christians are supposed to do and be--- disciples of Christ."]

It's sad then, that many christians haven't read NT or choose to ignore it. In any case practically all ethical teachings contain the same message, but without OT to confuse them or fall back on, when violence after all IS needed.

Quote: ["I hope I have brought some clarity and understanding to this discussion."]

You have repeated a sermon served incessantly, and if people haven't understood this sermon by now, they never will.

Originally posted by Misoir
Once again another thread trying to just show a little support for the good aspects of religion has turned into an Christian bash-fest.

edit on 1/22/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)

It is called telling the truth, something Christens don't know how to do. Read your Bible sir, it's in there. That God is evil.

Originally posted by bogomil
Re I want to believe

You wrote:

["Now then it is true that the bible is filled with stories of war, sex, violence, incest, murder and theft but what nation or people doesn't have that?]

So it's OK then? We can use the bible as a moral guide and as an description of ultimate reality, because some other idiots also behaved badly.


Quote: ["The greek and roman empires are filled with such stories but we do not disregard their history or write them off do we?"]

What has greek and roman history to do with the theological bible?

Quote: [" We are men and we are inherently fallible and the bible demonstrates this to us."]

What do you mean "demonstrates"? The bible POSTULATES, ofcourse unless circle-argumentation is acceptable. In which case the flying spaghetti monster also is true (you never heard that one before did you, or maybe you just like to preach, no matter what).

Quote: [" He teaches the concepts of ''love thy enemy'', pray for those who hate you and despise you, forgive those who wrong you, give abundantly, judge no one and ''do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'' All are good, right and sound principles to live your life by and that is what christians are supposed to do and be--- disciples of Christ."]

It's sad then, that many christians haven't read NT or choose to ignore it. In any case practically all ethical teachings contain the same message, but without OT to confuse them or fall back on, when violence after all IS needed.

Quote: ["I hope I have brought some clarity and understanding to this discussion."]

You have repeated a sermon served incessantly, and if people haven't understood this sermon by now, they never will.

No I don't believe it is OK to murder rape and steal but as I said in my post the OT is an account of the history of the JEWISH people and like any nation or people their history is filled with both good and bad things but the bad shouldn't be the only thing focused on. Greek and roman history has nothing to do with the bible but it has a lot to do with this discusion I believe because no matter what nation or people or race we discuss whether it be greeks, jews or mayans every nations history is filled with good and bad but they shouldn't be judged on the bad alone. Yes the bible does demonstrate that men are fallible because almost every single person mentioned in scripture made mistakes and had to learn from them. It is one of the center points of scripture and the very beginning of it. All men make mistakes but there is forgiveness. As i said men are fallible we make mistakes and learning to be like Christ, to become love is the hardest lesson of all because our flesh wants to do the opposite. This has been enjoyable. Thank you.