Which is more dangerous Gangs or Police?

Personal experiences? Okay...I've been harassed by gangs (bikers and other gangs) many, many times through the years, but never by the police. This isn't to say, of course, that all gangs are lawbreaking thugs or that all police are good, because I've heard and even seen lots to the contrary. Again, this is another area where stereotyping, generalizations, and bias might get the best of us at times.

I never grew up in a "gang" community and never sold drugs so I've had no personal problems with gangs. I've had friends who've had occasional run in and it was usually over women or drugs.

As for police I'll relate a little story that happened three years ago fourth of July. We had some issues with the city when we first moved here because we had a pot bellied pig. Small town and apparently it was against a city ordinance even though we asked prior and were told by the clerk it wouldn't be an issue. I won't go into that and the lawsuit etc that occured.

Well it was the fourth and my wife had shot off a few fireworks like all our neighbors had been doing also. Three police cars showed up at our door and proceeded to write us a ticket and we were told to turn over any more contraband we had. I said we didn't have any and they tried to force their way through the door. I slammed it shut on his foot. They milled around outside for a while and one climbed over my privacy fence and found a spent bottle rocket they claimed later was the evidence. LOL. I let my dogs out on his ass. I was charged with interfering with a police act or something like that. I requested a copy of the police chatter from that night as I felt the city was after us from the sheriffs dept which was confiscated by our now fired police chief. I filed theft charges on him because we were forced to supply the tapes. After all was said and done the charges were dropped but we still had to pay the ticket. I inquired into suing for violating the 4th amendment for searching my yard with a privacy fence but was told it would cost a fortune and probably nothing would come of it. I was also ticketed for grass clippings in the street the summer after. Most of the crooks from that regime have been voted out now thanks to things like this.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Personal experiences? Okay...I've been harassed by gangs (bikers and other gangs) many, many times through the years, but never by the police. This isn't to say, of course, that all gangs are lawbreaking thugs or that all police are good, because I've heard and even seen lots to the contrary. Again, this is another area where stereotyping, generalizations, and bias might get the best of us at times.

Thanks for the response, this thread is an attempt to cut through the sterotypes on BOTH sides and get a general ideas of how it affects people on both sides of the issue.............and more importantly those outside either group..........the average person. Since most are happy to describe there harressment by police I would ask.....if its not too personal..........to give a few examples

reply to post by lastrebel


I have dealt with the Hell's Angel's, the Outlaws, the Latin Lords, the Vice Lords, Black Disciples, and other gangs from one side of this country to the other. I have also dealt with the police from one side of this country to the other. The most dangerous of the two is the police for a couple of reasons. Or to be more precise those in authority. This is true for a couple of reasons.

Gangs KNOW they are not immune to retaliation for their actions. Police and those in authority believe they have immunity. That is why they freak when one of them is killed. A second reason is gang members are aware that THEY are making the decisions for which they will be held responsible while police get to cop out with "I was just following Policy and Procedure", I was just following orders, or a variety of other denials of responsibility. Most of the time the police have no idea of why they are doing anything. Just that they have been told that they can and will not be held responsible for the consequences.

Think of it this way. A gang breaks into a house and the owner fights back and dies. Headlines. "Hero citizen dies defending home." If that gang is the police it will read "Homeowner commits suicide by Cop." Exact same situation but two totally different results.

So far it seems to be about 3 to 1 against the cops but this is far too small a sample to make a call

I ivite everyone to give an example form personal experience of being harressed by either group

As an LEO I have had no problems with bikers. Crips, Bloods, MS13, Sureno13, Notreno14, WAR, and other gangs are the problem here, there biker gangs act human. Last July we had a small riot forming at the Veteran Days Parade the local biker gang helped saved a rookie that was getting stomped, they also helped carry some of the injured to the ambulances.

Secure

Do to the recent events in tucson im not sure anymore. There are so many theories about Police States and the uprise of the Omega Agency and former president Bush. Gangs are the problem of the suburban and city areas now but i wonder what the problem in the future will be, maybe complete police states?

They want you to believe the police state is on the uprise. But is it? Really? Anyone have numbers? I honestly don't know.

Aren't we losing law enforcement in most places? Are those numbers being replaced somewhere else? At the federal level, for example?

Gee now why would they want us believing we're heading toward a police state...to make you worry and irate maybe? To get rid of police unions and pensions maybe? They are after all among some of the last remaining workers in this country who still get a pretty damn good one.

I'm just asking...is it really true that the police state is upon us? And, no, a few examples of police in riot gear brought in from a lot of surrounding areas at events won't convince me.

everyone is going to say the police ofc!
the gangs dont do sht because the cops are around..
sure maybe in some areas the gangs arnt as hardcore
but ill bet money if cops all droped their badges,we'd all be crying to them to come back

Most of the time the cops show up AFTER the crime is committed. If a gang messes with me i'm going to shoot them.. If a cop messes with me well can't shoot them.

reply to post by xXxtremelySecure


Thanks for an LEOs insight

I have been amazed riding around the country by the vast difference from state to state and even town to town in the way I was looked upon by LEOs...........from chatting Harleys over coffee to being told to get the heck out of town NOW................lol. Had one even take my girlfriend to a parts store to get a throttle cable that had snapped while i watched the bike in a "bad" neighborhood.

I have seen towns where the bars and resturants had "No Bikers Allowed" signs and those where we were welcomed with open arms and we and the police road togather on toy runs and chairty events.

Of course I have meet "bad" bikers but have also seen towns where those in charge including police were little if any better than an extortion gang.

As for street gangs whilr they have never bothered me I suspect they dont bother me for the same reason some LEOs have............I am big, hairy and covered with tattoos as are most my friends.........lol

Originally posted by lastrebel
reply to post by xXxtremelySecure

 

Thanks for an LEOs insight

I have been amazed riding around the country by the vast difference from state to state and even town to town in the way I was looked upon by LEOs...........from chatting Harleys over coffee to being told to get the heck out of town NOW................lol. Had one even take my girlfriend to a parts store to get a throttle cable that had snapped while i watched the bike in a "bad" neighborhood.

I have seen towns where the bars and resturants had "No Bikers Allowed" signs and those where we were welcomed with open arms and we and the police road togather on toy runs and chairty events.

Of course I have meet "bad" bikers but have also seen towns where those in charge including police were little if any better than an extortion gang.

As for street gangs whilr they have never bothered me I suspect they dont bother me for the same reason some LEOs have............I am big, hairy and covered with tattoos as are most my friends.........lol

I am an adviser for our Law Enforcement Explorer Program, last year when we went to the national convention I was shocked at the extremes you see. The biggest thing I would like to point out is the difference between union and non-union PD's. You will notice that non-union officers are a lot friendlier and don't fill out a quarter of the use of force reports union officers do.

Secure

I'd say gangs are more dangerous but police are more annoying. I've never been involved in a run in with a gang but more times than I can count I've been in a run in with the police. If everyone carried a gun on them or at least knew self defense we wouldn't need men with guns because we would be men with guns. If don't want people to have guns, you must hire more police officers which means you need more...wait for it...guns! Oh the irony.

to me they are of the same page one for law, one for.. oh ya... there law, one will say ok that is fair, the other is ok we say that is fair, both have guns have there own rules of the street, lines that one does not cross, one has a badge, one is marked with a badge, gun shot wound, colors, scares, one will put you jail, one will make you think your in jail, and both will kill you.

reply to post by filosophia


I live in VA(an open carry state), I love it when I walk into a store and the owner has a sidearm on, it means that I will most likely not get a robbery call from that store. You tend to notice that the house that have NRA signs in the yard never get robbed, but the ones with the Mothers Against Guns sign in the yard are almost guaranteed to get robbed. I love it when I got to a call and a someone that had a CCW has the suspect face down on the ground(not dead). I am a FIRST RESPONDER, not a psychic even though I wish I was .

Secure

reply to post by xXxtremelySecure


while I can not speak for strreet gangs or police for that matter I think a lot of our issues with each other have to do with our SIMULARITIES not our differences, note this is painted with a VERY LARGE BROAD BRUSH

We tend to............

Be very clanish and distrustful of outsiders
Back our brothers right or wrong
Are cocky and arrogant toward outsiders
Very proud of who we are and what we do
Very protective of our families and brothers
tend to view outsiders as "the enemy"
wear uniforms that make us stand out
tend to use force when it might not be needed
prefer to settle internal problems among ourselves
tend to use overwhelming force to attacks against us
refuse to testify against a brother
have an us against them mentality
etc

I could come up with a 100 more

We (Bikers) wear a patch that could easily fit us all............it says..........

When I do right no one remembers
When I do wrong no one forgets

Never had a bad encounter with either.. Oddly enough in past have been helped by both when needed help.. thus couldnt say which would be worse .. Though my experiences were with police in asia and with triads over here.. Guess its different in western countries..

In my experience, outlaws usually demand the respect due one's equals.
Officers usually demand the respect due one's betters.

reply to post by 23refugee


I think you have a good point, most of us just want to be treated as equals...........not as serfs. A LEO that treats me with respect will recieve the same...........heck I am willing to offer respect first and in there job I wouldnt have the restrant they have dealing with child molesters, killers and rapists.

Having said that the equation is NEVER equal among us..........they have a bad day.........we go to jail
We have a bad day........we go to jail

There has to be a workable medium here