Tucson shooter's incredible marksmanship

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
And another thing about ballistics are that the 9mm round, at close range, would not have achieved it maximum velocity speed...

All ballastics achieve maximum velocity at or near the weapons muzzle. They do not speed up in flight.

Correct correct...

The lowest speed that a 9x19 round will leave the muzzle is 900 ft/sec
Do the math with me here....that means a target only 10 ft away would receive impact in just over 1/100 of 1 second. The lowest force of impact is approx 420 footpounds.

Haven't heard yet if anyone "in the crowd" fired back. And, as you all have said, we don't know how many rounds were fired, have "their" word the person who was with him was a cab driver, haven't seen the ballistic reports (and may never see them), so....

reply to post by macman


Center mass...yes...but now that criminals are wearing vests, do you think this might change? I don't know much about this.

If the US army had Loughner and Lee Harvey Oswald in Afghanistan the whole thing would have been over 9 years ago. With their shooting skills they'vs save the DOD millions a year in ammo.

I'm still amazed at the VT shooter's skills. Speaking of which, did they ever release ballistics reports from that incident? I gave up looking after a while.

I guess these guys practice hard. It's just sick.

I'm guessing from this thread that most of you have never fired, held, or even seen a gun in real life. Also, it appears that there is a lack of knowledge of physics and actual ballistics.

At five yards, even I could make repeated headshots with a 9mm, and that's with only a year of range time under my belt.

Originally posted by bussoboy
reply to post by macman

 

macan; your sentence about high head shot counts is interesting. Some years ago a you bloke (in his 20's ) in Australia who had the mental age of 11 years, supposedly walked into a cafa and started shooting and killed 37 (from memory) people. While I cant remember the number of head shots now the case was notable for 3 reasons.

1. the head shot count was high even though he shot frrom the hip.
2. the shooter stood in positions that made it difficult for anyone to rush the shooter and knock him over,
3. the bloke who commanded Australian troops in Vietnam, a brigadier, said that whoever the shooter was, was a better marksman than himself. (dunno if the brigidier was a marksman by profession or not)

This bloke had cops cowing in the drains for 6-8 hours. ????????????

Smell like another mind control assissan with a pre chosen patsy?

Can't say. I guess that luck has it play sometimes in the world.
I ranked 2nd in AZ at the academy for 2004 for the whole year, and I gotta say that shots from the hip are very hard and very movie-ish.

reply to post by watchitburn


Not true. Again, research officer related gun battles. Once the body receives adrenaline, the first thing to go is fine motor skills. This relates to the index finger and the force used to apply pressure to the trigger. Ask any competition shooter. The smallest change in finger position can translate to huge changes to point of impact.
Then vision starts to go. This is related to tunnel vision. Most people will only see objects within a 3-4ft diameter.
At that point, you are running on muscle memory and training. This is where most people encounter weapon failures and so on. 25 ft is a long distance.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


I am not implying that the injuries were from the arresting cops beating him. It could be to lower the outlook to the public that he is good and normal right now.
Case in point, in Utah, there is a skinhead on trial for the murder of a corrections officer. The defense lawyers were able to petition and get the court to apply makeup to the murder. This is because he has facial tattoos.
It is a public perception issue.

Originally posted by youdidntseeme
Star that doesnt exactly look good for making your case.

You were asserting that JLL had above average skill level, but then point out a large number of similar instances where the skill level is perceived to be above average as well. If those cases showed a low skill level, it would have been more effective.

I should have pointed out that all the mass-shooting incidents I mentioned are thought by independent researchers to have involved other shooters, though in the end were blamed on the proverbial "lone nut."

This thread is yet more proof of A C.I.A. Operation in progress!

Bravo for the information and the links... If indeed Jared was deemed "disconnected" as has been stated then he was a victim of MK Ultra, and his newly found C.I.A. recuiter "friends"...

They seem to have perfected thier "sleeper cell" Technologies to now have the ability to produce Instant Sleepers... Sliced Bread at this point seems a travisty.

I agree everything you said.

But, if a calm person with the intent of shooting alot of people is able to get that close they are not going to miss. I have never been in a police gun fight. but I would be willing to bet that most of them are not planned, and the majority of people in them are scared out of their minds

This is no conspiracy. There were many witnesses that state, “This is the shooter”. And yes, you can hit fish in a barrel if you are close enough and there are a lot of big fish to hit. No, it doesn't take a marksmen to hit targets, as many gang style shootings where multiple victims are injured with one weapon have prooven. You have to let go of Hollywood here folks, the movies are wrong.

As for any supposed marksmanship on the part of the shooter, let me tell you, hitting people in the leg, hand, and back when you are supposedly trying to assassinate them is not marksmanship. Even his main target survived (thank God) so, no, I certainly wouldn't call this attack marksmanship by any stretch of the imagination.

This was some “Lucid Dreamer”, obviously deranged, psychotic who went on a rampage around a lot of people with a lot of rounds, at close range, nothing more.

Originally posted by watchitburn
I agree everything you said.

But, if a calm person with the intent of shooting alot of people is able to get that close they are not going to miss. I have never been in a police gun fight. but I would be willing to bet that most of them are not planned, and the majority of people in them are scared out of their minds

The body, in regards to fight or flight, does not really disseminate between fear and an adrenaline rush. The person may remain outwardly calm, but the heart and respiratory rate increases.
It still requires fine motor skills.
There is a difference between calm and disconnect. He is disconnected.

Also, most officers are trained to respond to gunfire in an aggressive manner that is on the offense.

reply to post by macman


You are missing my point, He PLANNED to do it. Adreneline/Fear same thing, because you are forced into the situation instinct takes over. he intended to shoot up the place, He may have had to get himself pumped up to go through with it, but he knew what was going to happen. most likely his heart was beating as fast as a snipers from 500yds away.

Originally posted by watchitburn
reply to post by macman

 

You are missing my point, He PLANNED to do it. Adreneline/Fear same thing, because you are forced into the situation instinct takes over. he intended to shoot up the place, He may have had to get himself pumped up to go through with it, but he knew what was going to happen. most likely his heart was beating as fast as a snipers from 500yds away.

I get what you are saying. My response is either reactionary or offensive action, the adrenaline still kicks in.
You gotta agree that he had to of had some sort of training for this.

It is true and cannot be denied that his 1st target did survive. It is also true that she was shot directly in the forehead and that cannot be denied. However a trained assassin would be instructed(especially if they are very precise and deadly with their instrument) to go for the brainstem and not the forehead...

I think this is very important to point this out. A truly accurate assassin at pointblank range would not waste his first and best shot on a forehead if he truly was this unbeleivably accurate assassin. The assassin would have put the bullet (considering the level ground) right in the triangle formed between the middle of the top lip and the inside of the eyes. Reason being is the fact that the brainstem is the exact place where the most important functions in a body are unconciously transferred to the nervous system and then relayed to the vital organs and systems. It is the ultimate kill shot and there is absolutely no chance for survival if the brainstem is destroyed.

Has anyone on here ever pondered a more paranormal explanation for the accuracy of these "crazed" shooters?

What if they are more than just crazy?

What if they are channeling something or possessed by something that allows them to perform feats of marksmanship they wouldn't normally be able to do?

Stories from cultures all over the world and from all ages of history discuss possessed people speaking foreign languages, exhibiting superhuman strength, and extra sensory information.

The Beserkers of Norse culture were thought of as warriors possessed by forces that gave them superhuman skills and abilities in combat.

In East Asia, cultures have numerous writings about warriors with superhuman skills and abilities due to channeled and focused chi/qi.

Could these shooters be tapping in or possessed by these kinds of forces?

Originally posted by OatDelphi
It is true and cannot be denied that his 1st target did survive. It is also true that she was shot directly in the forehead and that cannot be denied. However a trained assassin would be instructed(especially if they are very precise and deadly with their instrument) to go for the brainstem and not the forehead...

I think this is very important to point this out. A truly accurate assassin at pointblank range would not waste his first and best shot on a forehead if he truly was this unbeleivably accurate assassin. The assassin would have put the bullet (considering the level ground) right in the triangle formed between the middle of the top lip and the inside of the eyes. Reason being is the fact that the brainstem is the exact place where the most important functions in a body are unconciously transferred to the nervous system and then relayed to the vital organs and systems. It is the ultimate kill shot and there is absolutely no chance for survival if the brainstem is destroyed.

Trained assassin would not have exposed themselves to the public for a killing.
Any highly trained shooter is going for a heart shot, as it is a bigger target area then the head/brain stem. If you miss the heart, then you will more then likely hit the lungs, causing death but at a slower rate.

reply to post by macman


"Trained assassin would not have exposed themselves to the public for a killing."

While I agree with you to some point, I beleive your thinking more on the lines of an assassination where escape was the end result. JLL went into this with a deathwish with no plans of return or life after the fact.

"Any highly trained shooter is going for a heart shot, as it is a bigger target area then the head/brain stem."

I don't know about this statement. We are currently in a time where medical technology can pump blood or breathe for a patient. Yet they(medical world) have no real clue as to how the brain and spinal cord work the way they do. So the chances of death from a brainstem injury are far more greater than a chest/lung/heart injury. Thus this is why assassins aim for the base of the skull and not the middle of the chest. Only foot soldiers and beat-cops are taught to shoot for the chest because it would cost too much to actually put them all through the needed training to be able to pull off a shoot like I have been describing.

If he were a trained killer he would have put 2 rounds center mass in the chest to cause hydraulic shock then if the target hasn't fallen yet one to the head.