The Idea of Jesus was Created by the Devil

reply to post by illuminateme


God Almighty (Jehovah/Yahweh) is the one true God (in my humble opinion).

Jesus according to scripture was the only begotten son of God, he is the only being created directly by God.

Jesus is the Master Worker, and like a carpenter, created everything else, Jehovah being the Architect.

God and Jesus are of one mind, the apple doesn't fall far from the Tree.

However, They are two distinct beings, the trinity doctrine is inaccurate (in my opinion). It has parallels to pagan teachings.

There are many prophesies in Genesis and Isaiah that point to the Messiah. The story of Abraham and Isaac is a foreshadow of Jesus sacrifice.

The reason we even needed a Messiah is because of the Devil, and Adams treachery.

Jesus' sacrifice gave God a reset button for the human race.

Worshiping any image is idolatry.

Originally posted by illuminateme
Then why does Jesus refer to God as a seperate entity. From what I have read and listened to in church he never says he himself will provide salvation or any other act but God the Father will. As for the trinity being three in one why does Jesus sit at the right hand of God. Does the Spirit float to the left?

To Gods left sits Metatron the scribe of all.
Metatron(wiki)

Read about him/it.

If jesus is an incarnation of god "in the flesh" then a more acurate term would be "Avatar" instead of "son". However the "son" term promotes a far more stable family unit which the church can then extract wealth from in a more round about way.

And if I'm not wrong, Jesus was there during creation too. The below quote is from King James Bible.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14-18 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

reply to post by illuminateme


Just for fun, look at the times the phrase 'Angel of the Lord' is used in the OT and read that verse and a couple afterward and you'll find out that the Angel of the Lord is God Himself.

Those are called "preincarnate" appearances of Jesus. That's why he said "Before Abraham was, I AM."

reply to post by dusty1

Jesus according to scripture was the only begotten son of God, he is the only being created directly by God.

Adam?
Eve?

reply to post by Yuuki


But that is a New Testament Verse which according the my proposed theory is only used to justify Jesus where does God say he is sending His son or that he even has a son?

Originally posted by illuminateme
reply to post by Yuuki

 

But that is a New Testament Verse which according the my proposed theory is only used to justify Jesus where does God say he is sending His son or that he even has a son?

Would the below quote convinced you?

Gen 3:15 (The first prophecy in the Bible, Jesus was to be that seed of the woman)
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. (KJV)

Gen 22:18 (Jesus was the promised seed of Abraham)
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. (KJV)

Gen 26:4 (In Jesus, the seed of Abraham through Isaac, the whole world is blessed)
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; (KJV)

Gen 49:10 (The sceptre [scepter] denotes King, Shiloh means Peace; Jesus is the King of Peace)
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. (KJV)

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Adam? Eve?

Col 1:16

15who is image of the invisible God, firstborn of all creation; 16because by him were created all things, the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or principalities, or authorities: all things have been created by him and for him.

Bible Gateway

reply to post by dusty1


Adam was created first, Eve second. In fact, Jesus was the one who created both. "Firstborn" in Hebrew means "greatest born". Example: David was called the firstborn of his brothers, yet he was the youngest son of Jesse.

In your free time Google "Hebraisms".

Originally posted by Yuuki

Originally posted by illuminateme
reply to post by Yuuki

 

But that is a New Testament Verse which according the my proposed theory is only used to justify Jesus where does God say he is sending His son or that he even has a son?

Would the below quote convinced you?

Gen 3:15 (The first prophecy in the Bible, Jesus was to be that seed of the woman)
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. (KJV)

Gen 22:18 (Jesus was the promised seed of Abraham)
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. (KJV)

Gen 26:4 (In Jesus, the seed of Abraham through Isaac, the whole world is blessed)
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; (KJV)

Gen 49:10 (The sceptre [scepter] denotes King, Shiloh means Peace; Jesus is the King of Peace)
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. (KJV)

edit on 15/01/2011 by Yuuki because: (no reason given)

In Gen 3:15 God is putting a mutual hatred between man and serpent. How does this predict the coming of Jesus?

IN Gen 22:18 God promises the because Abraham was willing to kill his for his God, God would bless him with a very long line of descendents, it does not say one of those descendents would be God's son.

In Gen 26:4 God reiterates his promise to Issac son of Abraham to have a long line of descendents not declaring one of them to be the messiah.

in Gen 49:10 the sceptre does denote rule or dominion however shiloh does not mean peace here is the hebrew meaning of shiloh:

The Hebrew word “shiloh” is a combination of particles (sh + lo), and actually means – “to whom it belongs.” Thus, the statement – “until Shiloh comes” – more accurately reads:

Until to whom it belongs comes.

So the sceptre will not leave Judah's lineage untill Shiloh comes, How could Jesus be shiloh if he is of Judas' lineage Jesus is suppose to rule for all time is he not?

Originally posted by illuminateme
reply to post by Yuuki

 

But that is a New Testament Verse which according the my proposed theory is only used to justify Jesus where does God say he is sending His son or that he even has a son?

Proverbs 30:4 ~ "Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, If you know?"

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Not that I subscribe to this explanation it does seem more plausible considering the context. I found it here www.onenesspentecostal.com...

Seeing that these rhetorical questions were asked immediately after highlighting man's ignorance in lieu of God's wisdom, the expected answer is negative, "Not man!" What man has ascended or descended into heaven? There is no man, thus highlighting man's insignificance in light of the Holy One. Who has gathered the wind in his fists? There is no man, again highlighting man's insignificance in light of the Holy One. The same can be said of wrapping up the waters in one's cloak and establishing the ends of the earth. There is no man who can do such, only God. Only after this series of rhetorical questions does the author ask his readers to tell him who has done these things. The author is not asking what divine being has done these things, but what man has done these things. Essentially he was asking, "If you know a man who has done these things, tell me his name and the name of his son." (The whole idea of giving the name of the individual and the name of his son serves to identify the man who did these things. It must be remembered that in Biblical times people did not have last names to distinguish themselves from others with the same name. To name one's son was a further mark of identification, clarifying which individual is being named.) Obviously no man did these things, thus neither he nor his son could be identified. Seeing that no man could be identified (and thus no man's son) it demonstrated that only God could do these things, and man was nothing in comparison to Him. That was precisely the point the author was trying to stress to his readers. No man can do what God can do. He is so much greater than we are.

I am not an athiest, I believe in a God/Creator but find it hard to believe that I have to go through someone else to get there. Therefore I am arguing this side please don't take offense but keep coming with more point maybe one will convice me for I am of open mind.

reply to post by illuminateme


Wrong, Agur the son of Jakeh is asking about God. It says so in the preceding verses in Chapter 30. Words mean something, and a quote taken out of context is actually a pretext.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

In fact, Jesus was the one who created both.

We are in agreement.

All things were created by him at Gods direction.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by illuminateme

 

Wrong, Agur the son of Jakeh is asking about God. It says so in the preceding verses in Chapter 30. Words mean something, and a quote taken out of context is actually a pretext.

Proverbs 30:1-4
1 .) The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto Ithiel, even unto Ithiel and Ucal,
2 .) Surely I am more brutish than any man, and have not the understanding of a man.
3 .) I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.
4 .) Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Verse 1 states Agur is speaking and continues to speak through the verse you quoted. It never changes to him speaking of God, he is asking what man can do the miracles of God.

a quote taken out of context is actually "contextomy" Definition of PRETEXT: a purpose or motive alleged or an appearance assumed in order to cloak the real intention or state of affairs. Courtesy of Meriam Webster online Dictionary.

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

In fact, Jesus was the one who created both.

We are in agreement.

All things were created by him at Gods direction.

So your are saying God and Jesus are seperate then where in the Bible does it say Jesus created Adam and Eve. In Genesis 1:26-27 God creates man. Where does Jesus take credit for something he did not do.

Originally posted by illuminateme

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

In fact, Jesus was the one who created both.

We are in agreement.

All things were created by him at Gods direction.

So your are saying God and Jesus are seperate then where in the Bible does it say Jesus created Adam and Eve. In Genesis 1:26-27 God creates man. Where does Jesus take credit for something he did not do.

I think the meaning of "All things were created by him at God's direction." is that when God created the world, he spoke the Word. By that, I presume that the Word of God is actually Jesus before he became Man. Thus, God and Jesus seems to be separate, but in fact they are not, as mention in the bible according to John.

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

reply to post by illuminateme


Jesus is the master worker.

30Then I [Wisdom] was [a]beside Him as a master and director of the work; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing before Him always

Proverbs 8:30

Jesus is not the Creator or the power behind creation. God Almighty gets credit for that. Psalms 90:1,2

Jesus was used in creating. Colossians 1:16

reply to post by Yuuki

Thus, God and Jesus seems to be separate, but in fact they are not, as mention in the bible according to John.

I believe they are separate beings. Father and son.

Sometimes the simple answer is the correct one.

Exodus 4:16

God spoke to Moses and depending on the translation Moses was to be "as God" or "God" to Aaron. Moses of course was not God Almighty, but he was God's spokesman and Aaron was to be Moses spokesman.

16 So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God.

biblegateway

Jesus acknowledged that God is superior to him on many occasions.

Originally posted by illuminateme

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by illuminateme

 

Wrong, Agur the son of Jakeh is asking about God. It says so in the preceding verses in Chapter 30. Words mean something, and a quote taken out of context is actually a pretext.

Proverbs 30:1-4
1 .) The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto Ithiel, even unto Ithiel and Ucal,
2 .) Surely I am more brutish than any man, and have not the understanding of a man.
3 .) I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.
4 .) Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Verse 1 states Agur is speaking and continues to speak through the verse you quoted. It never changes to him speaking of God, he is asking what man can do the miracles of God.

a quote taken out of context is actually "contextomy" Definition of PRETEXT: a purpose or motive alleged or an appearance assumed in order to cloak the real intention or state of affairs. Courtesy of Meriam Webster online Dictionary.

Verse 3 he begins his questions about "the Holy", or the almighty.

P.S. By "naptown" do you mean Indianapolis?