Your nation is ready for you to rule

I figured a bit of light hearted pondering may be good. Exercise the brain and dream of a better world according to our standards, but what is our standards.

We have many people whom suggest their nation sucks because of X or Y.

So, lets do senario thinking then.

A large landmass popped up. It is a big land, and for some weird reason, it was given to you completely. You are to draft a 10 point "constitution" for the land that will live for all times in this nation. no more, no less. What would your 10 rules of the land be for your perfect utopia.

Will you outlaw religion? Will you create a christian theocracy? Will you create islam? Will you institute anarchy? Would you create a technocracy?

And finally, at the end of your 10 points, tell me where you see your nation in 250 years of growth around these 10 concepts.

I am interested to see the diverse opinions on a utopian society to their design

If this thread gets legs, I will post my 10 and the forseen results of the rules I create


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Where it should head in 250 years based on these 10 rules:

Reply to post by SaturnFX

1. Do unto others...

2. Castle doctrine around self and property.

That's it.

In less than 250 years I predict a lazy and complacent people will start demanding chains for safety and the whole thing will be over with.

Which is why I probably wouldnt let anybody in or at least eject them the moment they started showing authoritarian symptoms.

I always lose at SimCity because I refuse to waste money building crap I dont need and refuse taxing people who chose to live there to fund splendor. I dont see any point in growing just for the sake of growing. Cities that is. Intrinsic growth is different.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reply to post by SaturnFX

 

1. Do unto others...

2. Castle doctrine around self and property.

That's it.

In less than 250 years I predict a lazy and complacent people will start demanding chains for safety and the whole thing will be over with.

Lol, at least your honest.

Do unto others though sounds iffy...what of someone shot your friend...does that mean you must go out and shoot someone elses friend?

Meh, it was worth a go anyhow...I guess you won't be running for emperor of the world anytime soon.

Reply to post by SaturnFX

...does that mean you must go out and shoot someone elses friend?

No, it doesnt. Eye for an eye isnt do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Quite the opposite actually.

Vengeance doesnt do anyone any good.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Only one point:

Here you are free to do as you wish with the understanding that violence, in any form, will not be tolerated. Violation of this principle may result in permanent expulsion, as deemed appropriate by the community.

Simple enough. Ideally the inhabitants of said island will be absent of any psychological disposition that would even consider violence as a constructive or logical way to resolve differences. Violence, as I see it, is any affront to the innate rights we have as individuals. This encompasses a wide range of unjust actions, or I like to conceptualize it, actions inconsistent with natural law.

My idea of natural law is simply living in respectful harmony with your environment and the people you share it with. If you can do that, there isn't any need for additional laws. If you can't do that, go find your own island.

No rulers necessary.

In 250 years, who knows what it would look like. There is no prescription, no expectation. The only thing that is really important is that people live in liberty and peace. Everything else is trivial.

Originally posted by NthOther
Only one point:

Here you are free to do as you wish with the understanding that violence, in any form, will not be tolerated. Violation of this principle may result in permanent expulsion, as deemed appropriate by the community.

Could lead to massive anti-gun laws, violence in any form also can be likened to defense, therefore not only is the person expelled from the land, but the victim for fighting back

no police force because they would need to use violence, etc.

Violent speech may be interpreted as mental violence, no violent TV or games, etc...sounds pretty oppressive and counter to free speech...but thats just my take on it. It doesn't sound like a place I would like to live once amendments and hair splitting starts taking place.

reply to post by SaturnFX


1 All who can speak in a language that can be understood by atleast 80% of population are = on or off world

2 Wars will not be started unless started with this land for this is a peaceful land (we just trying to live and be happy for a change)

3 The rules of this land will be carried out by female and male if possible leaders of all known races in local vicinity of this land or off depending. These female and male leaders from every race will be elected by all from each race (equality)

4 you can practice any religion as long as the council which consist of every religion in local oks' it as a positive driven religion (no political relations) meaning people go to worship not to get in cool with certain political systems

5 Education is a must for all. Up to an associates degree. For all not only because it helps genetically gain intelligence but it helps with social relations in the populace getting to know each other from all walks of life

6 There are no rich or poor you can keep your money relations to yourself if money is even around???? A fair bartering system full of educated professionals should be able to find a way. (we know the exact amount of skills needed per profession like doctors amounts and scientist ect. somewhat forcing the populace to get educated in all fields on a balanced level. So say you get sick a doctor should be in your local vicinity if not more then one. Say you need social advice a social worker should be living within your community. See it I hope

7 Medical is free for everyone I mean its health related why should anyone have to work at an elderly age to get health care (insuring a healthy population) Health courses are present in all grades of education and are a must to pass

8 A list of all banned behaviors and items would be first sent thru council which consist of all races of home planet. This way everyone will get to vote their 2 leaders to speak for them and then the leaders can decide with what the people want first by majority rule concept.

9 All are welcome from home planet and off home planet as long as they are totally excepted by council of planet. So if some off planeteers came by and wanted to live among thats is fine as long as some can if they wanted from home planet go to the off planeteers home to live (if its livable for current population of home planet cause we may switch PARNA SUITS LOL). And each time more are added to council as encountered and found humble, this is where the male/female possibility may differ if an asexual race of off planeteers came thru. Also offplaneteers must register with land like all other citizens and be given holographic pass only seen in body fluid scans so no visual markings are present to prevent fear of being marked by evol of sorts

10 Any crimes committed shall be balanced by the same crime committed by offender in most cases. This will eliminate petty behaviors labeled as crimes. Petty crimes will have a tax put on you that wont leave until covered/cleared so you only get into a form of debt from REAL negative behavior not cause you lost your job and cant cover bills (AGAIN IF A FORM OF MONEY EXIST). So if you steal, rob ect. this is the only way to put you and your family in debt. If crime is serious like murder then there will be murder on horizon for you once fully proven guilty if only partially proven guilty with hard evidence then your memory is wiped clear and your set back into society as you were before possible crime was committed. No need to build ugly fake jails which don't help and take up space for better development like schools and breed all types of negative social behavior due to them being same sex populated smh.....

Thats my lil try

cool thought S&F

Where it should head in 250 years based on these 10 rules:

In 250 years this land should set an example for other lands/planets and once other lands local and non planetary catch on to how we live MAYBE THEY WILL FOLLOW. IT WONT BE FORCED UPON THEM. Also if things intergrate properly technology should be great especially from working minds of multi galactic locations. Protecting the many incase a war starting nation came thru tryen to make the noise!

Peace and be well -ALL-

Meh, I might as well do my 10

1. Government shall not offically recognise any religion, religious institutions, or religious ceremonys. Government shall offically remain neutral about religion for or against.

2. Scientific progress is paramount and superceded only by humane concerns regarding the life, liberty, and persuit of happiness of the population.

3. All people have a right to basic housing, basic foods, basic education, and basic internet. Everything else they must work for.

4. Every capable person is required to work 5 hours a week for government, be it simply sweeping streets, checking in on the sick, or various other community building tasks approprate for the individual.

5. Rights are for residents and citizens

6. To gain citizenship, you must complete a IQ aptitude test and score 120 or more (the low limit on above intelligence), and have spent the majority of your life in country, and not have a felony from any district within 10 years.

7. All are treated equally, regardless of race, gender, religion, political affiliation, sexual preference, or age.

8. To become leader on any level, you must be a citizen

9. You will be taxed 20% of your gross income yearly. These taxes will be used to facilitate any social or infrustructure programs.

10. Only citizens can legally own guns. Felonys removes citizen status for 10 years after which they can reapply and be given back their gun.


It would be hoped that within 250 years, society would favor the intelligent and therefore move towards intellectual persuits. Hopefully such a trend would amplify fairness and striving for excellence with a merit based society.
In 250 years, I would hope to see my nations flag over a few martian colonys and several space stations

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


Nice set, but I see 4 turning into a clusterf--k over time.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Could lead to massive anti-gun laws, violence in any form also can be likened to defense, therefore not only is the person expelled from the land, but the victim for fighting back

no police force because they would need to use violence, etc.

Violent speech may be interpreted as mental violence, no violent TV or games, etc...sounds pretty oppressive and counter to free speech...but thats just my take on it. It doesn't sound like a place I would like to live once amendments and hair splitting starts taking place.

"...as deemed appropriate by the community."

Let's hope common sense would win the day. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to defend yourself, or face ostracization if you did. Television, games, or any other form of artistic expression aren't violent in and of themselves. It is individual action with the intent of violating inherent human rights that is at issue here.

As I said before, people living in respectful harmony with their environment and the people they share it with have no need for laws, amendments, or anything of the sort. If there is a general consensus of how to treat each other (and put into consistent practice), crime and punishment are both obsolete, archaic concepts.

You said you wanted Utopia, right? That takes a fundamental change in the way we see our relationships to other people and the world we live in.

reply to post by NthOther


Although I understand what your getting at, I also see politics for what it is...hairsplitting by lobbiests to pass amendments on banning violent video games because it insights violence (see Australia).

Common sense and politicians...do you see the issue here?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Which ones????

reply to post by SaturnFX


No politicians, no lobbyists. Simply mutual respect and voluntary cooperation among free individuals. Granted, it would take a special breed to make it work, and it would look vastly different than any society we've ever seen before. It's difficult to envision such a society without viewing it through the prism of our current one, using the language and concepts we've grown accustomed to.

Humanity is, of course, not ready for this yet. But a man can dream that it could happen someday, right?

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Which ones????

4..as in number 4. heh..sorry, was not clear there.

religion only so long as other religions agree it is harmless...ya, thats a recipe for supression.

Most religions think that any other religion that is even slightly different to their dogma is straight from hell.

reply to post by SaturnFX


lol I see. Do you think if possible Extreterrestials who are kind to humans practice or study their creator. Basically I feel the want to seek where we came from causes automatic religion.... Here there everywhere I wouldnt doubt even the evol 1z follow some supreme being master god who may still be living as well.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

lol I see. Do you think if possible Extreterrestials who are kind to humans practice or study their creator. Basically I feel the want to seek where we came from causes automatic religion.... Here there everywhere

I wouldnt doubt even the evol 1z follow some supreme being master god who may still be living as well.

My concept of alien religion...well, highly advanced alien religion, may be very different than our earth mudmen religions...they may be trying to uncover a greater order in the universe for personal trancendence in some form or another..the line between mystical and scientific may be blurred with a super advanced race from our perspectives.

I think species far advanced know full well exactly how they came to be and how the universe came to be, so they would be more concerned with bigger issues, such as how did dimensions come to be, or multidimensional aspects...giant patterns, contacting species far more advanced with themselves, etc.

We in our religions, discuss angels and beings of light. Those stories I can accept in a way...why not. I imagine the universe is filled with beings from all spectrums, from barely grunting cave people, to advanced beings so beyond our scope of progress that they would be seen as angellic or even deitylike by our standards...and even worthy of a bit of honor and accepted guidance for our knuckle dragging selves.

This is not really the topic though.

7. All are treated equally, regardless of race, gender, religion, political affiliation, sexual preference, or age.

[paraphrase]... unless you are of average intelligence, or - May The Leaders Forbid - intellectually retarded... [/paraphrase]

I like your ideas in general, but the one about only smart people getting in smacks of eugenics.

Ever seen Gattaca? Top film... Addresses some of the issues a technologically inclined society might come up against in the pursuit of Utopia.


My thoughts? A Utopian society can't be produced by only having intelligent folk. You'd need radical reform of the education systems before there would be any guarantee that you'd end up with anything other than the hodge-podge of dissatisfied, unfulfilled people that we witness daily around us...


Ah what the hell - here's my 'off the top of my head' thoughts on the matter:




The Nation of Fly-Topia



First rule = Make the energy free, with systems engineered and provided from common funds and each citizen with an equal share of 'capital/ time investment' in the project. That's the foundation of the success of our nation.

Second Rule = The pursuit of perfection in all we do, to the best of our abilities, for as long as we all shall live.

Third Rule = Provide the basics for everyone.

Fourth Rule = Engineer the environment to be as close to a tropical paradise as practically possible.

Sixth Rule = Six days of six hours work for all; each citizen must take part in a sporting activity once a week (at least) - to whatever standard of competition they are capable of.

Seventh Rule = Graded salary structures according to a sort of 'fair' caste system. Capitalism doesn't work in Utopia, as it leads to greed. each shall know their duties and perform them well. Anyone who becomes incurably sick or disabled wil be cared for in specially maintained accommodation, and will be encouraged to contribute to the arts (often the last recourse for permanently ill folk, as I should know).

Eighth rule = Each male citizen between the ages of 18 and 35 must (and any female aged similarly who wishes to, may, of her own free will) join the standing army sworn to protect the citizens. (NB - similar to the volunteer reserve forces, in addition to the full-time army, such as Britain's TA) They will take part in three times weekly, hour-long training sessions designed to develop common bond, develop high levels of skill, maintain fitness and inspire respect from visitors to the nation. The nation is defined as the citizens plus its leaders, and special safeguards will be put in place to ensure that no one group seeks to establish an abusive power hold over any other. The absence of competitive trade internally, and the assurance of fair external trade agreements should any ever prove necessary (as part of being an Utopia, the nation will aim to be self-sufficient) - these should hopefully prevent power cabals from spawning.

Ninth Rule = Technical progress (while certainly one of the highest objectives) will not be divorced from an agnostic position concerning the nature of reality, the universe, God etc. Scientists will be encouraged to keep an open mind in all matters, and no paradigm will be allowed to become 'sacrosanct'. Peer reviewing will not be declined on the basis of snide publishing preferences (see the lack of competitive trade rule), and the fact that transparency (anti-corruption) measures are in existence will ensure that all research being conducted can be equally accessed and insights offered by any citizens, who have anything (of any potential value) to share in assessment of the research, as a means to progress in the search for answers to any and all 'problems' (read as endeavours - there will be no problems; this is an Utopia after all) - that we find ourselves tackling in the course of life.

*phew - longest sentence I ever did write *

Tenth Rule = Freedom of expression, speech and sexuality, without degrading or profaning any other person, activity carried out by a person or people (etc). Invitation to assess the policies, processes, laws and constitutional arrangements of the nation will be extended bi-annually to all citizens as part of a national celebration of unity and progress, marked by a week's national holiday and a collaboratively produced PARTY..!!!!


*** *** *** *** ***

Overriding rule regarding children - no child (under 16) will be exposed to anything other than positive, productive, healthy activity and an intellectually rigorous education. Children will be schooled in the policies, processes and constitutional arrangements of the nation from the age of 12, having been given a schedule of 'virtuous behaviours' to model themselves after from the age of 8.

The education system itself is a complexity I wouldn't want to comment further on without proper time to reflect.






Disclaimer - the above came from my brain and I reserve the right to call it my own should it ever prove useful in relation to my commercial opportunities. (Heck, this isn't Fly-Topia now is it?!)

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


Right...Eugenics. I am a total fan of it actually, just not the kill inferior people style.
More genetic eugenics..aka, find a cure for baldness and introduce the cure into the genetics, find a genetic treatment that increases the IQ of the population and introduce it, etc...

As far as the IQ thing...intellectual understanding of complex systems is necessary for a leader...the movie "Idiocracy" is a comedy to most, it is a scary and very real prognostication of the future to me.

Your list is nice, the work thing sucks though...too much work, and with military service, and with sports. I was actually considering the opposite approach and saying anything over 25 hours a week needs to get paid double time, that way it creates a plentiful job market for all time and demand is high for employees..also if a person is bored with just offical working only 25 hours a week and has no real hobbies can simply pick up a second job and work 50 a week. If the government today instituted this system and made all pay overtime after 25, you would find the job issue cleared up within days...sure, some people would be living with a bit less initially, but they could simply get a second job...and those without jobs would find themselves suddenly with alot of opportunity.

1. There are always exceptions
2. Do no harm
3. Self determination is bound by the community
4. Diversity and sustainable are in the natural order of the land
5. Environmental, social and financial responsibilities apply to all
6. The law defines the difference between conflict and competition
7. The government defines the community values
8. The sciences define the reality
9. The other organisations support the community
10. With all power comes responsibility

I can see this taking us to the stars and beyond as we continue to grow and learn about this world in a responsible and sustainable manner.