I Am a Victim in a Legal Kidnapping Conspiracy

I Am a Victim in a Legal Kidnapping Conspiracy

They are trying to take my eight-year-old daughter away from me. Three and a half years ago, my father-in-law took advantage of my trust in him when he told me, not once, but three times – when I asked specifically if the Guardianship papers he wanted me to sign (he brought them on behalf of my sister) meant that I would be giving up my right to bring my daughter home when we (her father and I) could make sure she had a roof over her head and food to eat – “Oh, no. Don’t worry about that. You’ll still be the one to say when she comes home.” Well, each time he phrased it a bit differently. I kept looking at the paperwork and it seemed to me that I WAS giving up my right. That is why I kept bringing it up. (Marc, you flabbergast me!)

And, in fact, it’s been the Court’s decision since the papers were signed. Not mine.

But I signed those Guardianship papers and so did my husband (under false pretenses notwithstanding). The only one of our daughter’s family who refused, initially, to sign was my daughter’s paternal grandmother. “Oh, no. I’ve seen how THIS ends. They’ll take her from you after a long battle.” She was the wisest of us all. We talked her into it, eventually – too bad, I say now – explaining that we were being evicted and would be homeless, and our daughter would be in no danger with my sister, better protected, and I fervently trusted my sister (the truth)…

Ok. I panicked – my precious child should not have to live with no roof over her head, unsure if there would be a next meal anytime soon! – and trusted people who (I guess from looking at their behavior in retrospect) kissed up to me and my husband with mock warmth. (These same people had, at one time or another, commented on what a good mother I was.) I sent my beloved child 3000 miles away to live until I could provide appropriate custody, care and discipline. Over two years ago we accomplished that, and since then, my husband and I, poor thought we be, with loving and open arms have been trying to get her back.

Emails and letters I write to my daughter are not delivered – don’t want to UPSET her – and I can’t afford to call every day like I want to, so that’s birthdays, Xmas and Thanksgiving. And now and then. Half the time I get a machine, anyway.

But wait, there’s now more… Now my sister is going through the courts to adopt my daughter – entirely against our will – and smugly claiming that my daughter WANTS her Auntie to adopt her. AND she is taking advantage of the fact that we cannot be in court 3000 miles away, because we are poor (Daddy is an inventor and part-time dishwasher and Mommy has applied to over 35,000 jobs, in person and on the web, since she was laid off in 2006 – no one’s hiring an old lady (I’m 54)) to ensure that this is a done deal!

As has been pointed out by others… What can possibly be higher in the interests of a child than to be with his or her natural parents if they WANT the child, and can provide appropriate custody, care and discipline? Who would keep a child from parents willing and able but a monster?

◄●►

When My Daughter Left My Care She Was Becoming…

When my daughter left my care she was becoming my best friend. She was becoming one who chose joy over sadness, one with whimsical sense of humor. She was becoming one who contemplated things and made insightful observations. She was becoming spontaneously giving. She was becoming one who called for family hugs and got them. She was becoming assertive – yet polite and dignified, especially in public. She was becoming a good conversationalist – even at four years old. She was becoming helpful and concerned, warm and open – a loving, creative Being.

All these things I encouraged in her. All these things made her a delight to have as a daughter and a friend. I am so blessed for the years that I had with her.

When my daughter left my care it broke my heart. When the system failed us and our Awesome Family (as she called us) was to be homeless, I sent her to my sister 3000 miles away, in open trust that my daughter would be well cared for and with the agreement she would come home to us when we were stable.

For over two year we have been trying to get her back, but she has been legally kidnapped… And now my heart is doubly broke. If what my daughter was becoming was a sign of “bad parent(s),” I’ll eat my hat.

I wonder who she is becoming now.

◄●►

Dear Lili,

The biggest mistake I have made in my life was to let you out of my sight. I panicked, and feared that I would be unable to take care of you. Thinking back now, I wonder what you now become and if you remember who we, our family, were becoming – the silliness, the fun, the serious moments, the learning from each other – and I know full well I made a mistake. I should have had more faith in The Awesome Family.

Perhaps I haven’t communicated much, but I didn’t want to interfere with your adapting to the adventure I thought you were prepared for. We talked that night before you left and I explained that it might be quite a while that you would be on the adventure and I was sure you knew that Mommy and Daddy would come for you when we were able. You smiled and told me that you understood and that you would try to have fun.

I don’t want to go into detail, but I do want you to know that both Daddy and I have been trying for over two years to bring you home. What I am told now is that you want Auntie Becky to adopt you and I wanted to ask you some questions. First, what do they tell you about what our family is like? Do you remember walking out to The Point and swinging on the swings and playing in the sandbox? Did you see the couple of hours of family video we sent? Do you remember hollering, “Family hugs! Family hugs!” and the three of us wrapping our arms around one another? Do you remember the special connection you and I had?

Do you understand that if Auntie Becky adopts you, you can never come and live with us because the law will no longer see that I am your mommy and that Daddy is your daddy?

Sweetheart, I know this is a lot for an eight-year-old to take in, and even if they don’t give this letter to you right away, I want you to know that I am in favor of giving you all the information. I have faith in your ability to think critically. I want to give you what I felt was too little given to me as a child, which was credit for my ability to understand – if I have the pertinent data to work with.

I have one additional thing to add… I sense that they have told you Daddy is a bad man, a bad father. Mommy has lots of experience to know the signs of bad daddies, and I watched how our family behaved. Sure, maybe once a month, Daddy would put his foot down and become stern with you when you were doing something he asked you several times not to do and you kept doing it, but sweetheart, there were no signs of “bad daddy” anywhere to be seen.

As I said in the xmas card we sent in the gift, every day something happens and I wish we could share it with you. In case it matters, I miss our family hugs.

I love you, my little Buddha, and so does your Daddy. We miss you every day.

Mommy

◄●►

How I Became Homeless – Another Mistake I Made

Perhaps at this point you are wondering how my husband and I went homeless. Well, being laid off, unable to find work, and then running out of savings and then the support of even our families, we applied to Social Services and I made a mistake.

I filled out the forms and, after waiting a while, was taken to a desk and a lady went over my answers with me. When we got to the 401K question, she asked rhetorically, “No 401K’s?” and it is then that the mistake on my part was made. I said, “Well, I used to have one but it’s gone now. That’s why I’m here.”

She then proclaimed archly that in order to get services I had to prove I DIDN’T have a 401K. (WTF?) She said that providing a closing statement would work. I should have kept my mouth shut, I tell you what.

I searched high and low and could not find the statement so I called the company that had taken over the company I had worked for, but after many cherished phone minutes and at least seven numbers, I was referred to the number I originally had called. I couldn’t spare more minutes, and though I wrote a letter asking for a statement, it vanished into corporate hell.

So perhaps the culprit here is that corporation… I would have received help, would not have panicked, would not have lost so many of my cherished belongings, and most of all… Would not have had my child legally kidnapped – if they could have directed my call to someone who could help.

Heh. Probably don’t have a case there. Wouldn’t have likely been in time to help anyway. No… It really rests on the shoulders of my family and the paternal grandfather and his spouse (the step-mother who seems to hold a grudge because my husband DIDN’T want to be adopted; perhaps SHE feels an accomplishment). I hope a way to get there appears before we have to go to court.*

*PLEASE do not offer me money. I’m trying to get rid of it from this planet and don’t want it. Instead, send my story to your favorite medium, be it email, blogs, forums, twitter, local media, y’know. I’d rather that form of support.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
I Am a Victim in a Legal Kidnapping Conspiracy

They are trying to take my eight-year-old daughter away from me. Three and a half years ago, my father-in-law took advantage of my trust in him when he told me, not once, but three times – when I asked specifically if the Guardianship papers he wanted me to sign (he brought them on behalf of my sister) meant that I would be giving up my right to bring my daughter home when we (her father and I) could make sure she had a roof over her head and food to eat – “Oh, no. Don’t worry about that. You’ll still be the one to say when she comes home.” Well, each time he phrased it a bit differently. I kept looking at the paperwork and it seemed to me that I WAS giving up my right. That is why I kept bringing it up. (Marc, you flabbergast me!)

Ok relax, take a breath. You are the Birth Mother, you made choices which were in her best interest at the time, you DO NOT HAVE TO DEFEND ANYTHING.

And, in fact, it’s been the Court’s decision since the papers were signed. Not mine.

But I signed those Guardianship papers and so did my husband (under false pretenses notwithstanding). The only one of our daughter’s family who refused, initially, to sign was my daughter’s paternal grandmother. “Oh, no. I’ve seen how THIS ends. They’ll take her from you after a long battle.” She was the wisest of us all. We talked her into it, eventually – too bad, I say now – explaining that we were being evicted and would be homeless, and our daughter would be in no danger with my sister, better protected, and I fervently trusted my sister (the truth)…

Again relax, take a deep breath, let your shoulders drop... YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DEFEND...

Ok. I panicked – my precious child should not have to live with no roof over her head, unsure if there would be a next meal anytime soon! – and trusted people who (I guess from looking at their behavior in retrospect) kissed up to me and my husband with mock warmth. (These same people had, at one time or another, commented on what a good mother I was.) I sent my beloved child 3000 miles away to live until I could provide appropriate custody, care and discipline. Over two years ago we accomplished that, and since then, my husband and I, poor thought we be, with loving and open arms have been trying to get her back.

Relax, take a deep breath, let your shoulders drop, and feel your heart because it has lead you this far, it won't leave you now or in the wrong direction if you simply, allow...

Emails and letters I write to my daughter are not delivered – don’t want to UPSET her – and I can’t afford to call every day like I want to, so that’s birthdays, Xmas and Thanksgiving. And now and then. Half the time I get a machine, anyway.

Relax, you did all you could to try and respect those who were caretaking her, who after taking temporary custoday began to harbor negative feelings against you in order to keep your Daughter, it is natural coming from unconscious people.

Now, there are cell phones for around 40$ which you can use only to start connecting with your Daughter at least once a week. If you have the extra $, send her one too and tell her she can call you anytime for any reason.

There is also Skype, which will enable you to make free phone calls anytime 24-7-365. You just go to their site and join. Later you can even get a couple computer cameras if your Daughter has a comp, and talk face to face!

But wait, there’s now more… Now my sister is going through the courts to adopt my daughter – entirely against our will – and smugly claiming that my daughter WANTS her Auntie to adopt her. AND she is taking advantage of the fact that we cannot be in court 3000 miles away, because we are poor (Daddy is an inventor and part-time dishwasher and Mommy has applied to over 35,000 jobs, in person and on the web, since she was laid off in 2006 – no one’s hiring an old lady (I’m 54)) to ensure that this is a done deal!

Good for you! Your sister taking custody of your Daughter is inconsistent with the original agreement. Listen, often times children have to form a shell of protective covering when changes like these happen in their lives and they feel that they have no real say in what happens with or to them.

What they can do is to learn terrible adult habits of playing one against the other, to learn the art of manipulation, to say and do whatever is in their best interest and will keep those that are their caretakers appeased and 'on their side' , even at the expense of saying or agreeing to things which would seem opposite of what they normally would. It is survival level mentality and really very normal in this situation. The insecurity of past has probably been grilled into her, hardwired into her reasoning processes and ability to see things as having changed on your end. Again survival.

As has been pointed out by others… What can possibly be higher in the interests of a child than to be with his or her natural parents if they WANT the child, and can provide appropriate custody, care and discipline? Who would keep a child from parents willing and able but a monster?

Good points, keep those close to your heart, but remember that although you cannot change how the family views you or your Husband, you cannot undo what has been said to your daughter, you can be a great influence for your daughter and she is the focus here, not the drama or the unjust and victimizing behavior of the other family.

Now, it has been a considerable amount of time since she was taken in the eyes of the courts and more importantly the child services who really have the ultimate say. They do have representatives in both States and that can be used to your benefit.

As her parent you 'will' have to provide safe transportation for her to come home and should be putting that aside, doing whatever possible to get cash, which you will need.

◄●►

When My Daughter Left My Care She Was Becoming…

When my daughter left my care she was becoming my best friend. She was becoming one who chose joy over sadness, one with whimsical sense of humor. She was becoming one who contemplated things and made insightful observations. She was becoming spontaneously giving. She was becoming one who called for family hugs and got them. She was becoming assertive – yet polite and dignified, especially in public. She was becoming a good conversationalist – even at four years old. She was becoming helpful and concerned, warm and open – a loving, creative Being.

All these things I encouraged in her. All these things made her a delight to have as a daughter and a friend. I am so blessed for the years that I had with her.

When my daughter left my care it broke my heart. When the system failed us and our Awesome Family (as she called us) was to be homeless, I sent her to my sister 3000 miles away, in open trust that my daughter would be well cared for and with the agreement she would come home to us when we were stable.

Remember, you can never have those years back, those are her private years no matter how young she was, is. She has been in a different environment, different stimuli, different people, and she has grown, every thing we do in life is part of our journey, hers has made her stronger and you will have to respect the changes which have gotten her to where she is now and respect it from your heart with gratitude for the years lost and for her safety and well being, that was your original intent right?

For over two years we have been trying to get her back, but she has been legally kidnapped… And now my heart is doubly broke. If what my daughter was becoming was a sign of “bad parent(s),” I’ll eat my hat.

I wonder who she is becoming now.

She has grown and survived, she is still and always will be your precious little girl, but when she does come home, you will have to start at ground zero, of course there will be aspects which you can just pick up from where you left off, but there will be a natural adjustment period where you will have to learn to first trust and then love and even like each other again for who each of you are 'now'.

*PLEASE do not offer me money. I’m trying to get rid of it from this planet and don’t want it. Instead, send my story to your favorite medium, be it email, blogs, forums, twitter, local media, y’know. I’d rather that form of support.

Never refuse monetary gains when you are in this kind of position, its only money. In the courts systems, you have to go in with solutions, not argument, you go with facts and not conjectures, and you play according to societies rules which mean having the money available to bring her home properly and show you can support her. Take pictures of her space, of her room and what you have ready for her. Take pictures of yourselves and your home, your yard, the community. Send them to your Daughter, and have them available when you go to talk to family social services to get this straightened out.

Also, does she have a disability check involved?

"I wonder who she is becoming now."

that would probably scare me most; especially considering the past actions of the person who has been "taking care" of her..

Why in the world would you need to sign guardian papers to send your kid to live with your sister till you got on your feet? There has to be more to this story. If you can't afford to contact her more then holidays and birthdays then why in the world should anyone believe you can take care of a child and that added expense?

Sorry I am usually sympathetic to stuff like this but this does not add up, this dog won't hunt.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Why in the world would you need to sign guardian papers to send your kid to live with your sister till you got on your feet? There has to be more to this story. If you can't afford to contact her more then holidays and birthdays then why in the world should anyone believe you can take care of a child and that added expense?

Sorry I am usually sympathetic to stuff like this but this does not add up, this dog won't hunt.

The reason I was told was to allow my sister to enter my daughter in school, and to handle insurance issues. But I think the plans were already in the works - based on the lies my father-in-law told.

Had we known about a conditional guardianship...that would have been our option. We didn'r and my sister had the papers prepared.

Originally posted by antar
Ok relax, take a breath. You are the Birth Mother, you made choices which were in her best interest at the time, you DO NOT HAVE TO DEFEND ANYTHING.

I guess... But the Court would not give our daughter back when we first petitioned. And they're lying about her father to her...

Relax, you did all you could to try and respect those who were caretaking her, who after taking temporary custoday began to harbor negative feelings against you in order to keep your Daughter, it is natural coming from unconscious people.

Well... Yeah. FYI, my sister works for the county in child welfare - and her fiancee works for an attorney - so we suspect, by the way the judge has treated us, that there might be some collusion. Maybe not, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Now, there are cell phones for around 40$ which you can use only to start connecting with your Daughter at least once a week. If you have the extra $, send her one too and tell her she can call you anytime for any reason.

With $56 a month to buy soap, TP, toothpaste and brushes, laundry detergent, dish detergent, etc... There is no way I can afford $40 for a phone. All my husband's income goes to pay his portion of the rent.

There is also Skype, which will enable you to make free phone calls anytime 24-7-365. You just go to their site and join. Later you can even get a couple computer cameras if your Daughter has a comp, and talk face to face!

With an hour a day on the days the library feels like being open (and poor hours to be calling 3 hours difference) being my only online access... And I have no idea what my daughter's connection to computer tech is - but I am sure they won't let her get on without keeping her activity with me severely curtailed.

Good for you! Your sister taking custody of your Daughter is inconsistent with the original agreement. Listen, often times children have to form a shell of protective covering when changes like these happen in their lives and they feel that they have no real say in what happens with or to them.

What they can do is to learn terrible adult habits of playing one against the other, to learn the art of manipulation, to say and do whatever is in their best interest and will keep those that are their caretakers appeased and 'on their side' , even at the expense of saying or agreeing to things which would seem opposite of what they normally would. It is survival level mentality and really very normal in this situation. The insecurity of past has probably been grilled into her, hardwired into her reasoning processes and ability to see things as having changed on your end. Again survival.

Yeah, I really didn't want her to think my sister's behavior is cool. But yes. I think she has been kept from even thinking about us - which would dim her awareness of what she feels for us.

As has been pointed out by others… What can possibly be higher in the interests of a child than to be with his or her natural parents if they WANT the child, and can provide appropriate custody, care and discipline? Who would keep a child from parents willing and able but a monster?

Good points, keep those close to your heart, but remember that although you cannot change how the family views you or your Husband, you cannot undo what has been said to your daughter, you can be a great influence for your daughter and she is the focus here, not the drama or the unjust and victimizing behavior of the other family.

True... Thanks for refocusing me on that. [smile]

Now, it has been a considerable amount of time since she was taken in the eyes of the courts and more importantly the child services who really have the ultimate say. They do have representatives in both States and that can be used to your benefit.

Interestingly... The people in my state say that they can't do anything because the case is out of state. The people in the other state say they can't do anything for me because we live out of state... [sigh] The only option is to hire an atty. And who has money for that?

As her parent you 'will' have to provide safe transportation for her to come home and should be putting that aside, doing whatever possible to get cash, which you will need.

We're working on it - had most of the money but gave it to a friend in crisis (he got to keep his home) and are trying to save up again. It's very slow with virtually all the income going to rent.

Remember, you can never have those years back, those are her private years no matter how young she was, is. She has been in a different environment, different stimuli, different people, and she has grown, every thing we do in life is part of our journey, hers has made her stronger and you will have to respect the changes which have gotten her to where she is now and respect it from your heart with gratitude for the years lost and for her safety and well being, that was your original intent right?

Oh, I have no doubts she has been well cared for. And I accept these lost years. (Though two of them make me angry towards my sister and the rest of the families who actually lied and distorted in their negative responses when we first filed to have her back). And I still am thankful that my sister was there. But to deny her return (and especially with character assassination, likes and wild conjecture stated as fact... Yeah, I'm pissed.

She has grown and survived, she is still and always will be your precious little girl, but when she does come home, you will have to start at ground zero, of course there will be aspects which you can just pick up from where you left off, but there will be a natural adjustment period where you will have to learn to first trust and then love and even like each other again for who each of you are 'now'.

Oh, I am fully aware of this. Still... I wonder. [smile]

*PLEASE do not offer me money. I’m trying to get rid of it from this planet and don’t want it. Instead, send my story to your favorite medium, be it email, blogs, forums, twitter, local media, y’know. I’d rather that form of support.

Never refuse monetary gains when you are in this kind of position, its only money. In the courts systems, you have to go in with solutions, not argument, you go with facts and not conjectures, and you play according to societies rules which mean having the money available to bring her home properly and show you can support her. Take pictures of her space, of her room and what you have ready for her. Take pictures of yourselves and your home, your yard, the community. Send them to your Daughter, and have them available when you go to talk to family social services to get this straightened out.

Well... We will have to move - but there is help locally for that...when she is officially coming. But I will refuse money offered here on ATS because it's against the T&C.

Also, does she have a disability check involved?

Oh, no. My daughter is very healthy, active, lovely and bright. No disability there!

reply to post by Amaterasu


K, well it is a bit more sticky than I first thought even though the disability question was geared towards some unspoken stuff I could sense, it was most likely that your sis works in Child services, and her hubby in an attorneys office.

Until you figure out some way of making money and to play their game with cash in hand this is possibly not going to work out in the short term in the ways you hope it will. However if money is not important to you as you previously stated then saving it once you figure out how to bring it in, shouldn't be an issue.

I digress, the best thing you can do is to continue to make steps which will be most stable and suitable for your daughter. Take an honest look at what you have to offer her verses what your sis does 'at this point'.

I know it will be painful and I fully empathize with what you are experiencing, yet put yourself in your daughters shoes for a minute and sense what she would want for her future. You really can't expect her to assume your values and material ideals as she continues to grow up and look for her home to be a place she is proud of, a place to bring home friends and to feel secure in.

You my friend are probably placing the cart before the horse on this one. If you think waiting until she comes home to get her a place which will be nurturing and a permanent 'home', then you are jumping the gun.

Start by taking those steps which you can do, like writing her letters each week, not about sadness and separation, but simple things, and age responsive things she can relate to, after all you are virtually a stranger who she has yet learned to love and trust.

Let her come to you first in her heart, let her be your guide in this matter and respect her wishes and support what she feels is right for her.

Take it easy, take it slow and try not to 'all the sudden rush in out of the ordinary' with reactions to the changes she is about to go through by moving in with your sis. remember your daughter has grown accustomed to your not contacting her except on the occasions when it is almost a token gesture.

Send pictures, send letters on a consistent basis, it only takes 21 days to establish new habits, so within 3 letters time you will have begun to create something new, a bridge to the rest of your lives together.

Document everything, letters, phone calls, everything. For now begin as soon as possible to call her once a month, you MUST have friends with cell phones, invite them to dinner once a month to barter for the use of their cell phone...

Take it easy, take it slow.

I really hope for the best.

reply to post by Amaterasu

hi amaterasu
my heart goes out to you and your husband. here in the uk we were asked to give guardianship to our grandson (my step grandson) because of neglect from parents (kids having kids). the mother (not related to us), neglected him and he ended up in hospital with the police,health visitors and social services involved. my stepson was and still is gutted over this situation. he tried to attend college as well as part-time jobs to take care of his young family. incidents occured whilst he was away from home.
the problems revealed themselves over the coming months as we looked after him. the unrelated maternal side became very aggressive and violent towards myself and the missus. there was 18 years of violent history on their side to which we became aware of and all of a sudden it was focused on us. he was handed over to us at three months old and he never stopped screaming for at least 18 months. after warnings from all services to back away from us and let us look after him, allegations started which had to be followed up. of course we allowed full disclosure and access to our property in order to allow the authorities to satisfy themselves that we were innocent of any dubious behaviour.
one one occasion when he was 9 months old with help from the social services we allowed his maternal grandmother access to him on boxing day under the assurance that the grandmother was not to contact the mother and inform her of the situation. she went against the agreement and contacted the mother who arrived at her home in a taxi, barged in and started screaming. the baby was left on the kitchen floor whilst the mother and grandmother brandished knives at each other. it was a good thing the police arrived and they both were arrested.
hell on earth then arrived for my missus. i could not even begin to describe each and every event that occured. i decided to take time off work to make sure my wife and step grandson were safe as implied threats were made to kidnap him with violence. my wife is an angel and has never seen the nasty side of people whereas all my life i have. this affected her really badly and eventually with support (even social services were visiting on an informal basis unpaid to make sure she was ok), she got through it. the mother then attached herself to a local self-styled violent thug who had the idea he would intimidate me. ha! upon approaching him on the only occasion, i assured him that if i ever saw him near my family, i would open the gates of hell on him. that was a promise. he bottled it and we never saw him again.
little lad is coming up three now and we breathed a sigh of relief that he has been given 95% all clear on tests performed on him (waiting for the lead one) for long term problems due to injuries and malnutrition sustained before we got him.
we have full guardianship and his mother decided never to see him again (involved with drugs etc..). father dotes him and has access as many times as he can with our and services blessing. maternal grandmother has supervised contact only due to her violent behaviour and we have the final say on any contact.

i will say to you you need to keep a diary and fill it with your thoughts regarding the situation you and your husband found yourselves in. one day you can hand it/them to your daughter for her to read and understand the difficulties you both faced.
i wish you both the best for the future and just remember she is your daughter and no-one will ever change that. i would also contest the adoption as there are in my opinion no grounds for them to disallow you contact one way or another with your daughter. keep pushing and keep writing to the authorities in both states. the more letters they recieved i feel the more they will realise that there is love and concern here. someone in the loop of decisions must have a heart and concience. you need to find that 'someone'
take care and godspeed.
f

It isn't kidnapping, and you've dealt and continue to deal with this situation in a manner which is not to your child's best interests and is in direct conflict with your stated goals.

What this says to me is that you like to be a martyr, and prefer having a real good excuse for it over actually doing the right things in the right way to achieve a good outcome for you and your daughter. I believe strongly that in most cases, people's actions do line up with their real most important goal - and in your case that most important goal is to be a martyr of your own story and get attention for it.

When you line up your internal wanted outcome with your stated outcomes, and it shows an empathetic set of actions based on the real circumstances of the situation, THEN I'll have some sympathy for you.

You are getting what you want. The existence of this very thread proves you are seeking and getting what you really want.

If you're serious about wanting your daughter back you need to move to where she is and begin rebuilding a relationship with her. As long as you are 3000 miles away and as broke as you claim you are just spitting into the wind.

Originally posted by Aeons
It isn't kidnapping, and you've dealt and continue to deal with this situation in a manner which is not to your child's best interests and is in direct conflict with your stated goals.

What this says to me is that you like to be a martyr, and prefer having a real good excuse for it over actually doing the right things in the right way to achieve a good outcome for you and your daughter. I believe strongly that in most cases, people's actions do line up with their real most important goal - and in your case that most important goal is to be a martyr of your own story and get attention for it.

When you line up your internal wanted outcome with your stated outcomes, and it shows an empathetic set of actions based on the real circumstances of the situation, THEN I'll have some sympathy for you.

You are getting what you want. The existence of this very thread proves you are seeking and getting what you really want.

edit on 2011/1/13 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

LOL! If you say so. But frankly, this was motivated by the (very) recent declaration that my sister plans to adopt my child against my will. No, I do NOT like to be a martyr. I want my daughter back, and this last is a long line of things - from being lied to to being lied about. After over two years, I am finally reaching out for support. And I get YOU. [sigh]


EDIT to add:

Here: eve3.wordpress.com...

I think you will find that it IS kidnapping when lies and misinformation are used to secure a child.

BTW, I think it may be crucial to know that my sister has been unable to conceive - and she has wanted her own child for many years. I finally have one (I was 46) that I had been waiting all my life for...and she takes my child from me.

Originally posted by hawkiye
If you're serious about wanting your daughter back you need to move to where she is and begin rebuilding a relationship with her. As long as you are 3000 miles away and as broke as you claim you are just spitting into the wind.

I know it would be far easier... Do you have a suggestion on how this can be accomplished? I mean, with no money.

Wow, that is sad as hell. I opened up the thread, thinking that it was going to be yet another story about the kidnapping child services agency. Your own blood though, that is cold.

reply to post by antar


I see your points. The issue is that while we are struggling, they will adopt - and that will be that. The end.

Oh, I wanted to add something about your comment that I should be open to money offered... I will not accept money - but round-trip bus tickets (will not fly if I have to deal with thugs) for two and a one-way back for one... Hotel or motel accommodations... I might consider these things.

reply to post by TKDRL


Yeah. It's very sad. I never thought my sister would do this to me.

Thanks for your support.

How old is your daughter? Is this your only child?

Why on earth would you have a child at your age?

Why on earth would you not get off your duff and get your butt to your sisters and participate in the remaking of a family? You do not have a job, well then, this is your job. The pay stinks but the traveling is good--get your thumb in the air and get to your daughter now. What is your sister going to do, close the door in your face?

I am sorry. I am very sorry. I hate feeling the kind of cruelty that wells up in me when I hear a sob story coming from someone who thinks the system is not working for them.

Go get your daughter and if your sister doesn't listen because she has legal standing then park your butt on her lawn and participate in the Family! Make a shelter in the front lawn if you have to and make noise! Call the media (local to your daughter) when you get there and publicly acknowledge your intentions. Seriously, be a proactive productive Mommy! If not for yourself than at least for your daughter; one day this will be a good memory of how you overcame this and held firm in your Love and Commitment to your child.

I am so very sorry you feel like you are left to "others" to make your world come together. It won't happen unless you make it happen. Go make it happen! You blew it, but you can make a new world out of the ashes, you just have to stop listening to your sister and get there, be next to your child right this very minute! There are no days left for remorse we must act on our Love at this very moment in Mankind's History!!

It is the end of the end of the end, only you can create a new beginning!

reply to post by Amaterasu


Good, and even if you do not come home with your Daughter, you will have had the chance to hug her, to let her know that you are there for her during this change in her life. Be there for the court hearing if you can, and show that even though you are not together, this is important to you.

reply to post by Greensage


I don't sense it is so much a sob story, but a member who is at a desperate point in her life, a cross roads for the most important person in her life. The feeling of needing to rush in where fools tread and to try and upturn the cart is a natural emotion for a loving Mother who may not be in this moment prepared as society see's fit, or in a position to fight the system.

She came for suggestions, guidance and support and that is who we here at ATS are regardless of the situation, it may not be something everyone would care to comment about or to chime in on, but somewhere someone would and she knew that starting this thread.

Amertarasu has been there enough time for others, she deserves all the dignity and support we can give her right now, she is suffering and vulnerable, but hopefully will also come out stronger not beaten down or weakened by our responses.

Also she would be hauled off by the Police if she did the irrational things you suggested, think about it for a minute and from what we have learned, her main concern is/was her daughters well being and watching her Mother grovel and degrade herself would be more than the little girl could bear.

"Many people assume that celebrities who have babies after 40 must have undergone expensive fertility treatment. That is simply not true. I am a well-known celebrity and conceived naturally after 40. A woman's reproductive system does not know whether or not she is famous. Our bodies are just the same as those of non-celebrities. Some of us will conceive easily the natural way and others may need a little help. All the fame and money in the world will not have any influence on the outcome, whether natural or assisted."

Actress and Singer

www.mothersover40.com...

Jane Seymour Twins at 44
Susan Sarandon 46
Jerry Hall 41
Madona 41
Lisa Hartman Black 44
Cheryl Tiegs twins at 52
Beverly DeAngelo Twins 49
Gina davis twins 48


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And the list goes on, many women wait to bear children until they are maternally mature, socially, emotionally, materialistically, others as a second chance at parenthood and the love of raising a child.

reply to post by antar


Sob it was, I felt the heartstrings being pulled and they felt a bit tight.

I do not question a woman who does birth after 40, I question a woman who does and cannot maintain herself as a Mom. I am male and I have enough motherly instinct in me to know I never separate myself from my child, especially under these circumstances.

I am actually more inclined to believe that Spirit Work is afoot here. The OP needs to overcome her fear and inabilities regarding life, she does not need to be raising a child at this late time because she has failed herself. Her sister, who is barren, has desired to help and now is engrossed in providing care and Love to a child; a motherly instinct that she is only now expressing more permanently. This is Great Spirit Work, the real Mom is the Aunt, the Mother needs to heal and become friends with her estranged child (probably years from now), and the best thing the OP can do is Learn from this experience and see how she was an instrument of Happiness!

Think about all the children who were raised by their real parents who later never talk to them because of the lack of friendship and respect. Being the actual birth-parent and being a participating parent are very different; a child responds to love not "I lost my job and feared, but..." see, a Sob story for sure!

So either or, it is still the choice of the Mother, go be with your daughter, play it nicely with the sister or don't, but be with your daughter and be a Mom, or realize that being an instrument of Happiness is a good thing. I bet her sister is caring for that child with the right tools to make it work in creating a happy Adult. I don't know the sister but if she is wicked then refer to my original posting. You decide! Please no more babies, and please reach out and educate your daughter so that she does not follow your lead.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by hawkiye
If you're serious about wanting your daughter back you need to move to where she is and begin rebuilding a relationship with her. As long as you are 3000 miles away and as broke as you claim you are just spitting into the wind.

I know it would be far easier... Do you have a suggestion on how this can be accomplished? I mean, with no money.

You know, it's not really our turn to watch you. You're doing a good job of playing victim here. Don't tell us you have no money. Somehow you manage to hang out on ATS. You have at least access to a computer and internet access. If you REALLY want to be a Mom, you would move 3,000 miles, get a job, and prove you are capable of getting your daughter back.

Just do it!