TOO LATE FOR PROTESTS!!

I have to agree proud American. I'm against the war but I do not see the sense in Vilifying the armed forces when they do go to war. Dom, I can see your point but you have to admit you would be pleased to have the armed forces if this was a just cause, a different conflict, in a different time. And as you say the responsibility for any deaths will be at the leaders feet, for the soldiers are under obligation to do what the politicians tell them. I'd bet there's plenty of them who have reservations about this. I seen a report yesterday that the British solders had said the lack of support back home 'nags away at them'

i think that all those soldiers risking their lifes are good ppl, they fight for rights, but the enemy is managing them, bush is not fighting for the freedom of anyone, is fighting for a non good purpose, he is just a peon for the final check mate....
I really don�t understand what do u support in this war, i mean , what is the real reason that makes all of u so convinced that this war has a meaning?
Just going to the past iroshima nagasaki, what then, was that a terrorist attack? or because is revenge from the 10k ppl dead in pearl harbour, they were allowed to kill 150k in 3 seconds, and called that fair or justice....
I don�t think they are right in anything, is not protesting, or complaining
is just logica, america is the most armed and dangerous country in the world, best army, most technological stuff,
best weapons, bio-quimic stuff also, satellites etc etc....
America is the culture of the action films, with bombs terrorist, attacks and stuff, america is the country with ppl going to universities with a rifle and killing everything around, or all that kind of things, shows that first u should look what is going on inside your country already, to look for "help the planet killing a dictator like saddam", what gives USA the right to say that is good,
and that is wrong? is that objective? NO.Democracy NO. Listen to the rest of the world for their opinions NO.
I really respect those ppl that are gonna fight for something they believe in as it is fight for your ppl, i really apreciate that, but u must realize that the ppl that controls upstairs in america, are more dangerous than saddam or whoever....., and those are ruling the soldiers, maybe a soldiers, or a captain has good motivation for do what he is doing, but the real meaning of it it�s only known upstairs, so a soldier doesn�t know all, he just gets the order to DO.
I really don�t know if we still thinking that is right to grab irak kill around with missiles, and army, and flights and etc etc, just because of 1 men....., then all the world should have killed almost every president on the united states, btw u should inform about the operations
from USA in South america for political, corruption and stuff like that, or the problems that america had with asiatic countries, also in here, europe, kosovo, and many more, because they did also massacres without justice, with terms like "colateral damage" and so on....
There will be no understanding betweem human beens if there is agression violence or weapons between....
Saddam is a killer, YES, Bush is a Killer YES, EVERY PRESIDENT IS a Killer YES, so they just try to give excuses for what they are doing, that we don�t know the real purpose of it (or maybe it is too obvious now), but stills no Logica or good purpose in any of the actions of the politicians-puppets..

If we have to act against the crimes comitted from america in the whole history we should have raze those elitists from time ago,
and i still say that is not against american citizens, because u are persons like all of us, with rights to live,with your nature
and traditions and language etc etc, like another country, it doesn�t mean that america has Bad ppl because of their
elitist, but in your country u are being much more brainwashed that what we are being in the rest of the world.
I really hope that ppl one day will realize that peace can�t be forced with violence or weapons, it must come from everyone,
it has to be a human kind understanding about this matter......
We don�t need nuclear winters, kills massacres, because of 1 men in the goverment, imagine yourself being iraki, and having
no clue what bush or Saddam are doing, u are just a person that wants a normal life, without problems and being able to survive
with your family, and what do u get? a mad person "controlling the country" and one more mad "ultra destroying it", what do
u have to do with all these as an iraki citizen? can they blame u for bio-weapons? stuff like that? no, u are just a normal person
that wants to live with humility , and what he gets? bombs, from both sides, his own president and U.N USA AND EUROPE
the 3 most brutal and powerful unions in the world....
What is fair about that? sorry i don�t get it..

1. Saddam lost the Gulf War. To stop the war, and stay in power, he made certain agreements. In 12 years, he has failed to honor those agreements, and thus, has forfeit his right to stay in power.

2. He is a known sponsor of terrorism. He funds terrorists, has some nuclear capability, he allows terrorist camps within his borders.

3. He has attacked his own citizens with the very WOMD he continues to hide.

That's why this war has meaning.....

Originally posted by Gazrok
1. Saddam lost the Gulf War. To stop the war, and stay in power, he made certain agreements. In 12 years, he has failed to honor those agreements, and thus, has forfeit his right to stay in power.

2. He is a known sponsor of terrorism. He funds terrorists, has some nuclear capability, he allows terrorist camps within his borders.

3. He has attacked his own citizens with the very WOMD he continues to hide.

That's why this war has meaning.....

1. correct thats why we're dealing with him since November. But need i remind you that the US-led Embargo on Iraq claimed 500 000 victims ? And need i remind you that the US and UK also didnt hold their part of the agreement by bombing Iraq regularly during the past 10 years ?

2. There is no evidence for your claims. It's all speculation and forgery. (perhaps this will change in the next days)

3. again, we dont have evidence on that, just faint speculative evidence. The gassings happened through the Iran/Iraq war and it is also possible the iranians did it... Moreover the US has its fingers in these gassings.

Originally posted by dom
I have nothing against the armed services, but I won't be supporting them in this war. They volunteered to be in the military, they knew what they were doing, and the blame for any of their deaths will be placed squarely at the feet of Tony Blair and George Bush. Individually I hope they all come back, but I'm afraid I have no moral obligation to make them feel good about themselves.

Free speech should not end because our politicians didn't bother to listen to us.

Your free speech shouldn't and won't end. I respect your view Dom.

[Edited on 18-3-2003 by ProudAmerican]

It's hard to believe there are conservative right-wingers on a conspiracy oriented website such as this. Don't you think it's kind of Anti-American to antagonize a country without being provoked? Don't you think it is odd that we can have WMD (Nukes/HAARP/etc.) yet Saddam Hussein can't have WMD? I've really had enough of the chickhawk politicians that constantly lie to their citizens (forged documents, no proof of Saddamn having WMD, originally we were determined to dissarm him and now we want to fully remove his regime).

Don't get me wrong, I pray for our troops safety, but this is a war that President Bush (who was elected because of the voting miscount incident in Florida, and that also skipped out on National Guard service for a year) should be fighting on his own. Also, do you really think Bush is a holy person, for some reason I don't think Jesus or anybody religious that has some sense of morality would lead a pre-empitive strike (wait he's no leading it, he's hiding in Camp David where he's safe). How much proof do you guys need that the administration is totally corrupt, half of the administration can't even converse intelligently at press conferences. I'm sorry you pro-war people have had your minds swayed by the endless propaganda on television (all of which is RIGHT-WING BIASED, ESPECIALLY FOX WHICH CLAIMS TO BE FAIR AND BALANCED (which obviously is a joke)). This is a president who is trading our freedom for security each in everyday, attempting to weaken the constitution (through the Patriot Act, and soon more acts for sure, since we're possibly going to be the target of increased terrorism since we pissed off the entire world except Tony Blair, and a few leaders which we have bought out).

Another thing, I can't stand these people that protest the French. I mean come on, how childish is to change French Fries to Freedom Fries. Our country is going down the drain, unfortunately like all governments (they all fail, which is the cause of the human races inherant evil).

Flame me if you wish.

Just remember this...If they didn't volunteer then YOU wouldn't have anyone to protect YOU and your friends and fellow Americans. Many many soldiers have died to protect the innocent as they will comtinue to do so. They put their brave lives on the line so you can sit here and type about how you don't support them? This is a very disturbing remark to me....I hope you really don't mean it

yep, i also thing that not just desert storms were conspiracy, also the gassing....
But can i ask u something? what happend in gulf
war was that iran changed the prize of the oil, and that
affect irak in way that ppl were starving in 1 of the worst moments for the country in all it�s history....
Was a big crisis, so saddan said to iranis about it, but
they have a little rivalty and they didn�t want to do it,
so saddam attacked, ASKING BEFORE USA, and BUSH SAYS, WE DO NOT KNOW AND INTERFERE IN ARAB CONFLICTS, WE�VE GOT NOTHING TO DO IN THIS MATTER, then 2 days after, they said that they�ve lied
to saddam, to wait till his tyranny bla bla bla bla bla,
as always there is parts really scary about that, irak
was starving due to the issue with iran, they try to resolve it and from 10.000 km amercian army came
to end this saying what was right and wrong.
Does any country on the world go to america, and tell to bush,
STOP USING RESERACH AND TEST,NUCLEAR WEAPONS, STOP DESTROYING THE ENVIRONMENT, STOP LETTING STARVE ALL THOSE COUNTRIES WHILE SPENDING ALL THAT MONEY IN MILITARY COSTS FOR WARS AGAINST INVISIBLE ENEMIES,
STOP BLAMING COUNTRIES FOR THINGS THAT AREN�T TRUTH,
STOP PLAYING BEING GOD AND DEICIDE FOR THE LIVES OF 6 BILLION PPL IN THIS WORLD.

The answer is NO!
Why?

Just to make it clear, I'm not American, but if I was, I still wouldn't support the armed forces in this.

And the reason is simple, in the past I've felt that the military have been on the right side of the argument. This time I'm afraid that our military is being used as a tool of tyranny.

Gazrok - Your point 2) above... there's still no evidence that he's supporting terrorists (maybe their families yes, but not terrorists). There is no possibility that he has nuclear production facilities (and I guarantee none will be found). There is also no terrorist training camp. It was set up in 1985 by British intelligence services to train the Iraqi's in how to deal with hijackings by Islamist terrorists (at the time this was a real threat from Syria and Iran). That's why there is a plane at the site... this camp is a counterterrorist training camp...

Originally posted by dom
our military is being used as a tool of tyranny......
........
Gazrok - Your point 2) above... there's still no evidence that he's supporting terrorists (maybe their families yes, but not terrorists). There is no possibility that he has nuclear production facilities (and I guarantee none will be found). There is also no terrorist training camp. It was set up in 1985 by British intelligence services to train the Iraqi's in how to deal with hijackings by Islamist terrorists (at the time this was a real threat from Syria and Iran). That's why there is a plane at the site... this camp is a counterterrorist training camp...

Exactly! Only fools support President Bush in this war.

Originally posted by Attero Auctorita

Exactly! Only fools support President Bush in this war.

If you read the original post, you would realize nobody is asking anyone to support the President, I was asking people to support the troops who are sacrificing their lives for their country. Do you think they are robots? No, they're human like you and I, they have families, children, and are sacrificing what they have so you can live free. Why is that so hard to understand? Personally, I do see Saddam as a threat to our freedom and our peaceful way of life. He has killed over and over and the people in Iraq have every right to live free just the way we live free. Whether the war is justified or not is a different issue than facing the fact that we are going to war and the brave, courageous soldiers need the support of the people that they represent. This thread wasn't intented to be a debate about whether or not war is justified. It was to realize that we are going to war whether you like it or not, therefore you should support the troops, not the president or his reasons. I'm pretty darn sure these troops would rather be home with their spouses and children, enjoying their freedom just like you and me!!!! THEY DESERVE OUR SUPPORT!!!

Originally posted by ProudAmerican

This thread wasn't intented to be a debate about whether or not war is justified. It was to realize that we are going to war whether you like it or not, therefore you should support the troops, not the president or his reasons. I'm pretty darn sure these troops would rather be home with their spouses and children, enjoying their freedom just like you and me!!!! THEY DESERVE OUR SUPPORT!!!



Well i gotta tell ya, that for me say "u should support the troops not the president or his reasons" is like
say, don�t care about a non-sense action, just support it! if u don�t like it support it! if u don�t agree support it!
if it has no sense support it!
I can understand proud american saying that, if my father has to go 2morrow to war i�ll support, but
the problem is not because of my family gets afected, when there is no way, no sense, no rationalism on the actions there is no justification, and try to get a reason
to support troops to kill more people, is useless,
maybe u hate bush more than anyone here does, and that u respect ppl risking their lives to fight for the "suposed Freedom of everyone" but ppl�s intention never is the real intention, is a secondary fact, the important is who thought that , how, and why.
Saying that u don�t support bush actions but u do support your troops is completely wrong in my sight

[qoute]Saying that u don�t support bush actions but u do support your troops is completely wrong in my sight


I totally disagree, but thanks for your input.

I totally agree with you Proud American.
Recently there were anti-war protesters out at Vandenburg Air Force Base. One guy threw blood on the fence. (trying to make some kind of statement) Well he was arrested. Vandenburg stated that if war breaks out trespassers will be shot. They will use deadly force!

They will use deadly force!

I dont think so, too much of a mess

You can send your thanks to the US Military by visiting this site. More than 6.4 million people have signed Defend America's online Thank You Note to the men and women of the U.S. military.

www.defendamerica.mil...

Just hoping to get a few people to sign this.

www.defendamerica.mil...