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Atheist extremism
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So, Christian extremism results in some pretty bad things, a lot of them violent.
Islamic extremism results in some pretty bad things too, a lot of them are also violent.
Same goes for Hindu extremism.
But what about atheist extremism?
Why do I always hear about atheist extremists when there's really no evidence to show that people haven't been killed due to atheism?
Who has died in the name of not believing in god(s)?
(Sorry to start a thread when I'm leaving others unattended, I only have time for short posts right now and I wanted to get his out there)
Islamic extremism results in some pretty bad things too, a lot of them are also violent.
Same goes for Hindu extremism.
But what about atheist extremism?
Why do I always hear about atheist extremists when there's really no evidence to show that people haven't been killed due to atheism?
Who has died in the name of not believing in god(s)?
(Sorry to start a thread when I'm leaving others unattended, I only have time for short posts right now and I wanted to get his out there)
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
Most Atheists are stronger mentally, and therefor do not feel the need to kill. I believe that believing in any God makes you weak, or any superstition. They don't need anyone to "show them the way". At least what I can tell from where I live.
Most Atheists are stronger mentally, and therefor do not feel the need to kill. I believe that believing in any God makes you weak, or any superstition. They don't need anyone to "show them the way". At least what I can tell from where I live.
edit on 10-12-2010 by Gnarly because:
Gramma PO LEASE.
Actually...
There have been many that have died from hard athiest retoric.
Stalin, Mao, etc...
Sadly, people like this twit give atheism a bad name.
But, he was trying to turn atheism into a religion in itself...oh well, I guess there are nuts on every side of an argument
There have been many that have died from hard athiest retoric.
Stalin, Mao, etc...
Stalin followed the position adopted by Lenin that religion was an opiate that needed to be removed in order to construct the ideal communist society. To this end, his government promoted atheism through special atheistic education in schools, massive amounts of anti-religious propaganda, the antireligious work of public institutions (especially the Society of the Godless), discriminatory laws, and also a terror campaign against religious believers. By the late 1930s it had become dangerous to be publicly associated with religion.[79]
Stalin's role in the fortunes of the Russian Orthodox Church is complex. Continuous persecution in the 1930s resulted in its near-extinction as a public institution: by 1939, active parishes numbered in the low hundreds (down from 54,000 in 1917), many churches had been leveled, and tens of thousands of priests, monks and nuns were persecuted and killed. Over 100,000 were shot during the purges of 1937–1938.[80] During World War II, the Church was allowed a revival as a patriotic organization, after the NKVD had recruited the new metropolitan, the first after the revolution, as a secret agent. Thousands of parishes were reactivated until a further round of suppression in Khrushchev's time. The Russian Orthodox Church Synod's recognition of the Soviet government and of Stalin personally led to a schism with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.
Just days before Stalin's death, certain religious sects were outlawed and persecuted. Many religions popular in the ethnic regions of the Soviet Union including the Roman Catholic Church, Uniats, Baptists, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. underwent ordeals similar to the Orthodox churches in other parts: thousands of monks were persecuted, and hundreds of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, sacred monuments, monasteries and other religious buildings were razed.
Sadly, people like this twit give atheism a bad name.
But, he was trying to turn atheism into a religion in itself...oh well, I guess there are nuts on every side of an argument
edit on 10-12-2010
by SaturnFX because: for to from...
It doesn't matter whether you're religous or not. It is in our nature to fight.Polictical,religous, moral, even lack of belief leads to viloence. We
have as human being have "evolved" beyond the threat of natural enemies due to our "superior intellect."Our enemy is no longer the other creatures
of this planet that would if we where not able to build our tools and weapons would most definitely eat us all.Not to say that they don't try. So we
create among each other enemies and purposes other than survival. We deep down in our cores are just animals.We act as animals do. And yes animals
war, rape, and murder just like us but we do it more savagely and not for survival but for what ever threatens our group or individual distinctions.
Originally posted by Gnarly
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
Most Atheists are stronger mentally,
Wow...over-generalize much?
That simply isn't true and is completely baseless and unsubstantiated...This type of superiority complex is akin to how people used to think about skin colors as well. I hope you aren't an atheist, or else you just filled this thread with enough irony to make this website implode.
What if there is a third option that both atheist and religious views do not take into account?
Regardless of your view the truth will still be the truth. I see the need to defends ones beliefs or lack there of as a need to bolster the ego.
The truth needs no defence.
Regardless of your view the truth will still be the truth. I see the need to defends ones beliefs or lack there of as a need to bolster the ego.
The truth needs no defence.
You will unfortunately find extremists in every religion, or in your case, non religion. To assume that one specific group doesn't have any, is
naive.
You will find extremists everywhere, not only in areas of religion, they are literally everywhere:
Political:
www.iss.co.za...
www.rickross.com...
www.kkk.com... (poor reputation site according to WOT I'm simply making an example)
Religious:
www.rickross.com...
www.richardsilverstein.com... or-department/
Ugh! Here, check em out for yourself, the list is endless:
www.rickross.com...
And so you will most certainly find them in atheist groups as well. It's unfortunate that they even exist (in any group), but it's true. Any group of people, that's hates another and takes action on it, is called an extremist group. You want to tell me that atheists don't hate any other groups? Your OP alone proves your dislike towards religions, as it is completely one sided. Whether or not you go and take action on such feelings, is completely a choice you make. If you make a choice to become violent, or create a hate-group for it, then you will by definition be an extremist and yes, people that are willing to go over to violent action, can and will join your group in such a case, even if it goes against what your group stands for.
Some people are just plain nuts. Where the lines are drawn on how far they can go, in their minds, it's just completely blurred and we can not possibly control their choices and behavior. Nor can you blame a certain religion (in your OP instance) for the behavior of such an extremist group. You can not generalize, and claim it's religion's fault. My belief doesn't teach violence, does your non belief? Can I hold you responsible, or say it's your atheism that caused something? So religion, as it is not alive, could not have taken the decision or made anybody do something, that goes against it's teachings. It is the individual that makes those choices.
It is unacceptable, no matter what the religion, belief, faction, group etc.
You will find extremists everywhere, not only in areas of religion, they are literally everywhere:
Political:
www.iss.co.za...
www.rickross.com...
www.kkk.com... (poor reputation site according to WOT I'm simply making an example)
Religious:
www.rickross.com...
www.richardsilverstein.com... or-department/
Ugh! Here, check em out for yourself, the list is endless:
www.rickross.com...
And so you will most certainly find them in atheist groups as well. It's unfortunate that they even exist (in any group), but it's true. Any group of people, that's hates another and takes action on it, is called an extremist group. You want to tell me that atheists don't hate any other groups? Your OP alone proves your dislike towards religions, as it is completely one sided. Whether or not you go and take action on such feelings, is completely a choice you make. If you make a choice to become violent, or create a hate-group for it, then you will by definition be an extremist and yes, people that are willing to go over to violent action, can and will join your group in such a case, even if it goes against what your group stands for.
Some people are just plain nuts. Where the lines are drawn on how far they can go, in their minds, it's just completely blurred and we can not possibly control their choices and behavior. Nor can you blame a certain religion (in your OP instance) for the behavior of such an extremist group. You can not generalize, and claim it's religion's fault. My belief doesn't teach violence, does your non belief? Can I hold you responsible, or say it's your atheism that caused something? So religion, as it is not alive, could not have taken the decision or made anybody do something, that goes against it's teachings. It is the individual that makes those choices.
It is unacceptable, no matter what the religion, belief, faction, group etc.
Now...face to face, I would much rather be dealing with a angry fanatical athiest than a angry fanatical anything else.
As a single person (that doesn't have a legion of soldiers to command), a angry rabid athiest will simply come across as an ass. arrogant, matter of factly, and self superiority complex...but fairly non-violent because of it.
angry extreme theists tend to have guns or bombs to prove their point sadly...however, anyone with power, theist or atheist, will corrupt and destroy. This much history proves.
I think ultimately, tolerance and reason is the most critical thing to teach everyone straight across the board...pity there is no extremist rabid fanatical reasonist or tolerantism going on...I could get behind that.
As a single person (that doesn't have a legion of soldiers to command), a angry rabid athiest will simply come across as an ass. arrogant, matter of factly, and self superiority complex...but fairly non-violent because of it.
angry extreme theists tend to have guns or bombs to prove their point sadly...however, anyone with power, theist or atheist, will corrupt and destroy. This much history proves.
I think ultimately, tolerance and reason is the most critical thing to teach everyone straight across the board...pity there is no extremist rabid fanatical reasonist or tolerantism going on...I could get behind that.
reply to post by SaturnFX
But that was an issue of Marxism, not atheism. Atheists don't all believe religion is an opiate. Hell, I've met several who've told me religion is necessary for our world to function.
"I don't believe in god(s)" needs a political ideology added to make it burn down churches.
The thing is that you can shift that situation regardless of the religious contents. You can burn down Churches because they're not the right one or because they're not Mosques.
My point here isn't that atheists can't be extremists...they just can't be extremist about atheism.
Atheism in and of itself is nonbelief in any deity. It doesn't have any other strings attached.
Also also, in case it was brought up, yes Stalin and Mao were atheists.
But Hitler was a Christian.
And atheism had nothing to do with Stalin and Mao just like Christianity didn't really have as much to do with Hitler's ideas.
But that was an issue of Marxism, not atheism. Atheists don't all believe religion is an opiate. Hell, I've met several who've told me religion is necessary for our world to function.
"I don't believe in god(s)" needs a political ideology added to make it burn down churches.
The thing is that you can shift that situation regardless of the religious contents. You can burn down Churches because they're not the right one or because they're not Mosques.
My point here isn't that atheists can't be extremists...they just can't be extremist about atheism.
Atheism in and of itself is nonbelief in any deity. It doesn't have any other strings attached.
Also also, in case it was brought up, yes Stalin and Mao were atheists.
But Hitler was a Christian.
And atheism had nothing to do with Stalin and Mao just like Christianity didn't really have as much to do with Hitler's ideas.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by SaturnFX
But that was an issue of Marxism, not atheism. Atheists don't all believe religion is an opiate. Hell, I've met several who've told me religion is necessary for our world to function.
Oh hell, I never said it made sense..makes no sense for any christian violence in history either considering it clearly teaches to turn the other cheek, murder is unacceptable, only the sinless can cast stones, etc etc etc...but yet, there it is.
oh, and incidently, I agree with Stalin...religion -is- a drug for many. a escape...a comfortable delusion to cloud your understanding of reality.
"I don't believe in god(s)" needs a political ideology added to make it burn down churches.
The thing is that you can shift that situation regardless of the religious contents. You can burn down Churches because they're not the right one or because they're not Mosques.
If it goes against your agenda then you will. Religion holds power in many,
Ultimately your making a point that it makes no sense...yet there it is, the quotes, the actions, etc..I don't understand insanity. I don't understand what these jacktards were doing or why, but I do know at least the facts. The facts go against the philosophy, but its still facts...and well...what comes first, facts or philosophy?
Also also, in case it was brought up, yes Stalin and Mao were atheists.
But Hitler was a Christian.
Extremism happens. yep. People hate considering other positions opposite their own...sometimes violently so. Watch some 3rd world nation political congresses...hell, some of them erupt into fistfights...and thats just politics.
And atheism had nothing to do with Stalin and Mao just like Christianity didn't really have as much to do with Hitler's ideas.
Felt the need to post this
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a9f34fe74f40.jpg[/atsimg]
(God with us)
Anyhow, I agree...what they did should not reflect or be associated with atheism in the same way that germany's expansion should not reflect christianity.
But, Christianity does love a good war...
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
madnessinmysoul,
Extremists do not know they are extremists. It's those out around them that see it from what comes of it. This is why a foundation for our understanding is needed. You do not see things exactly the same as other Atheists. No matter where we look you see people going out and on too far. Christianity that has gone apostate has been bad up through the dark ages especially. True Christianity in this world has a hard time to survive expecially these days. This I know though, the really True ones have the right foundation.
You ask then the following question,
"Who has died in the name of not believing in god(s)?"
All are appointed to die once and all beliefs have people in them that have been the cause of deaths.
But the big one is, we don't have to die twice and most will.
Truthiron.
Extremists do not know they are extremists. It's those out around them that see it from what comes of it. This is why a foundation for our understanding is needed. You do not see things exactly the same as other Atheists. No matter where we look you see people going out and on too far. Christianity that has gone apostate has been bad up through the dark ages especially. True Christianity in this world has a hard time to survive expecially these days. This I know though, the really True ones have the right foundation.
You ask then the following question,
"Who has died in the name of not believing in god(s)?"
All are appointed to die once and all beliefs have people in them that have been the cause of deaths.
But the big one is, we don't have to die twice and most will.
Truthiron.
Atheist extremism basically becomes sort of a reverse theocracy. Where Atheism rarely is the core trigger for such atrocities, extreme Atheistic
policies are generally core components. But I would argue that Catholicism wasn't really the core cause of the Inquisition or Crusades, merely the
convenient excuse that was used.
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
I would call the Atheist lobby groups in the USA who go around demanding that crosses be removed from War Memorials to be extremists . The Soviet Union has already been mentioned in this thread but it is worth remembering that such things as Gulags(SP?) existed , hardly a sound place of being . Just my ten cents .
Cheers xpert11 .
I would call the Atheist lobby groups in the USA who go around demanding that crosses be removed from War Memorials to be extremists . The Soviet Union has already been mentioned in this thread but it is worth remembering that such things as Gulags(SP?) existed , hardly a sound place of being . Just my ten cents .
Cheers xpert11 .
reply to post by xpert11
Those groups aren't actually considered to be entirely made up of atheists. These secular alliances tend to be made up of more Christians than atheists, simply ones that put forth secular ideas. And these groups do actually not want to simply get rid of crosses, they also ask for the inclusion of all religious and nonreligious symbols.
The thing is that atheism in the Soviet Union was an excuse, not a cause. It was an excuse to sweep away the religious power structure. I'm sure Stalin wouldn't have had a problem with religion if he had complete control of it.
Those groups aren't actually considered to be entirely made up of atheists. These secular alliances tend to be made up of more Christians than atheists, simply ones that put forth secular ideas. And these groups do actually not want to simply get rid of crosses, they also ask for the inclusion of all religious and nonreligious symbols.
The thing is that atheism in the Soviet Union was an excuse, not a cause. It was an excuse to sweep away the religious power structure. I'm sure Stalin wouldn't have had a problem with religion if he had complete control of it.
reply to post by truthiron
Off the top of my head: Socrates.
And it wasn't safe to be an atheist anywhere in Europe or the Americas until well into the eighteenth century.
Who has died in the name of not believing in god(s)?
Off the top of my head: Socrates.
And it wasn't safe to be an atheist anywhere in Europe or the Americas until well into the eighteenth century.
extreme atheism takes you down the road with the satanist, there is another great documentary about a Norwegian Black Metal and Church burnings... It is very sobering watching the Burzum documentary albeit that happened in the early 90's it is surprising how closely their fashion resembles that of todays Atheist proponents, such as Marilyn Manson, and yet their message is the same...
edit on 12/22/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
Stupid video without giving me any background....
Well, that's Norwegian Black Metal...which, though I enjoy listening to, is full of insanity. I hate arson in any form.
Marilyn Manson? Int bis serjeta?...I mean, are you serious? Seriously? Marilyn Manson isn't viewed as an atheist proponent, he's viewed as an attention-seeking shock musician.
Atheist proponents would be people like...Richard Dawkins, who readily admits that many churches are beautiful pieces of architecture. Or Christopher Hitchens, who loves the Baroque architecture of old Malta that is found in so many of our churches. Or Daniel Dennet. Or Sam Harris.
I don't think of many atheists taking Marilyn Manson as a luminary on the subject of atheism.
This idiocy also comes without introduction. And it's also thoroughly debunked. Look in your idiotic thread on the same subject. Darwin opposed slavery and thought of nonwhite individuals highly. He found colonialism abhorrent, valued indigenous cultures, and mocked attempts to 'civilise' indigenous individuals.
Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Stupid video without giving me any background....
extreme atheism takes you down the road with the satanist, there is another great documentary about a Norwegian Black Metal and Church burnings...
Well, that's Norwegian Black Metal...which, though I enjoy listening to, is full of insanity. I hate arson in any form.
It is very sobering watching the Burzum documentary albeit that happened in the early 90's it is surprising how closely their fashion resembles that of todays Atheist proponents, such as Marilyn Manson, and yet their message is the same...
Marilyn Manson? Int bis serjeta?...I mean, are you serious? Seriously? Marilyn Manson isn't viewed as an atheist proponent, he's viewed as an attention-seeking shock musician.
Atheist proponents would be people like...Richard Dawkins, who readily admits that many churches are beautiful pieces of architecture. Or Christopher Hitchens, who loves the Baroque architecture of old Malta that is found in so many of our churches. Or Daniel Dennet. Or Sam Harris.
I don't think of many atheists taking Marilyn Manson as a luminary on the subject of atheism.
This idiocy also comes without introduction. And it's also thoroughly debunked. Look in your idiotic thread on the same subject. Darwin opposed slavery and thought of nonwhite individuals highly. He found colonialism abhorrent, valued indigenous cultures, and mocked attempts to 'civilise' indigenous individuals.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Stupid video without giving me any background...
well that's keeping an open mind for you... I bet you just do not like the titling ?
face it friend... We are the voice of the future
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
No, I've actually encountered this drivel before. It's pointless showing you how it's drivel because you have repeatedly demonstrated that you don't understand the basic concepts of logic and reason, let alone how to use them to refute blatant idiocy.
You are no friend of mine. And always in motion the future is.
Oh, and thanks for ignoring the vast majority of that post to make two half-line comments.
Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
well that's keeping an open mind for you... I bet you just do not like the titling ?
No, I've actually encountered this drivel before. It's pointless showing you how it's drivel because you have repeatedly demonstrated that you don't understand the basic concepts of logic and reason, let alone how to use them to refute blatant idiocy.
face it friend... We are the voice of the future
You are no friend of mine. And always in motion the future is.
Oh, and thanks for ignoring the vast majority of that post to make two half-line comments.
edit on 23/12/10 by madnessinmysoul because: (no
reason given)
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
You are no friend of mine. And always in motion the future is.
Oh, and thanks for ignoring the vast majority of that post to make two half-line comments.
Light always finds its way into the cracks, I am terribly sorry you do not consider me a friend but still on the other hand I can claim that I love you... right here and in front of all these people.
I am shedding hate like it is hot...
open letter to Satan...
Dear evil scum.
I am sorry Satan but the internet is no longer just your playground...
we are taking over ! watch out !
Love:
Cosmic Artifact
edit on 12/23/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)