Leaking Siberian ice raises a tricky climate issue

Originally posted by palg1

Originally posted by DutchBigBoy

Originally posted by nocents
OK correct me if I am wrong.
The premiss of the article is that the melting ice is causing the gas to be released. Yet the article also states that the methane has been leaking for 10,000 years. If the methane has not escaped at the same rate as it is leaked their must be one huge methane bubble under the ice. And this scientist is walking around Siberia with a lighter. This could make Tangusta look like 4th of July celebration.

You aren't wrong it has been leaking for thousands of years but the last 30 years it is accelerating, that is what they are troubled about.

Since it has been leaking for 10,000 years, then it has been warming the planet since the last ice age. Stands to reason that it would eventually reach a tipping point where the warmer planet would cause an increase in the thawing of the tundra. Therefore the leaking methane from the frozen tundra is to blame for climate change, not man. That makes more sense to me now.

edit on 7-12-2010 by palg1 because: (no reason given)

Great thinking and rationale.

reply to post by DutchBigBoy

You aren't wrong it has been leaking for thousands of years but the last 30 years it is accelerating, that is what they are troubled about.

Of course it has been warming for thirty years. It is the upside of the 60yr curve.

Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO)

It is only in recent years that scientists are starting to recognize the influence of atmospheric and oceanic cycles in influencing climate...

A 2008 study – “Oceanic Influences on Recent Continental Warming”, by Compo, G.P., and P.D. Sardeshmukh, (Climate Diagnostics Center, Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences, University of Colorado, and Physical Sciences Division, Earth System Research Laboratory, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration), Climate Dynamics, 2008)

[www.cdc.noaa.gov...] states: “Evidence is presented that the recent worldwide land warming has occurred largely in response to a worldwide warming of the oceans rather than as a direct response to increasing greenhouse gases (GHGs) over land.

This is nothing new as shown by another study: Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic

Solar energy reached a summer maximum (9% higher than at present) ca 11 ka ago and has been decreasing since then, primarily in response to the precession of the equinoxes.

The extra energy elevated early Holocene summer temperatures throughout the Arctic 1-3° C above 20th century averages, enough to completely melt many small glaciers throughout the Arctic, although the Greenland Ice Sheet was only slightly smaller than at present...

As summer solar energy decreased in the second half of the Holocene, glaciers reestablished or advanced, sea ice expanded, and the flow of warm Atlantic water into the Arctic Ocean diminished. Late Holocene cooling reached its nadir during the Little Ice Age (about 1250-1850 AD), when sun-blocking volcanic eruptions and perhaps other causes added to the orbital cooling, allowing most Arctic glaciers to reach their maximum Holocene extent..."

I suggest you google "Maurice Strong" "first Earth Summit" and Shell oil company's "Ged Davis" as well as the banker - "global warming" connections.

Following the big oil connection is a real eye opener. Seems CRU was orginally funded by BP and Shell and continues to be funded by BP and Shell.

This article will give you a real heart attack!

I once watched a documentary, some years ago.
It was called 'The day the oceans caught fire'
All about a time long ago when methane hydrates were released into the atmosphere.
Carbon related global warming is nothing compared to methane.
We are already beyond the tipping point, it won't matter what we do.
Even if we stop right now.

Nobody lives forever but it's the children I feel sorry for.

reply to post by midicon


Yeah, I remember alot of discussion about this recently, to do with the Gulf of Mexico Macondo well (Deepwater Horizon) fissures around the seabed and releasing hydrates. The enormity of that well poses a concern and during investigations I read I'm sure I picked up on the theory it had blown before aeons ago. Can anyone confirm if this theory was banded about or am I imagining it all and? Struck me as coupled with the asteroid that created the GoM it seemed like a pretty doomed place.

Originally posted by Mez353

Originally posted by palg1

Originally posted by DutchBigBoy

Originally posted by nocents
OK correct me if I am wrong.
The premiss of the article is that the melting ice is causing the gas to be released. Yet the article also states that the methane has been leaking for 10,000 years. If the methane has not escaped at the same rate as it is leaked their must be one huge methane bubble under the ice. And this scientist is walking around Siberia with a lighter. This could make Tangusta look like 4th of July celebration.

You aren't wrong it has been leaking for thousands of years but the last 30 years it is accelerating, that is what they are troubled about.

Since it has been leaking for 10,000 years, then it has been warming the planet since the last ice age. Stands to reason that it would eventually reach a tipping point where the warmer planet would cause an increase in the thawing of the tundra. Therefore the leaking methane from the frozen tundra is to blame for climate change, not man. That makes more sense to me now.

edit on 7-12-2010 by palg1 because: (no reason given)

Great thinking and rationale.

edit on 7/12/2010 by Mez353 because: (no reason given)

There is one factor different. Our contribution with the carbon dioxide give this all an extra boost. Before we polluted our atmospere with carbon dioxide there was a steady balance. That balance has been disrupted by our doing.

Here is an other article explained by Dr. Robert Mulvaney.

In the next article he explains the changes in the antarctic. But don't forget Antartica is also a landmass with permafrost.
video.cws.oregonstate.edu...

ANHYDRIDE THEORY by C. Warren Hunt
Methane Effusion from Earth's Interior

Methane effusion from the Earth's interior is a worldwide phenomenon. Hardrock miners and geologists cope with it; petroleum and coal geologists exploit it. Nevertheless, finding it in previously unsuspected places still evokes expressions that verge on wonder. For example, in a recent article on drilling of Indian Ocean crust, Evans (1996) describes "a 0.5 km core of oceanic crustal layer 3, consisting of gabbroic rocks that underlie mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) and extend down several kilometres to the upper mantle. Surprisingly, CH4 is an abundant volatile species in fluid inclusions throughout the length of the core, and in some cases the only major volatile."

Methane is also abundant in many terranes. The conventional sources in sedimentary rocks need no elaboration. Methane encapsulated by seawater, as "hydrates" in the sediments on and immediately below the ocean floors in many places worldwide in volumes comparing with or exceeding the proven gas reserves in conventional fields. Methane influx into hardrock mines in continental shields is widespread and a problem for the miners. Quebec and Ontario mines as well as the Bushveld and Witwatersrand mines are typical in this respect.

cont..................
www.scribd.com...

This is not just in Siberian.

And the cause is not just global warming.

Ice fishermen have been dealing with the problem for a 100 years.
www.iceshanty.com...
www.bismarcktribune.com...

They can be caused by old saw mills and the decaying vegetation from them on the bottom of the lake.

They can also be caused by natural gas(methane) leaking from the ground under the lake or hydrogen sulfide from rotting material.

If you find one of these bubbles you drill a small hole and lite the gas its called a blue angel by ice fisherman.

It also why on some lakes you drill your fishing hole first then move your hut over the hole.

The biggest problem is that when the permafrost is melting more and more, the vegetation in lower layers will start rotting too and create even more methane pockets.

www.livescience.com... onment+%28LiveScience.com+Environment%29&utm_content=Bloglines

John Moore explaining the global warm and the permafrost

Why worry about it the volcanoes are putting more pollutants into the atmosphere then we can in a thousand years.

The whole greenhouse thing is a theory any-ways. And this winter proves it is nothing more. Trust mother earth she knows what she is doing...