[Important] TSA and Venereal Disease and YOU!

Originally posted by Hefficide
You are articulate and well spoken... Can you find me a documented case of a pat search infecting the searchee with a venereal disease?

No, I can't. Then again they have only been doing these more invasive searches for a couple of weeks now and most forms of VD take a while before they are diagnosed, let alone sourced.

That said, even if you set aside the most fantastical claims and stories, we have numerous (and in the case of the child whose shirt was removed, fully documented and vetted) cases in which there is glove to skin contact between the TSA agent and the passenger. We've got a number of anecdotes, for example, which indicate that the pat downs frequently include a quick swipe of the groper's fingers underneat the gropee's waistband.
MRSA facts

Staphylococcus aureus (Staf-lo-coc-cus aw-ree-us ( staph) is a germ that often lives in the noses and on the skin of healthy people and spreads from person to person on contaminated hands, skin, and objects.

You tell me, if a passenger has MRSA living on their skin (and, just to play the math game, mind you that the calculated incident rate of MRSA in the US is 31.8 per 100,000 citizens Source.) and the screeners' gloved finger picks up some of this (doesn't have to be an open wound... only has to be a bit of sweat containing the bacteria)... oopsie! Now everyone that screener also honors with a finger in the waistband has been exposed to MRSA. This is not a joke, either... Western WA has closed down entire schoolrooms & locker rooms for sterilization after 1 or more students is diagnosed with MRSA.

So yeah, a claim of VD risks may be a bit sensationalized, but skin infections like MRSA are very real and very dangerous.

Back to that 31.8 in 100,000 incident rate and why it matters... in contrast, we are undertaking all of these "vital" security measures based on a 1 in 55,000,000 chance of dying in a terrorist based airline attack. source That means we are taking these insane and unconstitutional steps to combat something (TERROR) which is 1/17490th as likely to occur as you getting MRSA, and the agents weren't automatically putting on new gloves or, better yet, fully avoiding skin contact from passenger to passenger from the get-go?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

No, I can't. Then again they have only been doing these more invasive searches for a couple of weeks now and most forms of VD take a while before they are diagnosed, let alone sourced.

True, but as I stated earlier, pat searches have been a part of law enforcement and private security for many decades. So if there were a legitimate risk one would assume that it would have been addressed by now in one of these areas.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

That said, even if you set aside the most fantastical claims and stories, we have numerous (and in the case of the child whose shirt was removed, fully documented and vetted) cases in which there is glove to skin contact between the TSA agent and the passenger. We've got a number of anecdotes, for example, which indicate that the pat downs frequently include a quick swipe of the groper's fingers underneat the gropee's waistband.
MRSA facts

Staphylococcus aureus (Staf-lo-coc-cus aw-ree-us ( staph) is a germ that often lives in the noses and on the skin of healthy people and spreads from person to person on contaminated hands, skin, and objects.

Thank you Burdman30ott6! Now THIS (MRSA) is NOT hyperbolic! I commend you for bringing up a risk that is relevant to the realities of the subject.

Now we are left to debate risk/reward... And that, as a few hundred other threads are proving here, is a very difficult subject to find unity about.

I am sure that risk mitigation for such illnesses as MRSA, strep, staph, etc. could be accomplished through such means as new gloves, hand sanitizers, or hand washing stations. So limiting or minimizing these risks is easily achievable. So the risks should be considered as minimal.

As to reward? Well... In my opinion I still stand by my opinion that these pat searches are preferable to potential loss of human life. Some will suggest that I am a communist, a lemming, naive, a sheep, mindless, unaware of my freedoms, or just plain stupid for thinking this way. But those labels don't change my opinion. In fact to allow criticism to alter my views would actually be to become exactly those things.

I have seen a LOT of posts saying "If we allow this then the next step is.....", leading off to any number of possible fates... some realistic and some utterly bogus and fantasy fueled. As a general rule I don't believe in living my life based upon speculation. I am a realist and I try to make the best sense of what I know to be true. In this subject I find myself caught between two realities... A corrupt government and the threat of terrorism. Ultimate I look at it this way... My corrupt government can take my rights AT WILL. They don't need incremental "super plots" to erode my rights away. President Bush proved that a single stroke of the pen can do that without any games, steps, or illusions.

Given that fact, I am left to assume that the measures taken by the TSA here must really be security based. Even if security is unobtainable, in an absolute sense, risk can be minimized. If this helps to accomplish that, and, thus, save American lives, then I agree to the conditions. Without buying into hyperbole, partisan nonsense, or rhetoric. I choose to accept this step with the understanding that this step cannot and should not lead to the further restrictions that some have suggested on ATS lately.

Trust me, in 6 months if the TSA demands the right to cavity search every passenger, I promise you that I will be here, every bit as enthusiastic and motivated, arguing against THAT as I am presently arguing for THIS.

I guess when it's all said and done, some of us just have different definitions of what "reasonable" search means. For me it is a minimum of inconvenience vs the potential to save life.

~Heff

BTW: one of those stars is from me... I'm not a zealot, or a partisan. I appreciate good sense and sound arguments.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

Nowhere did I refer to you as anything. In fact I have conceded a sympathy for this particular subject. My point is, and has been quite simply to ask for a substantiation of the stated OP... that pat searches can transmit VD.

You are articulate and well spoken... Can you find me a documented case of a pat search infecting the searchee with a venereal disease?

If not then I stand by my initial, and continued statement that this thread is hyperbole and factually inaccurate.

~Heff

Why do you keep up with this?

Are you that embarrassed to have been schooled as badly as you have been?

Geez...

reply to post by MMPI2


Do you actually have any input, other than cheap shots? I mean as much effort as you've put into typing out words, you could at least contribute something. No? Anything?

~Heff

reply to post by MMPI2

Are you that embarrassed to have been schooled as badly as you have been?

Geez...

I don't think that comment contributes anything other than an attack on one of our members. Agree or disagree, but why try and demean someone? Heff is, imo, a valuable part of our team, who treats people with respect and consideration, particularly when he disagrees with someone. I think he is just trying to keep things real in regards to fear mongering. Although I don't personally think the OP intended that, their message could be interpreted that way, and calling out someone's post for what you may see as an exaggeration or half truth is part of what we are all about. But doing so with respect is essential to the overall health of ATS, so please think before cutting on someone.

Now, to lighten the mood on this subject, may I present a TSA skit:


Peace,
spec

Time and time again, certain posters here have incited arguments, asking for "proof" of a certain tenet or opinion or analysis.

And time and time again, these certain lurkers or "trolls" (to use the vernacular) have been provided with support for the original tenets that were presented. However, despite the provision of this data, these posters have persisted with belittling, discounting, attempting to smear, debunk or otherwise derail the thread as it was originally intended.

This thread, for example. This "Heffcide" person, in the second post, mind you, insisted on attempting to derail this thread, originally about the potential spread of disease by the recently initiated TSA "enhanced pat downs", stated this:

"Really?

You come up with this particular view of the world and then source an article entitled "Nearly Half of Black Women Have Herpes" as the grounds for it???

I've grown kind of accustomed to hyperbole and to accepting that some folks connect dots that don't actually connect... But this is by far and away the worst.

Really???

~Heff "

This "comment" was designed to derail what was, and if the data is looked at objectively, an excellent thread for a conspiracy website.

"Heff's" intent was to discourage the OP by attempting to erode the OP's thesis and comments with no actual contribution to the thread. It is a transparent thing that happens frequently on these forums, orchestrated by people with too much time on their hands, and a chip on their shoulder.

Then when "Heff" was provided with the data he so loudly desired, it was again discounted, and in a simpleminded, hamhanded way typical of these people.

Let me tell you something kids...If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Furthermore, pal, no matter how many of your "friends" you direct to this thread to defend your weakness and the spankings you have gotten here, we both know you have been bested.

You and your buddies aren't smart enough to do what you are trying to do. This is not hyperbole. It is fact. Yo can not win, because you don;t have the tools needed for something like this.

The TSA pat downs have spread disease and illness. The TSA pat downs will spread more disease and illness.

None of your whining will change these facts, and none of your buddies here can prevent you from looking more than a little ridiculous when they go back and read this thread in its entirety.

Stop whining about it. Introduce something of material interest, or just go away. You don't need to go away mad...just go away.

Click here for more information.

i got it from getting searched at the airport, baby, i swear to god
see? check out this article on this site that i visit
see? i'm not lying, i love you

reply to post by MMPI2

no matter how many of your "friends" you direct to this thread to defend your weakness

Where did that come from? As one who is part of that accusation for defending my "friend," let me set the record straight and say Heff did NOT "direct" me to anything. The rest is your opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, but accusing him of "directing" his friends to defend him is just untrue.

spec

I'll refer any interested parties to the several links I posted earlier in the thread. One noted an outbreak of scabies at Logan a few days ago. This sort of outbreak did not happen before the TSA started fondling peoples' clothes and belongings, and grabbing their genital areas.

In time, we WILL see more of this. Instead of crabs, though, it will be methicillin-resistant staph and HPV.

[SNIP]

reply to post by MMPI2


No... This post was actually so full of incorrect and misleading information that I actually want to dissect it bit by bit. This kind of dishonesty deserves an extreme about of attention.

Originally posted by MMPI2
Time and time again, certain posters here have incited arguments, asking for "proof" of a certain tenet or opinion or analysis.

Denying ignorance actually requires that one post an OP with actual proof. Is this a difficult concept? We could always just fantasize and speculate forever - but then this would be a creative writing website and NOT ATS.

Originally posted by MMPI2

And time and time again, these certain lurkers or "trolls" (to use the vernacular) have been provided with support for the original tenets that were presented. However, despite the provision of this data, these posters have persisted with belittling, discounting, attempting to smear, debunk or otherwise derail the thread as it was originally intended.

Ad hom attacks are not only against T&C (and yes, I will happily take the dings for my interactions here, with you, as long as they are fairly issued I will not say a word in complaint. I readily admit that your constant slights and insults irked me enough to reciprocate in kind), but they are also a sure sign that a posters position is untenable and weak.

If you can't bring substance then bring insults and slanders. But I don't need to do that. All you've done from your first post, until this one, is to bring NOTHING of merit, but a slew of insults and personal attacks.

Originally posted by MMPI2

This thread, for example. This "Heffcide" person, in the second post, mind you, insisted on attempting to derail this thread, originally about the potential spread of disease by the recently initiated TSA "enhanced pat downs", stated this:

"Really?

You come up with this particular view of the world and then source an article entitled "Nearly Half of Black Women Have Herpes" as the grounds for it???

I've grown kind of accustomed to hyperbole and to accepting that some folks connect dots that don't actually connect... But this is by far and away the worst.

Really???

~Heff "

This "comment" was designed to derail what was, and if the data is looked at objectively, an excellent thread for a conspiracy website.

No. This post was accurate, correct, and I stand by it. The cited article has NOTHING to do with the TSA or the risk of contracting an STD from a pat search. The linking of the two thoughts was not only misleading, it was inflammatory and divisive.

Originally posted by MMPI2

"Heff's" intent was to discourage the OP by attempting to erode the OP's thesis and comments with no actual contribution to the thread. It is a transparent thing that happens frequently on these forums, orchestrated by people with too much time on their hands, and a chip on their shoulder.

Pot, meet kettle.

Oh, and my intent had nothing at all to do with the OP. It had everything to do with the faulty premise of the OPs post. "Black women get herpes, therefore the TSA will infect you?"

Oh, and as for the rest... Man you really have a compulsion to insult, insult, insult, don't you?

Originally posted by MMPI2

Then when "Heff" was provided with the data he so loudly desired, it was again discounted, and in a simpleminded, hamhanded way typical of these people.

Really, would you direct me to a SINGLE FACT (Excluding the one offered, and accepted, from the mod) that was offered to me? Not a single relevant fact was offered. But, of course, it suits your delusional posts to simply say "facts were offered" in the hopes that thread scanners will take that statement on face value.

ATS readers, for the most part, are much smarter than that. You don't seem to be able to give enough credit where credit is due.

Originally posted by MMPI2

Let me tell you something kids...If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Furthermore, pal, no matter how many of your "friends" you direct to this thread to defend your weakness and the spankings you have gotten here, we both know you have been bested.

Glad to see that you've elected yourself as God and arbiter of ATS. And if you think that I am getting friends to come here and defend me, you can always u2u a mod and have me banned, as this is a bannable offense. Unfortunately you cannot prove this because it did not occur. Any heat you get is totally on you.

Originally posted by MMPI2

You and your buddies aren't smart enough to do what you are trying to do. This is not hyperbole. It is fact. Yo can not win, because you don;t have the tools needed for something like this.

This isn't about winning. It's about being right. And so far, I have been right. Would you like to list your marvelous contributions to this thread? Would you recap your input for the masses to see? Oh, wait. YOU HAVE NOT CONTRIBUTE A DAMN THING.

Originally posted by MMPI2

The TSA pat downs have spread disease and illness. The TSA pat downs will spread more disease and illness.

No matter how often you repeat a lie it does NOT become TRUE. You cannot source a SINGLE case of a TSA agent spreading a disease. Your statements here are utterly devoid of fact. You are lying. [SNIP]

Originally posted by MMPI2

None of your whining will change these facts, and none of your buddies here can prevent you from looking more than a little ridiculous when they go back and read this thread in its entirety.

I will be able to look back on this thread proud of most of my posts here. The exceptions are when I have wasted my time feeding your nonsensical posts.

Originally posted by MMPI2

Stop whining about it. Introduce something of material interest, or just go away. You don't need to go away mad...just go away.

Again, you do not have the authority or ability to make me go away. I have introduced plenty that is material to this thread. You have not.

So YOU quit whining.

~Heff

Again, for the interested...

blog.tsa.gov...

Also, an update. Same TSA blog:

EoS Blog Team

Update ***04/09/2009 10:10 PM***

I have just been informed that 3 more cases have been confirmed at BOS. If there are any new developments, I'll post them here on the blog. ~ Blogger Bob

Update ***04/10/2009 1:17 PM***

TSA has provided details on these new cases to the Infectious Disease Bureau of the Boston Public Health Commission for their vetting and also made arrangements to have another checkpoint professionally cleaned. Additionally a local hotline for communicable diseases is available for personnel at the airport and for the general public to address any concerns (617-534-5611 or www.bphc.org). Again, health experts have continued to tell TSA that transmission to passengers is highly improbable given that prolonged skin to skin contact is required. ~

reply to post by MMPI2

Originally posted by MMPI2
I'll refer any interested parties to the several links I posted earlier in the thread. One noted an outbreak of scabies at Logan a few days ago. This sort of outbreak did not happen before the TSA started fondling peoples' clothes and belongings, and grabbing their genital areas.

4.09.2009
Two Scabies Cases Reported at Boston Logan International Airport

Again, you deliberately lie. The date on that report IS 04/09/2009. HERE is the link!

Now are you going to keep up with this charade? Are you going to insist that 04/09/09 was a "few days ago"?

The date you joined means NOTHING towards respect when your posts are this weak and you choose personal attacks rather than rational debate.

Other than misinformation, lies, accusations, and name calling, just what do you have to offer?

~Heff ( the n00b)

reply to post by weedwhacker


Herpes and public lice can both be spread in that manner

reply to post by FrancoUn-American


And of course you have source material to back that up, right? If not...

And I believe you meant pubic, not public lice...

ATTENTION!!!!!

This thread is getting too personal. please discuss the topic and not each other..
Please return to the topic now.
Further personal attack, barbs, name-calling and off-topic banter wiill be warned and/or removed.

Courtesy Is Mandatory

Ad Hominem Attacks And You

Please Stay on Topic

reply to post by FrancoUn-American


Without proof, and links, your 'opinion' is worthless.

Pubic lice usually infect a new host only by close contact between individuals, usually through sexual intercourse. ..... As with most sexually transmitted pathogens, they can only survive a short time away from the warmth and humidity of the human body.
en.wikipedia.org...

Genital herpes is a sexually transmitted viral infection affecting the skin or mucous membranes of the genitals.
health.google.com...

So far, haven't seen any TSA personnel having sex with the people they are searching...

Well at least the mainstream is finally making this TSA stuff a big issue

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I haven't been watching TV or anything. Is this in the mainstream news?

It's heavily on mainstream news

libertypulse.com...

Careful here, do not read the comments on that page

of course there's much more

Now back to serious business..

I asked before about the screening of these people... then I did a search

From the TSA's own Blog

Orlando Officer Arrested

I was sickened to hear about a former TSA staffer in Orlando who was recently arrested for lewd and lascivious conduct.

blog.tsa.gov...

TSA agent arrested for molestation
www.myfoxorlando.com...

From a Pilot forum
Former airport employees arrested for drug trafficking

This morning, the DEA arested a 3-man organization that transported drugs via private ramp companies across various airlines at SJU.

There are 3 warrants out as well for 3 persons who transported coc aine as mail via commercial flights from Puerto Rico to the mainland US.

The three former employees are suspected of using their airport jobs to facilitate the transport of coc aine from Puerto Rico to the mainland US aboard commercial flights.

www.flyertalk.com...

TSA Agent Arrested at LAX

They are the first line of defense in airport security but two troubling incidents involving TSA agents at LAX are raising concerns.

A TSA agent was arrested on January 3rd in Terminal One at LAX, a source told NBCLA. He had just gotten off duty and was behaving erratically, saying, "I am god, I’m in charge."

Meanwhile, a TSA Internal Affairs investigation turned up evidence of LAX TSA agents using drugs at an after-hours party.

TSA officials say a videotape of the party was of poor quality and the employees were not in uniform, but 4 employees were tentatively identified.

All 4 were tested for drugs. One came back positive and that employee was fired.

www.nbclosangeles.com...

_________________

Hospitals have banned neck ties, since even neck ties can
be a source of infection spread.
There was a story that a TSA worker spilled urine on
a passenger while inspecting a colostomy bag.
These hands-on-inspections are not the most hygienic,

_________________