“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither

“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Sourc e

As an historical aside it seems in dispute who originally penned the above phrase even though its is widely attributed to Benjamin Franklin.

My point in posting the above quote is that I am astonished at the shear number of ATS members who find it totally acceptable what the TSA is doing with the naked body scanners and the so called enhanced pat down procedures.

Without naming names I have read where posters have stated they don't care if its intrusive or violates our constitutional rights as long as it keeps a terrorist from blowing up a plane.

To those members of this site that harbor those same sentiments I ask you where does it stop? How many more liberties are you willing to give up for your temporary safety?

Completely agree.

After the rights are taken they are really given back, and each new "safety measure" takes us further away from anything resembling safety or freedom.

We have to draw the line somewhere and for me the line was 10 miles back.

I don't think it's "right" but after a while you kind of get used to after you realize that you could be watched almost anywhere like this in some pretty candid ways. Am I saying it happens all the time? No, but it probably happens a heck of a lot more than people who are greatly upset about this think it does. Privacy is invaded probably quite a bit. If there is a means to do it, people will do it and there are apparently quite a few means. It doesn't surprise me that in this day and age that they are doing it and acting like they are not giving it a second thought.

personally I think it is more critical to establish safety on a flight than to rid a low population jail cell of small amounts of drugs that can't be detected by detectors that aren't weapons in other ways than a cavity search for some stupid offense like having a joint in your pocket but have you ever had a cavity search?... hell, speaking of which, you ever had a 20 minute pelvic exam?

the world is apparently full of nice little things like this.

reply to post by Forgoten_Whisper


The patriot act the military commission act, American citizens can be indefinitely held, and targeted for assassination. The list goes on.
You are correct we started giving up our liberties years ago. I must say I am encouraged by the grass roots response to the TSA tomfoolery.

reply to post by ChaosMagician


Thats exactly what they are counting on....for us to get used to it. Its the slow erosion of our constitutional rights to the point we forget we ever had any rights.

Its amazing how quick people will give up their constitutional rights when exposed to a little fear and offered some protection.

they wont even leave kids out of it, and just use those wands and metal detectors, they have to grab my sons junk, or subject him to more damaging x-rays and possibly a saved picture that should be considered by definition child pornography. more people are going to stand up, and its odd that so many tipping points were around the time this was getting big. just saying, wars have been fought for less. people just got tired of it

All im going to say here is... When they start putting on gloves and lube and tell you to bend over, theres gona be one hell of an "I told you so" coming from me.

MOTF!

reply to post by etshrtslr


S & F for you. I was thinking the same thing. I was discussing this with my father the other day. He is 72 years old and he laughs at how timid and afraid the American public has become. Does everyone realize that you have more of a chance to die from a lightening strike than you do from a terrorist attack?

We should be fearing lightening more than the terrorists.

The government just want to keep people in a constant state of fear. People in fear are easily controlled.

Originally posted by Erasurehead

The government just want to keep people in a contant state of fear. People in fear are easily controlled.

So true and the sad thing is most people dont even realize it. Just look at the TERROR ALERT LEVEL they broadcast on virtually every TV station every day. What kind of psychological conditioning is that? Be scared give up your rights and we will protect you.

reply to post by etshrtslr


I am the only one who is going to protect me. I am my 1st and last line of defense. If/when another attack comes, it wont be on a plane. Anyone who thinks so is very naive.

Originally posted by etshrtslr
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Sourc e

Without naming names I have read where posters have stated they don't care if its intrusive or violates our constitutional rights as long as it keeps a terrorist from blowing up a plane.

How do I say this plainly?....

Flying on an airplane is not a "constitutional right"...nor is it an "essential liberty"...it is a service provided by a business.

Originally posted by maybereal11

How do I say this plainly?....

Flying on an airplane is not a "constitutional right"...nor is it an "essential liberty"...it is a service provided by a business.

Then please tell me what our are "constitutional right"s and what is an "essential liberty"?

According to your perverse logic any business could deny anyone, minorities included a product or service because "It is a business" and is not a "constitutional right" or an "essential liberty". Did we not pass civil rights laws over this issue?

Lets also not forget the Fourth Amendment.

'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'

Originally posted by etshrtslr

Originally posted by maybereal11

How do I say this plainly?....

Flying on an airplane is not a "constitutional right"...nor is it an "essential liberty"...it is a service provided by a business.

Then please tell me what our are "constitutional right"s and what is an "essential liberty"?

edit on 17-11-2010 by etshrtslr because: added to post

Any right or liberty specifically articulated in the constitution, it's amendments, the bill of rights etc.

Originally posted by etshrtslr
According to your perverse logic any business could deny anyone, minorities included a product or service because "It is a business" and is not a "constitutional right" or an "essential liberty". Did we not pass civil rights laws over this issue?

Nope. the Civil rights act was instituted via the commerce clause and spoke to discrimination.

Any business can still deny you thier business or kick you out of a store etc. etc. Ever see those "we reserve the right" signs in some shops?

They can't kick you out of the store due to your race, ethnicity, or religion.

Airlines can pat-down it's customers as long as they adhere to a non-discriminatory process. Treat Muslims, Blacks and white folks all the same when looking for red-flags and referring them to be frisked.

Originally posted by etshrtslr
Lets also not forget the Fourth Amendment.

'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'

You still seem to be confused about this....when you are frisked at the airport...you are volountarily allowing them to frisk you...you agree to it in order to purchase thier product and get on the plane.

If you don't want to risk being frisked, don't buy the product and stand uin line to be screened.

Originally posted by maybereal11


You still seem to be confused about this....when you are frisked at the airport...you are volountarily allowing them to frisk you...you agree to it in order to purchase thier product and get on the plane.

If you don't want to risk being frisked, don't buy the product and stand uin line to be screened.

edit on 18-11-2010 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)

You are the confused one...I am not voluntarily allowing them to frisk me.... it is a government mandated groping and fondling that has to be endured in order to get on the plane.

A former TSA director even admitted it was a violation of the 4th amendment.

Former TSA security director: No one likes Fourth Amendment violations, but we’re going to have to do it

Sour ce

If the groping and fondling was not government approved it would be sexual harassment any other time. You either have to be a complete sheeple not to see that or sexual deviant to condone it.

Unless you enjoy being groped and fondled in public by total strangers, I think 99.9% of people would voluntarily opt out.

As far as being a violation of the constitution we will soon have a chance to find out with the lawsuits being filed challenging the constitutionality of the TSA naked body scanners and groping and fondling of innocent women and children.

Local civil rights group sues feds over full-body scans

Source