Innocence Project: Overhaul death penalty laws-- Wrongful Conviction

Innocence Project: Overhaul death penalty laws-- Wrongful Conviction

news.yahoo.com

The execution of a Texas man whose plea for DNA testing was ignored shows procedures and laws covering capital punishment need to be changed, a leading anti-death penalty lawyer said Friday.

Innocence Project co-founder Barry Scheck said the execution of convicted murderer Claude Jones 10 years ago took place only because then-Gov. George W. Bush wasn't told by his legal team that Jones' lawyer was seeking DNA testing on a piece of hair used to convict him.

"I have great hopes that when President Bush reviews this case he will acknowledge what I think is obvious here, and that is that

(visit the link for the full news article)

Because the DNA test showed the hair did not come from Jones, the evidence used to convict him was insufficient under Texas law

So pretty much this guy died an innocent man. I don't want to turn this into a "Bush is responsible" thread but things should probably be changed in the justice system, especially around the death penalty.

Wrongful convictions shouldn't happen in any "just" society.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Originally posted by Portugoal

Because the DNA test showed the hair did not come from Jones, the evidence used to convict him was insufficient under Texas law

So pretty much this guy died an innocent man. I don't want to turn this into a "Bush is responsible" thread but things should probably be changed in the justice system, especially around the death penalty.

Wrongful convictions shouldn't happen in any "just" society.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

This isn't a "just" society, sadly its only "just" if you can afford to make it that way, plenty of lawyers and lots of friends in all the cool places will get you pretty much anything all kinds of "just".

They can prove absolutely guilty or not guilty today. Uk and usa govs can take all and i mean every memory in your life.

They have done this to me, and its why the scum police in uk have not got me in prison after 18 years of non stop haressment.

Those poor people on death row should be given the right to have the techs used on me to be used on them, to see if they are guilty or innocent.

Uk and usa govs, can take every detail of your whole life from you fact.

All you people that are out there should know that, and the tech have been around for a few years at least. They can go so much further than dna testing, they can take every memory you ever had and see if these people are innocent or not.

Evidence of proof of non-guilt of convicted persons is frequently suppressed by the legal system.

The gods don't like admitting being wrong.

If the gods admit they are wrong,the little people would lose faith in them.

Most everything is a matter of faith.

Remember they can tell if somebody has actually done something.

But the minority report techs that try to predict are useless as no one can tell whether someone will do something as a fact. You cannot tell if a person will actually for a fact commit a crime, but you can take all a persons memories and tell that a person did do something that is a fact. Usually on death row those peopel are there for crimes that happened, and they are accused of something actually done, not something someone may do.

But taking all peoples memories can tell beyond a doubt whether they did a crime or what ever.

So just make sure you understand, you cannot tell in minority report style that if someone will do something as every one can do something.

But they have the techs to tell if a person actually did something. Hope you understand.

It's cases like this that make it clear that the death penalty is unjust.

If we ignore the ethical and philosophical arguments for or against capital punishment, then it still falls down on a practical level; namely, that it is impossible to revoke the sentence if evidence is subsequently brought up that may put the conviction in doubt.


I would say that in this case, it would appear that Bush can't entirely be blamed, if he was acting on what his advisers were telling him.

Having said that, it's outrageous that this man was ever executed, and being State Governor, Bush should have to shoulder the responsibility for this wrongful execution.

reply to post by Portugoal
Hiya P. I'll star and flag anyone who draws attention to the Innocence Project.

I first read about these guys at Uni in around 2000. Since then, they've done more than enough to highlight the need to reappraise the existence of a death penalty. It needs to go in my opinion.

If they won't throw this crap out, they could add some compromise, a grey area, whereby mercy and forgiveness is built into the Judicial System. People focus on the high-end atrocious crimes perpetrated by the worst elements of humanity.

It isn't that clear-cut and presents more of a spectrum.

I can understand that cases such as this, in a time when DNA evidence was in its infant stages, there should absolutely be a review of the evidence and the possibility of using modern DNA testing techniques.

However, for those who are calling for a complete ban on capital punishment, due to the possibility of false convictions, let me ask this.

If you are sold on the notion that DNA evidence is incontrovertible and is sufficient to prove a person's innocence, is it not also sufficient to prove a person's guilt?

If so, the call should be for the review of only those death penalty convictions, in which DNA evidence was not used to obtain said conviction, while letting the rest stand. Additionally, due to modern DNA testing techniques, there should be no fear of a false conviction, so capital punishment should be upheld.

reply to post by WTFover


You can wrongfully convict someone in Canada, make them go to jail, and then just pay them off once it becomes clear that you ruined their life. In States with capital punishment, I don't think you can pay someone off who you've already killed.

The point is what exactly do you do once you realize you've killed an innocent man?

reply to post by Portugoal


There is nothing that can be done to correct it. Even abolishing the death penalty will not atone for those past cases. The only reasonable thing to do is the review the cases of those, currently on "Death Row".

reply to post by WTFover
Good points and well made.

Imao the death penalty shouldn't stand.

Part of my thinking seeks to justify execution of those who are clearly, incontrovertibly beyond being a part of a safe society. In spite of this sentiment, logic argues against the death penalty.

reply to post by WTFover
DNA evidence is disregarded in cases where an overzealous interrogator gets a confession from a weak minded individual.

Believe me,you really should not ever talk to the cops.

Period.

reply to post by Kandinsky


I have given a great deal of thought on the subject. My main point of support of the death penalty is seeing it as a person who has chosen to take an innocent life has voluntarily forfeited his own, as a result. In every land, where capital punishment is utilized, everyone knows the potential consequences of committing a capital crime.

However, I am always open to logical and civil discussions, on the topic.

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
reply to post by WTFover

 

DNA evidence is disregarded in cases where an overzealous interrogator gets a confession from a weak minded individual.

Not necessarily and it should never be ignored. I've never heard of such a case, but would be interested to investigate any you can provide.

Anytime a sworn, written confession is obtained, it is always incumbent upon the investigator to corroborate the information provided by the confessor. Absent that corroboration, any decent defense attorney can have the confession suppressed.

reply to post by WTFover
It's late here and I'm about to log out.

The death penalty is often cited as a deterrent.

At the same time most murders are crimes of passion committed in the moment without any consideration of consequence. Red mist, anger, betrayal, mental illness etc. Cold-blooded murders are committed by people who think they'll never be caught.

Execution isn't a deterrent in these cases.

...gosh, what is this?... old news day?...

...claude jones was SCUM... he was never gonna stop murdering folks, thats for sure... the over-glorified dna evidence (one hair) is bs... jones intentionally and without a drop of remorse murdered the man he got the death penalty for - and - it wasnt the first time jones murdered someone...

www.clarkprosecutor.org...

Summary: In November 1989, Jones entered Zell's liquor store in Point Blank and asked the owner, Allen Hilzendager, to retrieve a bottle for him. As Hilzendager turned to get the bottle, Jones shot him three times with a .357 Magnum revolver. Jones took $900 from the cash register and fled in a getaway vehicle waiting outside. Waiting in the car were Jones' two accomplices, Kerry Daniel Dixon Jr. and Timothy Mark Jordan, in the middle of a multi-state crime pree that ended when Jones was arrested in Florida for bank robbery. Dixon received a 60 year sentence, Jordan a 10 year sentence. Jones had spent much of this adult life in prison following numerous convictions in Texas and Kansas. While in a Kansas prison serving a life sentence for murder, he killed another inmate. He served a total of 8 years on his life sentence.

...i have family in point blank texas... does that make me incapable of seeing jones for exactly what he was?... no... jones was a ruthless predator that got exactly what he deserved and its a shame that he wasnt executed decades earlier...

...btw, barry scheck was one of oj's dream team and most certainly not my idea of a decent human being or even a decent lawyer... he's a scummy little worm that would defend hitler if the price was right, no doubt about it... this article is 100% public relations con job, something barry's very good at...

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by Portugoal

 

There is nothing that can be done to correct it. Even abolishing the death penalty will not atone for those past cases. The only reasonable thing to do is the review the cases of those, currently on "Death Row".

Or, to understand that murder is murder no matter what faction of society does it, and that punishment is not the same thing as forgiveness and love which is the only ticket out of this planet, and that keeping an extremely dangerous person, ie a repeat killer/rapist, off the streets for public safetly and offering nonstop healing and life management/retraining is the only loving and positive response that anyone, or society should ever consider. That is the only thing that works for me.

Also that no judge should have this power, that citizens committees should oversee it all, and that every case would be reveiwable and reachable and overturnable at every stage, that also makes sense to me.

I also don't think that these miscarriages of justice are all by mistake, but done on purpose, as the judges reflect Saturn, the men in black and the whole negative rule of this planet in their very set up, and how its all coded.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
The death penalty is often cited as a deterrent.

...good point... the death penalty is NOT a fool-proof deterrent, never was expected to be (at least by people who have a fully functional brain)... the only criminal the death penalty stops for sure is the one who is executed... thats good enough for me...

...a lot of people disagree but they would prefer to support the prison industrial complex and/or believe that they can rehabilitate scum... i dont care if they waste millions of their own dollars supporting or attempting to rehabilitate scum... i just dont approve of having my money channeled into foolishness...