Auschwitz Gas Chambers a Myth?

reply to post by hinky


This is not a thread that I am looking to be shot down.

This is a thread that I am looking to others for quality answers and their opinions on the movie.

I see that you have your opinions.

Thank you for posting.

reply to post by xuenchen


great links

thanks I am checking them out

I will reply with what I think about them

thanks for posting

reply to post by Josephus23


Ok.... I watched most of it. What a quack this "engineer" is and what a complete waste of my and others time. I think I know the angle that you come from and your intended purpose. Have fun with it....and please take time to look over the other evidence that is contrary to the position that you pretend not to fully take. Also, how do we know that he really was ever even there ....could have been an elaborate hoax and simply a set.

Originally posted by hinky
Fred Leuchter Jr. is a joke for the nazi holocaust deniers.

The methodology used for his cyanide analysis has been scientifically refuted.

He stole samples from the rebuilt part using a hammer and chisel for his "scientific" study.

He is just a piss poor reference if you are really serious about this.

Ummmm....
Okay

His methodology was only refuted by the gentleman who initially tested the plaster on from the walls in crematorium 2.
According the movie crematorium 2 was not rebuilt.
That is why he had to climb down through a hole in the top of the structure.

And as I have said several times his methodology was not refuted until people discovered what he was testing.
Up until that point the only methodology that could be called into question is the gentleman who initially tested the material and then he debunked himself.

If as you say it was rebuilt then the link from wikipedia that I posted regarding the tests that FOUND residual cyanide are questionable.
Yes or no.

Originally posted by nonnez
reply to post by Josephus23

 

Ok.... I watched most of it. What a quack this "engineer" is and what a complete waste of my and others time. I think I know the angle that you come from and your intended purpose. Have fun with it....and please take time to look over the other evidence that is contrary to the position that you pretend not to fully take. Also, how do we know that he really was ever even there ....could have been an elaborate hoax and simply a set.

Yes that is true.
It could all be a hoax but then again so could anything where we are not present according to your reasoning.
And that would include the holocaust.
I mean how do we know that Auschwitz was ever even there...

So since you nor I were present during the movie I would say that you have no ground to call him a quack.
I mean it is only a movie so how can we know anything.
It could all be a big fake conspiracy!!!

I do thank you for staying on topic.

Thanks for your comment.

Originally posted by condouchious
This is bad, thanks too our lack-their of government, people are going to have to suffer!

I am not too sure what this has to do with the thread but I am guessing that you are new here and trying to get your twenty posts in so that you can start a thread.

Thanks for participating.

Originally posted by Josephus23

Originally posted by nonnez
reply to post by Josephus23

 

Ok.... I watched most of it. What a quack this "engineer" is and what a complete waste of my and others time. I think I know the angle that you come from and your intended purpose. Have fun with it....and please take time to look over the other evidence that is contrary to the position that you pretend not to fully take. Also, how do we know that he really was ever even there ....could have been an elaborate hoax and simply a set.

Yes that is true.
It could all be a hoax but then again so could anything where we are not present according to your reasoning.
And that would include the holocaust.
I mean how do we know that Auschwitz was ever even there...

So since you nor I were present during the movie I would say that you have no ground to call him a quack.
I mean it is only a movie so how can we know anything.
It could all be a big fake conspiracy!!!

I do thank you for staying on topic.

Thanks for your comment.

Now this statement right here proves your agenda..."how do we know Auschwitz was ever there".....There are forums for topics like this and your kind, and plenty of websites I'm sure, have fun there if that's your thing, but please don't bring this nonsense here.

reply to post by Josephus23

Could you elaborate on this?

Well, hypothetically, let's say we had a confirmed result of 1 part per billion of cyanide on the walls. What does that mean? Does that mean the chamber was definitely used to kill jews? Or does it mean it was used for delousing? What's the difference of expected measurement between a delousing chamber and a murder chamber? Do we have any way to know?

When he was simply given the material to test with no precepts about what he was testing he reported negative.

But yet when he was told what exactly was the purpose of the tests he debunked himself.

One interpretation would be that he allowed his beliefs to influence his facts. But another interpretation would be that he initially reported facts, and then once context was provided realized that his facts weren't relevant.

Imagine someone handing you an apron and asking you to look for blood on it. So you look at it, and you don't see any blood. So you say "there's no blood on it." And then somebody explains afterward that it was allegedly worn by a murderer as he hacked someone to pieces with a meat cleaver, and then ran it through a washing machine. So what what do you say? "Well, of course I'm not going to find blood on it. It was washed. My looking at it, after having been washed, is not an adequete test to confirm whether it was used in such a manner."

Similarly, after he realized the context, it might be perfectly reasonable for him to suddenly say "yeah...my tests aren't good enough to check for cyanide after 50 years."

reply to post by adifferentbreed


My thread has no agenda

I was merely taking the opposing side of the poster who I was responding to
And my post was very very very tongue in cheek

I was trying to make it as apparent as possible that I was being very sarcastic
Just so that the readers are crystal clear about this issue
I was being extremely sarcastic.

Thanks for the comment.

reply to post by LordBucket


thank you for the excellent and well thought reply

Imagine someone handing you an apron and asking you to look for blood on it. So you look at it, and you don't see any blood. So you say "there's no blood on it." And then somebody explains afterward that it was allegedly worn by a murderer as he hacked someone to pieces with a meat cleaver, and then ran it through a washing machine. So what what do you say? "Well, of course I'm not going to find blood on it. It was washed. My looking at it, after having been washed, is not an adequete test to confirm whether it was used in such a manner."

The problem with that assertion is that the gentleman WAS told that this was being tested for a trial and that Mr Leuchter was to give expert testimony.

So your comparison is a bit off the mark.

Thanks for posting however.
I am most appreciative of your comments.
You are actually responding to me with well thought ideas and arguments and I am very grateful for the tone of your posts.

cheers

reply to post by LordBucket

Well, hypothetically, let's say we had a confirmed result of 1 part per billion of cyanide on the walls. What does that mean? Does that mean the chamber was definitely used to kill jews? Or does it mean it was used for delousing? What's the difference of expected measurement between a delousing chamber and a murder chamber? Do we have any way to know?

excellent point made
star for the argument!

But "the" holocaust was not supposedly exclusive to Jews.
And that is why I have such a hard time discussing this with people.
It also supposedly rendered moot several other types of people.

But yet this is event in history is being portrayed as exclusively Jewish.

I have Native American blood in me (actually I am one eighth and that is on my moms side but if that was Jewish instead of Native American then I could go to Israel!!)
And I think that what happened to MY people makes "the" holocaust look like child's play.

You do make an excellent argument.

I will look into this and let you know what I can find.

reply to post by Josephus23


Golly, I've never had a double reply to one post.

You might want to look at this linky towards the bottom.

I personally dislike using wiki and prefer more reliable information. In this case wiki was quick and dirty.

I was going to respond to the first response from you. I am truly an old guy. WW2 is within my generation, but I am a baby boomer by just a couple of years. I have many relatives, now dead, that fought in WW2. I see this silly crap about WW2 and the damn nazies did this or didn't do that. I have no problem with kids and young adults questioning anything, But lets not be stupid about it. There are some real smart guys with ATS about WW2 and very specific areas of historical accounts within this framework. I do hope they take the time to answer some of the basic questions you ask. I probably chose poor words in my "shooting down" statement. A more apt statement would be "set you straight" with reliable information and historical documentation.

If you are ignorant of facts about the gassing and murder of a couple million people at Auschwitz, that's fine you can ask pertinent questions and receive answers for which you must decide if they are correct or BS. You will find a whole lot of BS about this specific subject both pro and con.

Fred Leuchter Jr. isn't a good source for your basic question, but we must start somewhere. Good luck in your quest for knowledge.

reply to post by hinky


I think that you are trying to find an argument with me that is not there.

I am asking valid questions and I am only looking for answers.
I congratulate you on being an old timer and making it that far but you seem to be full of a lot of testosterone and venom for someone who should have mellowed in old age.

The tone of your posts makes me question your honesty concerning this account.

And I would like to keep this thread civil so if you could...

Play by the rules.
"Setting me straight" would insinuate that I am not straight and that is simply not true.

Thanks for the comment and the links I am checking them out!!

Gas chambers absolutely existed in Auschwitz however they were for delousing clothes and personal effects and not for actually executing people.

Auschwitz was in the Soviet sector of East Europe after the war, and they had there own atrocities to cover up in Poland and elsewhere.

While they admit to remodeling and reconstruction for preservation purposes, forensic evidence appears to indicate that what is purported to be the main gas chamber at Auschwitz was likely an officer’s air raid bunker with some showers and toilets in it.

One thing is for certain it has almost no Xyclon B gas residue on the walls, floor or ceiling. Meanwhile the soviets admit to adding the trapdoors in the ceiling where the canisters were allegedly dropped into to begin gassing the prisoners.

Meanwhile over on the other side of the camp the room where clothes were fumigated for lice and other vermin is literally caked with Xyclon B which was actually originally developed as a delousing gas agent.

The actual revisionist history is the garbage that they place in the history books.

Lot’s of people did die in Auschwitz from disease, malnutrition and forced labor accidents, and medical experiments but it was a forced labor camp, not an execution facility.

Human beings are one of the most valuable commodities there is, especially when they can be employed as out and out slave labor and the inmates of Auschwitz definitely were employed as forced slave labor.

Of that there is no contention.

Many of Simon Wiesenthal’s post war claims of Soap made from the fat of humans and human lamp shades were later proven to be hoaxes manufactured by him.

Yes the people who died in the camps were cremated it was easier and cheaper and quicker than burying them all.

Yes by the time the allies got to the camps the inmates were starving to death, and so was most of Germany at that point after a long relentless bombing and infrastructure smashing campaign.

No they definitely were not where you would want to spend your vacation, but there were actually some strict rules for how the prisoners had to be treated, and death warrants had to be approved and signed by higher ups.

The slave labor pool was a vital part of the German war effort and efforts were made to keep it functioning productively and cost efficiently.

Yes people in the extreme east were shot in place because the trains coming back were need to transport wounded soldiers and staff officers being recalled to Berlin for consultations.

The Nazis ran a very efficient and cold calculating war machine, but a lot of the things alleged to have happened in the main camps are clearly fabrications for political purposes.

War is hell, and that alone ought to be enough to offend us all. For some reason it doesn’t though.

That this part of World War II is made to appear to be more offensive than war in general is all part of a political agenda that does not serve anyone well, including that group that most imagines it does.

It all boils down to this, during this period of the "Alleged" gassing of the Jews in Auschwitz there were shortages everywhere including Poland. Why would you use a chemical ( Zyklon B ) which is a known insecticide to gas the victims when you could simply use the exhaust of a truck to carbon dioxide poison them in minutes ?

Hook up a big truck with a hose/pipe into the facility and you cheaply suffocate the victims with no residual side effects of poison contaminating everything.

I just cannot believe people when they say they used a pesticide to gas them, the Germans are clever and not fools.

As for the numbers required to be pushed through all the facility's to meet the 6 million figure and you have the next conundrum but I won't go into that.

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by hinky

 

This is not a thread that I am looking to be shot down.

This is a thread that I am looking to others for quality answers and their opinions on the movie.

I see that you have your opinions.

Thank you for posting.

When was the movie made?? what is your agenda?? I rarely get cross with people but you I am
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I was hoping to get you to chime in on this topic Proto.

I think that the meat of your comments are one of the many things that most people do not realize about the labor camps.

They were labor camps.

They were a great way to get lots of free labor for the war effort and they were run primarily with the resources provided by American Corporations that included IBM and Brown Brothers Harriman.

Here is a great link discussing Prescott Bush and his allegiances with the Nazi party.

The propaganda concerning this issue runs rampant and I was most certainly playing coy until I was able to lure someone into the thread that understands exactly what happened at these camps.

And could add something of value.

Thank you.

No they definitely were not where you would want to spend your vacation, but there were actually some strict rules for how the prisoners had to be treated, and death warrants had to be approved and signed by higher ups. The slave labor pool was a vital part of the German war effort and efforts were made to keep it functioning productively and cost efficiently.

You are spot on the money. No resource on the planet can match a human resource and while the camps were atrocious and no one should ever be made to exist in such conditions they were not at all how they are portrayed in the media.
The idea of the holocaust is a political football and it is used for the promotion of an agenda.
Yes Jews died in the labor camps.
But until the end of the war the Nazi's needed to keep these folks in working condition so that they could work well.

It is no different than the idea of slavery in the South prior to the "War of the Northern Agresssion"
(I am from Georgia and that is how we talk!!)
Not all of the slaves wanted to be set free because some were taken care of very well buy their "owners".

The idea of treating someone like cattle is horrible and that is exactly how both the slave owners and the nazis viewed their respective laborers.
and I would dare say that some owners think the same way about their wage earning employees.
Yes the work camps were horrible and war is horrible but they were not death camps.
They were work camps.

Excellent reply Proto!!

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I was hoping to get you to chime in on this topic Proto.

I think that the meat of your comments are one of the many things that most people do not realize about the labor camps.

They were labor camps.

They were a great way to get lots of free labor for the war effort and they were run primarily with the resources provided by American Corporations that included IBM and Brown Brothers Harriman.

Here is a great link discussing Prescott Bush and his allegiances with the Nazi party.

The propaganda concerning this issue runs rampant and I was most certainly playing coy until I was able to lure someone into the thread that understands exactly what happened at these camps.

And could add something of value.

Thank you.

No they definitely were not where you would want to spend your vacation, but there were actually some strict rules for how the prisoners had to be treated, and death warrants had to be approved and signed by higher ups. The slave labor pool was a vital part of the German war effort and efforts were made to keep it functioning productively and cost efficiently.

You are spot on the money. No resource on the planet can match a human resource and while the camps were atrocious and no one should ever be made to exist in such conditions they were not at all how they are portrayed in the media.
The idea of the holocaust is a political football and it is used for the promotion of an agenda.
Yes Jews died in the labor camps.
But until the end of the war the Nazi's needed to keep these folks in working condition so that they could work well.

It is no different than the idea of slavery in the South prior to the "War of the Northern Agresssion"
(I am from Georgia and that is how we talk!!)
Not all of the slaves wanted to be set free because some were taken care of very well buy their "owners".

The idea of treating someone like cattle is horrible and that is exactly how both the slave owners and the nazis viewed their respective laborers.
and I would dare say that some owners think the same way about their wage earning employees.
Yes the work camps were horrible and war is horrible but they were not death camps.
They were work camps.

Excellent reply Proto!!

Have you ever talked to someome from the 'camps' agree they were not as portrayed in the media..they were much worse. Death warrents on your way to the gas chamber..doubt it.

reply to post by mazzroth


You are quite correct.

And that is one of the points that Leuchter made during the movie.
Gassing these folks in the labor camps with Xyclon B was simply not cost efficient and that is an excellent point to make.

One of the reasons that I posted this film is that this gentleman Leuchter that is getting a lot of hate on this thread was an expert in executing people.
He was employed by almost every state in the contiguous 48 to perform his duty of killing people and he looked at his duty as a job and he sought to do it in the most efficient and humane way possible (if that is even possible).

He understood the difficulties that reside in killing people and disposing of their bodies and his ventures into Crematorium 2 showed exactly how small the chamber was.

It simply did not have the size necessary to do what was espoused.

I just cannot believe people when they say they used a pesticide to gas them, the Germans are clever and not fools. As for the numbers required to be pushed through all the facility's to meet the 6 million figure and you have the next conundrum but I won't go into that.

I could not have explained this better myself.

Thank you for the excellent comment.