HAARP should be shut down for good!!!!!

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by GhostLancer
No, your attempts to discredit and ridicule are right out of the standard debunker's tool kit. When faced with a lack of evidence, simply attack the person, not the idea/theory. Farrell is an Oxford graduate (yes, the one in England). He either has a Masters or PhD. He graduated at the top of his class or near it. His work is some of the best researched and referenced in the field. Apparently, you have your mind already made up. Like Stanton Friedman is famous for saying, "Don't bother me with the evidence, I've already made up my mind."

Maybe the fact he's ended up teaching at a non-accredited community divinity school tells you something about his standing in the theology community, too.

You should really research someone's background before making something up in a blatant effort to slander or ridicule that person.

Ok - his background is in theology. Which qualifies him bupkis for physics.

About "secret Nazi research"... Are you aware of PROJECT PAPERCLIP? Did you know that America secretly smuggled a large amount of SS Nazi scientists from Germany into the US classified research world at the end of WWII? Did you know that then said scientists rose to positions of leadership and influence within the most highly classified US research and development projects and NASA? Did you know that said R&D projects were then "privatized" in order to limit accountability (private companies are not held to the same standards of scrutiny as the government)? These aren't conspiracy theories. These are facts.

The fact that YOU know it says it's not a "Nazi secret", eh? Are you aware I worked at Redstone? Wow! Right where the infamous Nazi Project Paperclip was! WOW! So, yes, quite aware of it. And the Peenemunde guys were better rocketeers than we were, so we made them an offer they couldn't refuse. But there's precious little of midnight sekret brown-shirt wearing with people maching mit der gooseshtep up and down the corridors of Redstone's buildings praying to the ghost of Hitler or worshipping the Spear of Longinus or whatever.

The military privatizes a LOT of projects. The majority of them. There's not a lot of military full-scale production of ANY materiel, it's all contracted out to primes. Where do you live that this is a surprise, or some indication of a conspiracy? At any rate, your boy doesn't stop at Project Paperclip by a long shot, he's more into Antarctic Nazi strongholds defended by flying saucers and the like.

In the light of all of that, HAARP takes on a whole new facet of menace.

That has to be the king of all non-sequiturs for this month, at least, and ATS is chock full of them.

Yet I still would highly recommend taking no action against any government facility. They may have particle accelerators. That last line was a joke, but I'd still stay clear.

Always good advice, because you can get into some serious trouble breaking in, as you would anywhere, except that in some places they'll just shoot you instead of slapping you around.

HAHAHAHA I LOVE HOW BEDLAM JUST SCHOOLS PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. Its funny that people think they know something and then when they talk to bedlam they get schooled by bedlam or they get so embarrassed they leave ATS.

Just like the last guy who thinks HAARP has particle accelerators

Originally posted by kid_cudi
Just like the last guy who thinks HAARP has particle accelerators

They do have some other stuff out there.

They've got a very nice conventional radar. There's a very nice telescope, with image intensifiers on. They've got a nice set of riometers and a whole gob of receivers, including some ELF/VLF stuff, and some really pricey spectrum analyzers. Some is right there on the site, some is down the road.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by kid_cudi
Just like the last guy who thinks HAARP has particle accelerators

They do have some other stuff out there.

They've got a very nice conventional radar. There's a very nice telescope, with image intensifiers on. They've got a nice set of riometers and a whole gob of receivers, including some ELF/VLF stuff, and some really pricey spectrum analyzers. Some is right there on the site, some is down the road.

All the stuff they have is pretty cool though if you ask me

reply to post by GhostLancer

Defend against aliens; --Well, you just don't know that. You don't really know what it's capable of.

HAARP heats the ionosphere, so HAARP cannot defend against aliens, unless you think that beaming High Frequency signals into the ionosphere above Alaska is a good way of defending against aliens. HAARP is not classified and we do know the capabilities of it from HAARP's own website:

The array, along with its integrated transmitters, has a total radiated power capability of about 3,600 kilowatts.

HAARP FAQ

Again, you simply cannot know this. Remember the Norway Spiral incident?

That was a failed rocket launch. It certainly looked impressive from the ground though. The HAARP website addresses concerns about its ability to create auroras:

HAARP is so much weaker than these naturally occurring processes that it is incapable of producing the type of optical display observed during an aurora.

If HAARP cannot even generate the power to create an aurora what gives you the idea that it can open up a star gate? Especially considering the fact that Star Gates are a pseudoscientific subject and they never even been shown to exist.

it could feasibly result in *cascading exothermal inversion.*

I love how your arguments rely heavily on the old "For all we know" fallacy. Yes, for all we know Santa and his Elves are up there in Alaska using magical pixie dust to control the weather and power HAARP. Maybe we'll get a resonance cascade ala Half-Life complete with portal storms. Maybe, etc etc etc. You can speculate anything about the facility but at least I've backed up my claims with the actual website.

The HAARP facility will not affect the weather. Transmitted energy in the frequency ranges that will be used by HAARP is not absorbed in either the troposphere or the stratosphere - the two levels of the atmosphere that produce the earth's weather.

Again, if it can't effect the weather how on Earth could it cause Earthquakes. Such paranoia is nothing short of silly.

that they would really (REALLY!?) discuss any classified work that goes on there?

HAARP is not classified. There are no classified documents pertaining to HAARP. The Environmental Impact Process (EIP) documents have always been, are now, and will always be completely descriptive of the program in its entirety. The EIP documents are a matter of public record.

Please try to do some research before you post nonsense. The government has plenty of classified stuff and yes I imagine some of it might be sinister but HAARP is not one of those things and is not classified.

Doesnt HAARP work using resonance to "excite " the molecules that make up the Ionosphere,
therefore the same method can be used to "excite " molecules that make up the earths crust .

If the method of excitement is resonance , then its highly possible that the correct resonating frequency could be applied to the earths mantle and cause it to become "excited" and react violently

Of course this is all just speculation.

Originally posted by sapien82
Doesnt HAARP work using resonance to "excite " the molecules that make up the Ionosphere,
therefore the same method can be used to "excite " molecules that make up the earths crust .

If the method of excitement is resonance , then its highly possible that the correct resonating frequency could be applied to the earths mantle and cause it to become "excited" and react violently

Of course this is all just speculation.

I do agree but how would you point HAARP at the ground? The beam isn't strong enough when it reaches HAARP from the bounce back

Originally posted by sapien82
Doesnt HAARP work using resonance to "excite " the molecules that make up the Ionosphere,
therefore the same method can be used to "excite " molecules that make up the earths crust .

Not at all. It primarily heats the free electrons in the ionosphere. Way way out toward the tail of the Gaussian curve, you get a few molecules that actually make electron transitions due to the way things stack up and they emit light as they return to ground state. But at 10MHz, not much of that, really.

Remember, it's an HF station. You have lots of them around locally - they're called AM radio stations.

Next, the word "excite" used by a physicist isn't the word "excite" used by someone drinking a Red Bull for "excitement" or what not. You can't take it out of context and try to apply a different meaning, at least not and have any sense left in what you're saying.

Finally, you have to ask "what I can do with a few microwatts per square meter", at 10MHz there's not a lot of anything going to be forced into even quantum mechanical transitions (warming due to dielectric loss), and the total amount of energy is just about zero. You would get more action dipping a 9v battery in a ditch.

edit: don't let that word "resonance" buffalo you. It's a different term in physics than, say, something hypey and generally wrong, like the way teslaphiles try to use it.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by sapien82
Doesnt HAARP work using resonance to "excite " the molecules that make up the Ionosphere,
therefore the same method can be used to "excite " molecules that make up the earths crust .

Not at all. It primarily heats the free electrons in the ionosphere. Way way out toward the tail of the Gaussian curve, you get a few molecules that actually make electron transitions due to the way things stack up and they emit light as they return to ground state. But at 10MHz, not much of that, really.

Remember, it's an HF station. You have lots of them around locally - they're called AM radio stations.

Next, the word "excite" used by a physicist isn't the word "excite" used by someone drinking a Red Bull for "excitement" or what not. You can't take it out of context and try to apply a different meaning, at least not and have any sense left in what you're saying.

Finally, you have to ask "what I can do with a few microwatts per square meter", at 10MHz there's not a lot of anything going to be forced into even quantum mechanical transitions (warming due to dielectric loss), and the total amount of energy is just about zero. You would get more action dipping a 9v battery in a ditch.

edit: don't let that word "resonance" buffalo you. It's a different term in physics than, say, something hypey and generally wrong, like the way teslaphiles try to use it.

edit on 20-10-2010 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

You could even more energy by touching a 9volt battery to a piece of steel wool. The negative and positive electrons react when in contact with the steel wool and it starts a fire. It is pretty cool and I recommend that if you try it try it in a safe enviroment because I AM NOT AND WILL NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOURE INJURIES OR ANY DAMAGE YOU CAUSE. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING.

reply to post by Bedlam


I realise there are facts about how HAARP operates , you mentioned the frequency it operates and how it excites molecules.

I thought that any molecule has a specific resonance frequency and when you match that frequency you can make the molecule resonate .

you can destroy structures using that property , bridges , buildings , or is that pure psuedoscience?

The HAARP facility may well give tours , and they may well explain everything perfectly to apease even the enthusiastic science geek. Im sure now that its funded by the military , they must be using it for something other than what it was originally intended to do, they could be pumping it with more juice than they state to the public.

Again im just guessing , and probably not even making any sense , but you should all indulge me haha

Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by Bedlam

 

I realise there are facts about how HAARP operates , you mentioned the frequency it operates and how it excites molecules.

I thought that any molecule has a specific resonance frequency and when you match that frequency you can make the molecule resonate .

you can destroy structures using that property , bridges , buildings , or is that pure psuedoscience?

The HAARP facility may well give tours , and they may well explain everything perfectly to apease even the enthusiastic science geek. Im sure now that its funded by the military , they must be using it for something other than what it was originally intended to do, they could be pumping it with more juice than they state to the public.

Again im just guessing , and probably not even making any sense , but you should all indulge me haha

Lol it has always been funded by the Military. The Military are the one's who bought the blueprint plans from Dr. Eastlund when he first let it out to the government and the military saw its potential and ever since then the Military has owned HAARP. And yes you are able to destroy buildings and any structure you want to with resonant tuning but HAARP does not have that kind of power. HAARP isn't strong enough for that. The government created an aircraft a long time ago and used resonance as the way of traveling and they successful teleported an aircraft from here to egypt and took samples of sand and rocks and returned to the base in 15 minutes. resonant tuning in aircraft is instant. once you tune it to the molecule you are already there. It is instant. although when traveling by using resonance your brain will not operate as it does now. you willl actuallty have no record of went on because the resonance operates much higher than the brain operates and therefore will cause your brain to blackout untill the ride is over.

Titen Sxull,

"""HAARP is not classified and we do know the capabilities of it from HAARP's own website"""

Why was HAARP moved under DOD not too long ago? Why didn't it stay under scientists or say NOAA for research??

If DOD accepted it, especially now with their hyper tight budgets .....it's got one heck of a military purpose. 250 air force fighters recently parked because we can't afford them, navy ships are floating ghost ships we can't afford to man.......HAARP's got to work and be very effective at something for DOD to take it.....juz sayin.

why hasnt this topic been locked yet for this troll topic maker?

Originally posted by Helghast1
why hasnt this topic been locked yet for this troll topic maker?

Why havent you been banned yet for calling people topic trolls?

And if you had been posting in this thread the whole time you would know that its been an engaging conversation the whole time and it also has valuble information throughout the thread.

Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by Bedlam

 

I thought that any molecule has a specific resonance frequency and when you match that frequency you can make the molecule resonate .

Some molecules have sharply defined quantum mechanical resonances - that is, when hit with specific EM frequencies, you provoke a particular mechanical response, springing, scissoring, spinning and whatnot, there are a number of them. This also goes on just due to thermal energy. In most cases, especially for small molecules like water, you can't get enough energy in there to cause the thing to come apart. For big fragile molecules, there are sometimes qm resonances you can hit, and if the molecule's poorly held together it can come apart or denature, but then it can happen when you heat it as well - think egg white being cooked. It's not a magic bullet thing.

you can destroy structures using that property , bridges , buildings , or is that pure psuedoscience?

It depends on the structure - if the particular resonance is lossy, then the structure will dissipate the incoming energy as heat, in this case it would have to be a mechanical wave like sound and not EM like HAARP. Radio waves don't cause mechanical resonances like the Tacoma Narrows bridge or something. So, for big building/infrastructure sorts of things like bridges, you have to have mechanical energy coming in, not radio, and you'd have to have a "good" resonance, not a sloppy one, and it has to have high Q so that the flexing doesn't just turn into heat and radiate away.

reply to post by kid_cudi


i'll give you this, kid. your perseverance in the face of overwhelming, documented evidence, you stick yto your guns. That's gotta count for somethin'!

Originally posted by justadood
reply to post by kid_cudi

 

i'll give you this, kid. your perseverance in the face of overwhelming, documented evidence, you stick yto your guns. That's gotta count for somethin'!

Lol I work in law enforcement so that's typically why I stick to what I say. And also I'm confused about what u said on documented evidence but I do have documented love it's somewhere in these 16 pages. But I don't if any of that and sticking to my guns counts for anything except that I believe HAARP is good but can be used for evil

reply to post by justadood


There are differing credentialed opinions, scientists who don't concur. Tesla surprisingly as well. when something has two sides, ones a lie.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by justadood

 

There are differing credentialed opinions, scientists who don't concur. Tesla surprisingly as well. when something has two sides, ones a lie.

edit on 20-10-2010 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

Not to put too fine a point on it, when he was actually on his game before he went whacko at the end, even his simple stuff wasn't that straightforward, so when you say "Tesla doesn't concur" either you're channeling him from beyond, or I suspect you don't understand his work anyway.

reply to post by Bedlam


Not o mention that the assertion; 'when something has two sides, one is a lie' is nowhere near necessarily true. In fact, there can be even ORE than two sides to a story, and they can ALL be true.

I feel sorry for such fractured, dichotomous minds.

Originally posted by kid_cudi

Originally posted by justadood
reply to post by kid_cudi

 

i'll give you this, kid. your perseverance in the face of overwhelming, documented evidence, you stick yto your guns. That's gotta count for somethin'!

Lol I work in law enforcement so that's typically why I stick to what I say. And also I'm confused about what u said on documented evidence but I do have documented love it's somewhere in these 16 pages. But I don't if any of that and sticking to my guns counts for anything except that I believe HAARP is good but can be used for evil

What I meant by documented evidence was how, repeatedly in this thread you have made numerous claims and assertions that have been roundly smakcked down with actual facts. For example (one of many), the claim that HAARP is a secret program closed to the public.

Also, the fact that you are in law enforcement does not lend credence to your stance, whatsoever. Lots of cops stick to their guns (so to speak) in the face of overwhelming evidence. If anything, you position in law enforcement only supports the idea you will never admit defeat!