Why live inside of a box?

I had a lot written down and the screen refreshed right before I was about to click "Reply". That doesn't happen to me often, so I'm taking it as a sign to continue to ponder a bit more before posting ^_^

Care to elaborate or post another thought provoking question while I ponder? I am very much enjoying this conversation. Peace to you.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
These are the boxes that you have been given to chose from.

Now we gotta figure out exactly who it is that makes those choices for us,and where in the heck they find the authority to do so.

And why so many people allow themselves to be neatly packaged.

Faith and ignorance play a very large part in it.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
I live outside the box.

I felt safer when I lived inside the box.

And I don't have the means to buy another box.

ztruthseeker: You are correct, not labeling things for what they are is not an option in a intelligent society. When giving directions, you must give details in order for your friend to understand where to go; a road name, a building, a river, a mountain... And when speaking of another person, you must use details to describe that person so people know who you are talking about; black/blond hair, short/tall, skinny/fat, ethnicity, name...

So we aren't talking about Not using 'boxes', but rather not being limited or ultimately defined by these 'boxes'.

"I once knew a river as a river, and a mountain as a mountain. However, in my search for the truth I no longer seen a river as a river, or a mountain as a mountain. Now I see a river as a river, and a mountain as a mountain." This means that I once knew a river was a river because I was told that is what it is. Then I searched deeper and realized that it was more than just a 'river' and saw it for what it really is, an un-namable, ever changing part of life that cannot be defined or labeled separately from the whole of existence. Now I can use these labels and definitions again while speaking with you because I know what it truly is.


Sahabi: That sucks bro, I feel your frustration.

So to recap what we have figured out: We have established that society is acting like a 'box' which is limiting our ability to go beyond the societal norms of suffering, inequality, ignorance, hatred, greed...but we have also came to an understanding that society is needed in order for us to coexist in a less chaotic manner. Then we looked into who and what created society, and we figured out it was an ever changing process being developed by the human mind. After that we established which factors of the human mind (emotions/reasoning) were the driving force behind this creation, and we came to a conclusion that just about every emotion/reasoning was/is present during this process.

Now we are beginning to sort through this long list of emotions and reasoning's, to establish which are leading to the corruption of our society. You have made a excellent assessment and stated that love would be the only pure emotion or reasoning. I then challenged this by asking if love is actually pure. Does love not also lead to hate? When you lose a loved one, do you not feel a deep sense of grief and/or fear? When your love is taken for granted or not returned in the same nature as you gave it, does this not leave you with a feeling of resentment and/or confusion? So then maybe love too is impure. Maybe all emotions are impure. Maybe this is the 'box' which has allowed or gave way to the creation of this societal 'box'.

So then let us study further into these emotions of our mind. Let us name a few emotions and then conclude why they arise. Maybe this will help us understand what this 'box' truly is. Maybe then we can move beyond it to see if there are other 'boxes' creating this one. Why do we feel sadness, happiness, fear, courage, jealousy, love...?


chiponbothshoulders: Please continue to follow this discussion and add in anything you like, it may help you understand why you feel safer inside of a 'box'.

Hahaha! You just about covered what I wrote!

You asked what are "good" and "bad" emotions. Initially I would include Love, Happiness, Peace, Understanding, Patience, Compassion, Mercy, and similar emotions as the "good" ones. "Bad" emotions would be Fear, Anger, Hate, Resentment, Envy, Jealousy, Regret, Sorrow, and similar emotions. An initial answer.

However, when pondering "Love is the Unifier of All," I stumbled onto a "hidden" understanding. People do great things in the name of Love, no need to elaborate this fact. But "Love" also acts as a catalyst to even stronger manifestations of the "bad" emotions. People become fearful, angry, and hate-filled when Love is lost. Resentful, regretful, envious, and jealous at the reality of losing Love. People even fall into rage and deep depression due to a loss. Heart-ache can even lead to murder and/or suicide. If Love was truly pure, it's only fruition would be positive! "Love is Blind," additionally with my earlier conclusion, Love is the Ultimate Blinder, not binder!

I'll post my thoughts on a few emotions after I ponder a little.

There is no such thing as good or bad emotions. Or good or bad anything. Good and bad are more labels we give. If we were never meant to feel anger, it wouldn't exist. How we deal with the range of emotions is what counts. Trying to suppress emotions is not good at all. My 2 cents.

Sahabi; Good! But to clarify, I did not only ask you which are 'good or bad' emotions, but rather which of them have led us, and are leading us, to create a corrupt society. Some, like hate or fear, may be more obvious than others, but my question to you is "which of them do and which of them don't lead to corruption?" We must properly understand what these boxes are before we can move beyond them, otherwise we may not be looking at the whole picture. I think you have figured this out on your own though, so good job, now we can continue further.

Just as we have studied how society arose, which we defined as the creation from the human mind, let us also study how these emotions arise. Do we not feel hate because we are as you said; fearful, resentful, envious or jealous? Do we not feel envious or jealous because we desire to have what we do not currently have? Do we not feel resentful because we desire to be loved? Do we not become fearful because we desire to be free from suffering? What is this thing called 'desire'? Where does it stem from?...


TKDRL

You are correct, suppressing emotions is never truly healthy, this we can see within certain religious practices. Some people have described this emotional suppression as a discipline, but I feel this is not a proper translation from it's original meaning. In this context discipline could be seen as nothing more than a practice of suppressing emotions, as if that is what will lead to 'enlightenment' or the 'Holy spirit'. But disciplining them does not necessarily mean 'understanding them' in our language. So 'discipline' could just as well lead to more suffering and chaos. This is why only when we are 'understanding and knowing' of what these emotions are, and how they arise, should we ever think to act upon them, more or less, begin to make a routine or discipline out of them.

Once we truly understand them, and how they arise, there will be no need to categorize them or even label them, for we will have already moved beyond them. At that point there is no need or reason to pick and choose which are 'good' and which are 'bad', these labels would only be used for communication. Ultimately our language is not advanced enough to absolutely or perfectly convey the true message we are intending to say to each other. That is why we must spend some time to make sure we are truly in agreement with everything that is being said. If me and you are coming to different conclusions about something, than one of us, or both of us are obviously confused, or maybe we are just miscommunicating. So that is why we must define and understand these things before we move further...

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Desire and want are interchangeable words? So can we say all manifestations and products of the mind come from want and desire. We feel the "negative" emotions when faced with opposition to our wants and desires. We feel the "positive" emotions when we are experiencing our desires and wants, or when we are on a path lead by want and desire. Only opposition to our desire/wants manifests "negativity" within ourselves.

But all emotion is relative on an individual basis. What makes me happy makes another offended, vice versa, and the such. So there is no set in stone standard to right/wrong, good/bad, negative/positive. It is all relative to our individual personal desires and wants.

Now the tricky part.... what purpose does want/desire serve? Could want and desire be the core mechanism and catalyst to the illusion? The illusion of the boxes?

Now the phrase, "the Lord is my Shepard, I shall not want" keeps popping into my head. Could being free from want and desire be a major stepping stone to enlightenment and spiritual evolution?

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

 

Desire and want are interchangeable words? So can we say all manifestations and products of the mind come from want and desire. We feel the "negative" emotions when faced with opposition to our wants and desires. We feel the "positive" emotions when we are experiencing our desires and wants, or when we are on a path lead by want and desire. Only opposition to our desire/wants manifests "negativity" within ourselves.

But all emotion is relative on an individual basis. What makes me happy makes another offended, vice versa, and the such. So there is no set in stone standard to right/wrong, good/bad, negative/positive. It is all relative to our individual personal desires and wants.

Now the tricky part.... what purpose does want/desire serve? Could want and desire be the core mechanism and catalyst to the illusion? The illusion of the boxes?

Now the phrase, "the Lord is my Shepard, I shall not want" keeps popping into my head. Could being free from want and desire be a major stepping stone to enlightenment and spiritual evolution?

Very good! It seems as if the root cause of desire is connected to an instinctual survival mechanism. As babies we desire milk, warmth and love in order to survive. However, as we grow older and survival becomes more secure, we do not lose our attachment to desire but instead it grows stronger, thus we constantly search for new ways to fulfill this sensation. These 'ways' will almost always lead to destructive tendencies and will give rise to more negative emotions and desires such as; greed, envy, hatred, anxiety, jealousy...

Yes I would say desire and attachment are the two leading causes for this illusion and the reason we create these 'boxes'.

Yes I would say being free from these desires and attachments is a major stepping stone towards 'enlightenment'.

Now, we have figured out these previous 'boxes' are arising because of our desires and attachments, so how shall we continue? What are some ways we can move beyond these desires and attachments to see if there are other 'boxes' allowing these ones to arise?

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

Now, we have figured out these previous 'boxes' are arising because of our desires and attachments, so how shall we continue? What are some ways we can move beyond these desires and attachments to see if there are other 'boxes' allowing these ones to arise?

As you can probably see just from our conversation in this thread, I am in the process of learning and self-realization. I do not have all the answers, and I do not even have the answers for my own relative understandings. But I do LOVE this thread! It is helping me slowly reveal my own truths.

So once again I may have to step back and ponder the next point. I know many, perhaps even you, could just give me the answers, but it sure feels more fulfilling to come to personal realization and understanding. I'll be back when I have more to add. In the mean time, may you have Peace my friend

reply to post by Sahabi


That is the best way to do it. I also am learning, so our convo is just as helpful to me. Take your time and reply when you have found something. Peace!