The Incredible Scientific Wisdom Of The Ancients. How Did They Know?

reply to post by Harte

Before shooting from the hip which you normally do, in order to prove that you are an authority on everything that goes against mainstream science, I suggest you click on the link below. Needless to say you'll readily trash it as it doesn't fit your perception.

The core foundation of Hindu belief is that Vedas contain source of all knowledge – physical or metaphysical. However in last 100 odd years, this belief has come under scrutiny due to the advances that modern science claims to make.

An entire group of Vedic ‘experts’ have stood up to prove that Vedas contain early man theories and are not compatible with modern discoveries. These include communist historians propelled by commentaries on Vedas by western indologists like Max Muller, Griffith et al and a new breed of intellectuals who initiate all research with assumption that ‘old means defective’.

However in modern era of religious marketing, another group has come up which would go to any length to discover scientific errors in Vedas. This is the group which would want 800 million Hindus to lose faith in Vedas and their religion and embrace what they believe is the final message of God. Yes I am referring to Islamic and Christian evangelists.

Often the reference and English translation are both pointing to sources best known to authors of these works. But for layman, these create a lot of confusion and doubt over relevance of Vedas. While I would shy away from thrusting my personal faith on Vedas, I would like to provide some excerpts from Vedas that provide clues to deep scientific concepts hidden within them.

Some examples that'll of course you'll readily trash...

Rig Veda 10.149.1
“The sun has tied Earth and other planets through attraction and moves them around itself as if a trainer moves newly trained horses around itself holding their reins.”

In this mantra,
Savita = Sun
Yantraih = through reins
Prithiveem = Earth
Aramnaat = Ties
Dyaam Andahat = Other planets in sky as well
Atoorte = Unbreakable
Baddham = Holds
Ashwam Iv Adhukshat = Like horses

GRAVITATIONAL FORCE

Rig Veda 8.12.28
“O Indra! by putting forth your mighty rays, which possess the qualities of gravitation and attraction-illumination and motion – keep up the netire universe in order through the Power of your attraction.”

Check out some more in the link below. For self styled experts like you, this is all nonsense! As for me, I have an open mind, but not so open that muck flies in!

agniveer.com...

Originally posted by OrionHunterX
reply to post by Harte

 

Before shooting from the hip which you normally do, in order to prove that you are an authority on everything that goes against mainstream science, I suggest you click on the link below. Needless to say you'll readily trash it as it doesn't fit your perception.

"My" perception?

You here are giving me a hard time because I can read?

These stupid posts should lead anyone with half a brain to ask this:
"Why isn't the poster quoting from any of several online translations of the particular Vedas in question?"

Here's the ones I use, because they are easily downloaded, they are easy to find, and they are legitimate translations recognized by English-speaking Hindus:
Vedas at Sacred Texts.
My excerpts I provide below can all be found there.

Originally posted by OrionHunterX
Some examples that'll of course you'll readily trash...

Rig Veda 10.149.1
“The sun has tied Earth and other planets through attraction and moves them around itself as if a trainer moves newly trained horses around itself holding their reins.”

Here's how this passage, and the others that follow (just in case anyone wants to claim I'm not including context,) actually reads:

HYMN CXLIX. Savitar.
1. SAVITAR fixed the earth with bands to bind it, and made heaven stedfast where no prop supported.
Savitar milked, as ’twere a restless courser, air, sea bound fast to what no foot had trodden.
2 Well knoweth Savitar, O Child of Waters, where ocean, firmly fixt, o’erflowed its limit.
Thence sprang the world, from that uprose the region: thence heaven spread out and the wide earth expanded.
3 Then, with a full crowd of Immortal Beings, this other realm came later, high and holy.
First, verily, Savitar's strong-pinioned Eagle was born: and he obeys his law for ever.
4 As warriors to their steeds, kine to their village, as fond milk giving cows approach their youngling,
As man to wife, let Savitar come downward to us, heaven's bearer, Lord of every blessing.

I bolded the passage that you claim to have quoted.

Here's the other quote from your "source" that you provided:

Rig Veda 8.12.28
“O Indra! by putting forth your mighty rays, which possess the qualities of gravitation and attraction-illumination and motion – keep up the netire universe in order through the Power of your attraction.”

And here's how this passage actually reads:

27 When Viṣṇu, through thine energy, strode wide those three great steps of his,
Then thy two beautiful Bay Steeds carried thee on.
28 When thy two beautiful Bay Steeds grew great and greater day by day,
Even then all creatures that had life bowed down to thee.
29 When, Indra, all the Marut folk humbly submitted them to thee,
Even then all creatures that had life bowed down to thee.
30 When yonder Sun, that brilliant light, thou settest in the heaven above,
Even then all creatures that had life bowed down to thee.
31 To thee, O Indra, with this thought the sage lifts up this eulogy,
Akin and leading as on foot to sacrifice.
32 When in thine own dear dwelling all gathered have lifted up the voice
Milk-streams at worship's central spot, for sacrifice,
33 As Priest, O Indra, give us wealth in brave men and good steeds ana kine
That we may first remember thee for sacrifice.

Again, the bolded part is the passage that you cited.
Now, if you think there is some error in the citation, then it is on you to find the actual verse.

Originally posted by OrionHunterX
Check out some more in the link below. For self styled experts like you, this is all nonsense!

"Self-styled experts?" Again, I can read. Why don't you try it?

Originally posted by OrionHunterXAs for me, I have an open mind, but not so open that muck flies in!

It appears that you have underestimated the openness of your mind, as you have just demonstrated that it is filled with "muck."

Harte

Humanity rises and falls. It is built into the rules of the Universe. Just as we begin to achieve true order, entropy begins to destroy it. And like a nuclear reaction, the initial events are drastic and happen fast. It is a steep curve from order into homogenized entropy.

I am a believer in lost sciences and ancient advanced civilizations. I also think that the allegories and metaphores used in the Ancient Texts are a good key to unravelling some of this. However, one must be careful about the use of sources.

If something is translated from an ancient text and uses words in eglish that describe modern equipment or concepts, it is probably bunk. Here is why.. If a human were to try to describe the internet in a stylized praise kind of way (such as a Vedic Hymn) they may say something like "Our web of knowledge that covers this world and the virtual world connecting each human to each other." Now 1500 years from now, after the next major civilization collapse, I would go back to that with a poor understanding of english and see something about a spider web of wisdom that touches the lives of all men. This could be anything.

Therein lies the challenge of encoding technical information into a religious or philisophical text. Unless you have a dedicated primer or dictionary that explains all of the technical terms in a basic manner, there is little chance that anyone will be able to translate it to their language.

I am not hindu from birth but the things I learned from that religion make me at last a vaishnava.
I was so skeptical and atheistic in my youth, I would have found any excuse to ridiculise any religius text then.

What I found in the Vedas in that time that opened my mind on that subject matter was this.

-Tons of AA material like in linga purana the Tripura incident. The battle from Sri Krishna with Salva from Srimad Bhagavatam. The conquest of the higher planetary systems by Bali Majaraja. When Druhva Majaraja was taken away in a vessel for the highest realms, For note just a few.

-The anomaly of the Gopuras Temples some have 120m in height having a 100 t block on the top

-The bridge of Ram between Sri-Lanka and India

-The Iron Pillar of Dheli that is the largest hand forged object of ancient times that we know. And has still no rust on it.


A hardcore skeptic can even debunk the existance of his own Mother so if someone has not a perseption for the Vedas or any Religion why they should obligate that person to learn about that?

Spiritual wisdom come by the years by itself and about spiritual wisdom is what the vedas are about.
Is there evidence that the Aryans or the culture before them had sientific knowdledge I would say yes, but it is only my humble opinion.

And for the ones sharing comon interest on this topic please visit www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Karmayogi11

-The anomaly of the Gopuras Temples some have 120m in height having a 100 t block on the top

-The bridge of Ram between Sri-Lanka and India

-The Iron Pillar of Dheli that is the largest hand forged object of ancient times that we know. And has still no rust on it.

There aren't any Gopurams that reach close to 120m and none that I know of with 100 ton pinnacles.

The 'bridge of Ram' or Rama's Bridge is interesting in relation to the legends. On the other hand, it's more than likely to be naturally formed shoal banks.

The Iron Pillar of Delhi is covered in a thin coat of rust. Google it and any image you look at shows rust. It's impressive for the times. The minimal rust is a fortunate outcome of the smelting process and materials they had to use in their region.

Reasonable questions: Why do you think that 'ancient aliens' (presumably able to travel the stars) would feel the need to make a bridge across a river? Why would they build temples? Why would they forge an iron pillar?

Originally posted by Karmayogi11
I am not hindu from birth but the things I learned from that religion make me at last a vaishnava.
I was so skeptical and atheistic in my youth, I would have found any excuse to ridiculise any religius text then.

What I found in the Vedas in that time that opened my mind on that subject matter was this.

Faith is a good thing, in my opinion.

However, the need to "prove" the validity of one's faith is a sign only of a lack of faith.

Now, if you want to believe in Hinduism, good for you. But trying to validate it with bogus science only exemplifies your lack of faith in your own choice.

Nothing you list in your post is anomalous in any way. Why do you choose to believe in Hinduism and then drag your beliefs through the mundane existence of everyday reality? Do you have so little faith in Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva that you have to resort to lies, such as the perfectly explained and accounted for "Iron pillar of Dehli," in order to make yourself believe?

Religion is nothing without faith. Faith does not exist if you have to prove your God is real.

Harte

reply to post by Kandinsky


If i may field this question, as I have some thoughts on it....

....perhaps the "ancient aliens" represent more future humans?

Time travel seems like an impossible item to discuss. However, we have found tantalizing clues related to time variant waves, etc.

Regardless, many of the traditions of the region deal with an ability to use the mind for transcendance of one sort or another. If we believe the work of Hal Puthoff and Ingo Swann, it would seem that the mind does indeed exist outside of time and space. As if it exists in the very source of reality.

I know it is not fruitful for this discussion, but consider that the Yogi traditions may be talking about some of the same phenomena that Swann and Puthoff noticed at SRI?

reply to post by Kandinsky

There aren't any Gopurams that reach close to 120m and none that I know of with 100 ton pinnacles.

There is a Gopura of 120m in Rangastan South India.

Brihat-Ishvara temple in Tanjore with a height of 70m has on its roof a granite block of 100 Tons.

www.ada-yoga.de...

on german page 107

Originally posted by Sahabi
A popular answer you will get is the Ancient Astronaut theory. However, I respectfully disagree. I think people should give our species, and those related such as Neanderthal a little more credit.

I personally believe, we as genus homo, have undergone at least one technological rise and fall. Simple as that. No extraterrestrial help, just our ancestors discovering, learning, and creating with the same mental capacity as us. They some how lost it... nuclear war as described in the Mahabharata? Cosmic or Earthly catastrophe? I don't know.

We can all agree that ancient anomalies exist that rival the understanding of our modern age. Most of our "advanced" understanding happened within the last hundred years. Mainstream says we've been here for approximately 200k years. If we can accomplish so much in a hundred years and risk destroying our selves with weapons of mass destruction today, it's probable we've already played this game before. Last time we lost, do we have any Continues or Extra Lives if we fall again?

totally agree. the esoteric history of mankind says that we have been around for a lot longer than previously thought. also, look at how much we progressed in 100 years. it's silly to think that man back then was any dumber than we are.

reply to post by Harte


How I stated out the Vedas are more about spiritual knowledge than anything else... I went on this topics searching for AA and became religious. Today I dont need that evidence mentioned above for my faith.
My experience in meditation fill all to so called lack of faith you adscribe to me.

I even incline to think that in other yugas the laws of physics where different, that there where materials that existed in a combination that today cant exist and that sience then the ones in powers lie to us about our hidden past

I belive this things and no there is no lack of faith on it.

Originally posted by Karmayogi11
There is a Gopura of 120m in Rangastan South India.

Any links to it?

According to the Wiki, the tallest is 75m:

The 'Rajagopuram' Gopuram of Murudeshwara in Karnataka is 249-feet tall and 21 floors and the tallest Gopuram in the world.

...and it doesn't have a 100t block on top of it. It was built recently, and includes something that our super advanced ancestors didn't ever seem to build....a lift.

Also the iron pillar of Delhi is clearly covered in rust:

reply to post by FatherLukeDuke


We have oposite information this is from: www.archaeologyonline.net...

The Vedic literatures contain descriptions of advanced scientific techniques, sometimes even more sophisticated than those used in our modern technological world.

Modern metallurgists have not been able to produce iron of comparable quality to the 22 foot high Iron Pillar of Delhi, which is the largest hand forged block of iron from antiquity.

This pillar stands at mute testimony to the highly advanced scientific knowledge of metallurgy that was known in ancient India. Cast in approximately the 3rd century B.C., the six and a half ton pillar, over two millennia has resisted all rust and even a direct hit by the artillary of the invading army of Nadir Shah during his sacking of Delhi in 1737.

And for the Gopuras page 108 of this E-Book
www.ada-yoga.de...

They knew all of this because they were taught... by ET's.
People who struggle to grasp that, struggle to grasp that we are living intelligent organisms.

Originally posted by Karmayogi11
How I stated out the Vedas are more about spiritual knowledge than anything else... I went on this topics searching for AA and became religious. Today I dont need that evidence mentioned above for my faith.
My experience in meditation fill all to so called lack of faith you adscribe to me.

I adscribed nothing at all to you.

You brought on my allusion toward how proclaiming scientific evidence for the existence of any god is really just a display of a lack of faith with your bogus examples of "anomalous facts." This caused me to ask you the questions I did.

If your answer to my questions is (as it appears to be) "no, I have more than enough faith and don't need the Iron Pillar of Dehli (for example) to be miraculous in order to maintain my belief in Shiva" then, good for you and I consider that good news.

But still, it doesn't really answer the question of why you brought up these lies about "anomalous" things either, does it?

Harte

reply to post by Harte


As above mentioned I considere the anomalies presented as real facts. In the case of the Gopuras I took them from the book Armin Risi : Gott und Die Goetter ISBN 3-906347-30-3 that I gave the link to it.
And about the Iron Pillar and having rust or having not rust we have opposite statement sources.

With your inteligence you should be able to translate the content be internet translators from german to english if realy interested on this.

You call this lies but there shure is no intention by my side to lie to anyone.

For any evidence you can find a counter evidence and in the end only you decide what you wish to belive or not.
May you find your evidence for your things you want to belive into..

Originally posted by Karmayogi11
We have oposite information this is from: www.archaeologyonline.net...

From the same site:

Discoveries in Archaeology from the Gulf of Cambay

NEW DELHI, JANUARY 16:

The carbon dating of the wooden artifact, which was recently carried out by the Birbal Sahani Institute of Palaeobotony and the National Geophysical Research Institute, indicates that the settlements, accidentally discovered by a team of oceanographers, could be one of the oldest Neolithic sites discovered in India till date.

The discovery follows a series of surveys conducted by the National Institute of Ocean Technology (NIOT) during 2000 to 2001. According to Dr B. Sasisekaran, research associate in the National Science Academy, ‘‘The carbon dating of 7,500 B.C. obtained for the wooden piece recovered from the site changes the earlier held view that the first cities appeared on the horizon around 3,500 B.C. (the Sumer valley around circa 3,000 B.C. and at Harappa circa 2,500 B.C.)’’.

Please. I don't go to Pat Robertson's website for my ancient history, and you're a fool if you depend on religious fundamentalists in any way for even a single jot of factual historical information.

That includes your linked site as well as a multitude of others. It also includes anything ever written by the Hindu fundamentalist Michael Cremo.

There has never been any ancient settlements found in the Gulf of Khambhat.

Modern metallurgists have not been able to produce iron of comparable quality to the 22 foot high Iron Pillar of Delhi, which is the largest hand forged block of iron from antiquity.

Cast in approximately the 3rd century B.C., the six and a half ton pillar, over two millennia has resisted all rust and even a direct hit by the artillary of the invading army of Nadir Shah during his sacking of Delhi in 1737

Because steel is stronger and tougher than iron, nobody is even trying to produce iron of "comparable quality" to this pillar. But iron has, in the past, been produced in a great many places that is (or was) of much higher quality that that of the Dehli Pillar:

The Non-Rusting Pillar. In the same book, Von Däniken refers to one of a number of non-rusting iron pillars (made of 'an unknown alloy') in India as evidence of extra-terrestrial influence (p94). However, he admitted in a Playboy interview (vol.21, no.8, 1974) that the pillar was man-made and that as far as supporting his theories goes "we can forget about this iron thing." (the pillar does not rust because of the few impurities in the metal: iron makers in Europe had to wait until the Industrial Revolution before they could produce a similar item). Despite his admission, neither von Däniken nor his publishers have removed this, or any other, discredited evidence from subsequent reprints of his books.

Source: Skepticwiki

There's no mystery about why it hasn't rusted away. Though it IS rusting, and no volume of protestation on your part can change that fact.

In a report published in the journal Current Science, R. Balasubramaniam of the IIT Kanpur explains how the pillar's resistance to corrosion is due to a passive protective film at the iron-rust interface. The presence of second phase particles (slag and unreduced iron oxides) in the microstructure of the iron, that of high amounts of phosphorus in the metal, and the alternate wetting and drying existing under atmospheric conditions, are the three main factors in the three-stages formation of that protective passive film.[12]

Source: Wiki

This pillar stands at mute testimony to the highly advanced scientific knowledge of metallurgy that was known in ancient India.

This much is certainly true. India has, in the recent as well as in the ancient past, a great many accomplishments under her belt.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Thank you Harte on your reply I see no ofense at all. We are reasonable people trying to make sense of our world be our means. In the case of the statments be hindu fundamentalist I was not avare I was a fool until you mentioned it If they where fundamentalists, shure there would be an amount on self interest but why in such a extreme to lie to the public showing false facts? So they have the interest in change the view of the world on this mater and they do it fabricating lies.
To what pourpose? Lies have short legs some says...

The metallurgycal explanation you gave me was good so far that now I see that it was exaggerated that it has withstand rust until today. Is time for me to ask if they did know then how produce that iron that way so that it produce a protective shield by time? In the mid of last century there where built a lot of buildings with steel having such kind of shielding like that from architect Eero Saarinen for the John-Deere1960 in Illinois.

Are you aware that even Graham Hancook speaks of the Gulf of Cambay as a fact and is he in your opinion also a liar?

en.wikipedia.org...

In this article it is evident that there is a lot of political ideological interests behind the scenes resisting a new interpretation of the ancient history of that region. The basic negation of it comes from the accuracy of the images, similar debunking like in the case of Yunagumi.

Originally posted by Harte
Here's the ones I use, because they are easily downloaded, they are easy to find, and they are legitimate translations recognized by English-speaking Hindus:
Vedas at Sacred Texts.
My excerpts I provide below can all be found there.

Legitimate translations? That's what YOU think. Recognized by English-speaking Hindus? So? Who are these so called 'English speaking' Hindus? What is their credibility? Exact Sanskrit translations are tricky. It could go both ways. Nuff said.

reply to post by Byrd


last i checked orange was the color of the sacral chakra. i think the hindus would think thats an important color.