Conversation about life.

Hey guys, I'm going to share a bit of a personal conversation I had with a friend recently. I've let too many insightful conversations drift away, and I thought some people here may enjoy it or get something from it. Be warned this isn't written in your usual forum tone, but all the swearing has been filtered out. And also be warned, you may be offended by the "harsh" nature of some of the opinions expressed herein. It gets better further along, that's all I'm going to say for now, enjoy.

CHA0S says:
The only meaning in life is that which we give it...
Neo Dark says:
And what after you die?!? What did you mean then?!?
Is it important people remember you so you can keep having a supposed meaning...
Or is it important to be yourself regardless of whether you're remembered...
CHA0S says:
No...having people remember you means nothing...
Because you will ultimately be forgotten no matter how hard you try...
Time will refresh everything...
Neo Dark says:
At least in the grand scheme of things...
CHA0S says:
Eventually...
And so...in the grand scheme of things...being remembered means nothing...
Neo Dark says:
Everything means nothing...
That's why life is in itself an act only for a selfish existence...
CHA0S says:
So...you think it would be better if nothing at all existed...just an absence? The only thing that "means" something, is the here and now...this "reality" which I am able to experience...because it is not "nothing", and therefore it is "something"...if I choose to waste it and feel that there's no point to it, I may as well just die now because existing just isn't for me...and if I don't wanna die...then I obviously wanna live...and if I wanna live...it means life "means" something to me...
Neo Dark says:
That statement means nothing, you can't decide who you are... and you are never as you see yourself...
You are as everyone else sees you... but only to that person...
CHA0S says:
I never decided anything about who I am...
Neo Dark says:
The thing is, you can think therefore you are to you, but you'll never be that to anyone else and man I wish I knew what I'm saying...
CHA0S says:
If "I wasn't"...I wouldn't be able think because I wouldn't exist...
So there mere fact that I can think proves that "something" and not "nothing" exists as my being...
Neo Dark says:
But who says you even exist?!?
In a real reality...
CHA0S says:
Me...
I say I do...
Neo Dark says:
Who says you aren't just a figment of a memory, or an idea?!?
CHA0S says:
I probably am I dream, or part of a higher imagination, or in virtual reality, but that doesn't change a thing...
In fact, there's a 100% chance we a "virtual" in some way...
We simply aren't as "solid" and material as we like to think...
Neo Dark says:
We're a group of idiots who live to be better than others...
Who hasn't wanted to be famous?!? Or rich?!?
I know I have... simply so I could get a quick fix which I'd try to cruise on til I die...
CHA0S says:
So what, should we all be perfect beings?
Neo Dark says:
No... that's the irony...
As people we are better because we're flawed... without it, then you can't progress...
We live to be the best person we can be, but the only way to achieve that is to be flawed... if we all were "perfect", we'd all be the same...
And perfect isn't a good word to use anyway...
Take away our "leaders" and you still end up with those whose pride and arrogance makes them think they should be in control...
CHA0S says:
We are still a baby species...I trust in the better side of people dude...I see that's what people prefer...people prefer to be loved than hated...people prefer to be happy than sad...take that example of open source software...it thrives even though all it is is people working together to create free things for other people...what drives them is the purpose and meaning of such work...it has more to it than just cash, than being better and richer than others...

Deep down, people just want to try to live in a civil manner where we can all live happily, and our day to day lives have some more apparent "meaning"...no one wants to be sad...it's simple logic...the only reason the world is so #ed is because the systems which we operate in drive us to it...from birth there is no escaping the grip of this scheme...
Neo Dark says:
I guess you try to see the good in the world... but you aren't looking at society... you're looking a passion...
People work on open source # cause they're passionate about it...
CHA0S says:
No...I'm looking at it logically...I'm not saying the world is in a good state at all...you're misunderstanding...
You're the one actually blinded by raging passion...
You have like a deep seeded hatred for humanity...I wouldn't be surprised if you were offered a simple way to exterminate us all, you'd do it...
Neo Dark says:
Lol... why would I?!? That'd affect [NAME REMOVED], [NAME REMOVED], and [NAME REMOVED]...
Why would I want them dead?!?
CHA0S says:
We are like a young "brat" child...that's what I would liken our species to...in that ignorant and naughty stage...you can get real pissed at the absolute absurdity and ignorance of their actions, but that doesn't mean you get a major grudge against the child, lose all hope for it, then proceed to kill it...
Neo Dark says:
Dude... you're a fool if you are thinking of the world like that... you say I'm viewing this world as a passion, I SAID you're viewing the passions... You always take things wrong because you NEVER BOTHER TO THINK!!!
People don't drudge along doing something they hate because it benefits others...
CHA0S says:
lol...I know what you said...and I have bothered to think about it actually, I've thought that for a very long time, it's obvious you have an unwarranted hatred against man-kind...
Neo Dark says:
They do it because they want to do it, either for the reward... self satisfaction... # it... for the challenge... they don't do it because that it'll help others...
CHA0S says:
Dude...you can sit here and point out #ed up things people do all day...
Neo Dark says:
If you can help someone with no loss to you, chances are you'll do it...
CHA0S says:
That doesn't mean anything...
Neo Dark says:
But if you have to do something that detriments you to please them, usually it's because of some underlying cause...
CHA0S says:
You're like "look at this, this, this, and this, whoa man, and no one seems to care or something"...what exactly do you have against everyone, like what do you propose...no existence? Life is just not worth the trouble?
Neo Dark says:
You want to claim I have a hatred towards the world?!? You're a #ing optimist when it comes to humans... would you give your life to save a stranger's?!?
CHA0S says:
No...but I would risk my life if the chances looked good...
Neo Dark says:
Ah ha hah... you are just like how I see people...
Would you give your life to save 2 stranger's?!?
3?!? 4?!? 5?!?
How many?!?
CHA0S says:
I'm not an optimist dude...I'm a person who doesn't just say "Ok, the # is clearly #ed up, I give up, I'll just sit here and whinge how utterly #ed it is"...give up all you want...you're just one more person who can be counted as responsible for our failing...
Neo Dark says:
What's your minimum?!?
CHA0S says:
And it all depends on the situation dude...it's a complex thing...
Neo Dark says:
How many other people's lives is your life worth?!?
No it isn't dude...
These people are random people you don't know...
If you wish to save them... you WILL die...
CHA0S says:
My life doesn't have a "worth" in comparison to others...
Neo Dark says:
They WILL live...
How many would it take for you to be willing to die?!?
CHA0S says:
Dude...let me put it this way...if Humans failed, I wouldn't care for very long, if at all, in reality, Humans mean not much to me...and if life after death was real...and I was for sum reason reincarnated on another planet just as #ed as Earth, or even more so...I would try again...no matter what I felt those beings were worth to me...
Because simply, the other option of doing nothing isn't my style...
Neo Dark says:
So... you wouldn't die for less than 20?!?
Wow.... selfish little bastard aren't you?!?
CHA0S says:
Depends...if I didn't know I would live on...then it depends on how much pain I might feel, and then it depends on how the offer is being made and under what circumstances they would die...and lots of other things...
Neo Dark says:
#...
So, you wouldn't die for 20 strangers?!?
CHA0S says:
In some cases, no I wouldn't...
There are too many Humans on this Earth, that's my view point...now whilst I wont cause a death, I wont prevent death over my life if I don't feel like it...
It's simply at the whim of a decision on whether I feel like it...
My mood, thoughts and other factors would all contribute...
Neo Dark says:
Lol... so... if I'm going to die... I should try to get someone else to help... IF I want to live... if not and I would last my last moment of life to prove that humans are as I believe they are... call on you...
CHA0S says:
What do you believe Humans are as? And why does that then condemn us all in your books? Like seriously, explain what you suggest...do you literally think Humans just shouldn't exist...what is your view point...what are your answers or proposals...or is everything you say based on just a hatred for man-kind and in reality you propose to do nothing but sit there and bitch about it until the day you die...to be forgotten in times to come...
Neo Dark says:
I'd call on someone that I believe is like how I believed [NAME REMOVED] is... because either a. I'll die knowing the world is #ed, and thus happily, or b. I'll live on, believing there is hope, and thus happily...
What I'm saying is one life is equal to another... the true test of people is whether they accept that in the grand scheme every life is just a life... thus, their life is NOT worth more than anyone else's, but nor is anyone else's life worth more than theirs...
CHA0S says:
Haha...so dieing knowing the world is #ed makes you happy...that proves right there you already have a preconceived goal for what man is and will be, and you stick to nothing but the negative side...and if you want to start "comparing" and "equating" everything, it just wont work precisely beyond the realm of mathematics...it's just too hard to describe my view on this...the simplest way I could put it is that a dogs life has no more value than a Humans...
Even a tree...
Though based on what I give personal "value" or meaning, to me a Human is worth saving before a tree, because a Human is more complex, and harder to come by, unless the trees are at risk of course, because the complexity of a tree is not to be understated...
Neo Dark says:
How?!? If I were to die knowing the world is #ed, at least I'd die with the truth... but if I lived... I'd live knowing the world has some chance of not turning out how I see it turning out... a utopia of corruption, propaganda and fraud, all whilst claiming it's for the people who they don't care about... cause that's the way we're #ing going...
CHA0S says:
To me..."simple" is closer to nothing...like if everything was like a 1D surface of one material only or something...nothing "complex" exists...and so complexity is the essence of life...without it we couldn't exist, it gives us "something" instead of "nothing"...
Neo Dark says:
You sir... are an idiot...
We already have debated 1D to death...
It doesn't exist...
Unless it's just time...
CHA0S says:
...don't change the subject...understand my underlying point...if the world was full of only simple spheres and cubes things wouldn't be very interesting...i.e. the simpler you get, the less likely life will exist...I wouldn't want to exist in such a pathetic Universe, therefore I see complexity as having value to me...
The complexity of our brain is what allows the generation of sentience and self awareness...truly one of the most mysterious and mind-boggling mechanisms in existence...
Neo Dark says:
So, you don't see the fact that none of us truly matter and yet we act like we matter so much so that we hurt other # that matters just as much as us... I guess war is about as worthwhile as living aye?!? Because in the end, there will have been no net gain or net loss...
To you war is a good thing then...
It adds to life's complexity...
CHA0S says:
This is so significant..."you don't see the fact that none of us truly matter and yet we act like we matter"...as I said, you're the only one that can give any meaning to your life...it's in your hands..."beauty is in the eye of the beholder" they say...that applies with life in general...if you want to see nothing beautiful in life, and only be surrounded by "darkness", that's you're choice...
Neo Dark says:
You act as if I'm a cynic, but in the same sense, I believe I am also a realist... I WANT to see the world in a better way, but... what other way can I see it?!? Us humans don't accept we are worthless, we try to give ourselves meaning... look at how we are... materialism, religion, bigotry... all to give ourselves more meaning than someone else...
CHA0S says:
Dude...do you think I see Humans in a positive light? Seriously?!?
You're missing a crucial point to this whole thing...
It essentially has nothing to do with Humans...
It has to do with you create an inescapable cycle of misery...is that what you want?
Neo Dark says:
Very much so...
Lol...
You WANT to believe there's a level of hope... so you say there's hope...
CHA0S says:
...there's always hope...
Would you say there's even a 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.1% chance?
I would...
Neo Dark says:
Nope...
CHA0S says:
So you believe firmly odds are an absolute 0%? You're joking right?
Neo Dark says:
I may say there's a 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance... but not a 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.1% chance...
1 in 1/1000 dude?!? Are you kidding?!? Less than that...
Whoops...
1 in 1000....
CHA0S says:
This still really has nothing to do with the odds of man kind "pulling through"...well it does, it represents whether you want to care about the fate of Humans to the degree where you can't live as a Human...

...it's basically...you see it as either one of two ways...1) You try to "blend in" with the world and the way people are, because life isn't livable otherwise 2) Just ignore the world and do God knows what, wait to you die I guess...you hinge you're whole life on a few details...can you not see there are other options...

The way I see it, you've given up on man and even life at this point...but I fail to see how you justify that...you blame everyone else for your inability to live...
Neo Dark says:
Maybe, but maybe I just don't see the good points... like the wars... the oil spills ... the deception... the #ing ignorance... it's better to enjoy what you do and die young then hate what you do and die old if this is the world we're stuck with. And, ironically, in this world people would defend the same system that has them caged, because they believe it makes them free...
CHA0S says:
And you go on continuing the same old thing...
Blaming everything else..."I don't see the good points"..."everything is #ed"..."there is no hope"..."pure darkness"...those two words match you better than I ever imagined...

I read it. Good conversation. I think the Human race can and will change for the best, eventually.

reply to post by CHA0S


Peace be upon oh CHAOS!
Thanks for sharing the conversation. I don't know how the two of you felt, but at points in the dialogue I felt some amounts of irritation, frustration, and defensiveness.

I do understand where Neo Dark is coming from, but I don't agree. Yes, humanity is evil, corrupt, selfish, blood-thirsty, greedy, etc. But without negativity there would be no significance in the good, the light, or the love. Humanity seems to be moving towards a negative polarity, but that doesn't mean "the whole world... all of humanity is f# up."

Humans are killing animals and ruining nature, but what about those that are working to save endangered species, rescuing animals, and actively speaking out against pollution and the such? Humans murder and rape, but what about those working to save lives? Wars happen, but what about those advocating peace? Is the glass half full or half empty? Both!!! It depends how you chose to use your creative thoughts to perceive this existence.

Are you familiar with the cereal Lucky Charms? Let's compare this to humanity. The cereal pieces can represent the bad in humanity, while the marshmallows can represent the good in humanity. Sure there are lots of cereal pieces, but it just makes the marshmallows all the more sweet and enjoyable.

Thanks again for sharing, I enjoyed the read

reply to post by Sahabi


lol well said Sahabi, i like the marshmallow part. Like you said, not everyone is evil.

reply to post by Sahabi

Humanity seems to be moving towards a negative polarity, but that doesn't mean "the whole world... all of humanity is f# up."

Humans are killing animals and ruining nature, but what about those that are working to save endangered species, rescuing animals, and actively speaking out against pollution and the such?

Star for that post. That's exactly how I feel. There is good in the world and in humanity. There is hope. Don't kneel down in submission. It's exactly what they want you to do. I'll be back later to check on this thread.