Sweet revenge

If any one looks at the world today, why do one side opress the other.
People still have feelings, some want to take them away.
People with feelings want revenge, I hope there will come a day where those without feelings will have feelings.
Funny thing you can still have feelings and know, those that pick sides are going to lose.
Revenge on what, on machines ? on people that don't care at all ? It's like you punch a robot and it does not feel.
Problem is how do you make the robot not a robot so that it feels the concept. The cure for the snake lies in the dark.If I'm a snake I would pray the dark would come soon to feel my self. Darkness for those that do not feel would be like spring. This time it will be different. Some get called some get saved, some will continiue here.

Expat888 and JayXBraun,

An old proverb.. When setting out on a journey of revenge.. First dig two graves - one for your enemy..the other for yourself.. Pointless to seek revenge.. it only adds to the misery in the world...

revenge only breeds more hate and pain and in the end, more revenge

I agree with both you guys and this is how I feel about revenge as well but why is it that "personal justice" is so glorified?? Why do we get that warm fuzzy feeling when Bruce Willis slaughters a couple of dozen "bad guys", to avenge his loved one??

It's everywhere!! The story of the underdog standing up for himself, taking matters into his own hands and everybody is cheering it on.....

Why does revenge sometimes taste sweet when we know it isn't right??

Peace

reply to post by getreadyalready


I agree, I am 16 so I am probably part of a completely different generation but I practically raised myself and I grew up with the idea of being the best person people meet, and I suppose it was my morals that made me that. I have alot of friends who talk about girls in that way that girls are seen as objects and I am upfront with them and if they have a go at me for being different to them then I am happy to not be their friend, but in saying that I also choose the right friends so they respect my values and generally don't talk like that around me and I don't swear so they don't really swear around me much.

I was going to start a thread about how your attitude rubs off on the people around you but I haven't got 20 posts yet obviously. But morals above friends any day because if your willing to alter your values just for some people in your life then anything can grab you and drag you off to places and things you were completely against.

reply to post by operation mindcrime

Man, I wish I could agree with you because that would make things a lot easier on my conscience. And I understand what you are saying but we have to make a separation between "revenge" based on your own idea of wrong and right, and "revenge" based on society's idea of wrong and right.

Sorry for very late reply.

I disagree with you on this point. "My" view of what is right and wrong is the view that counts!! I could care less about societies view. I will operate on my own set of morality and rules, and in most cases it is conducive to societies established laws, but when the two disagree, I will follow my own morality above societies norms or establishment. This applies to revenge as well as anything. I could give a million examples if you would like, but in general too many people are in jail, and not enough people have gotten whooped by a mad Daddy. "Natural" consequences go so much further to a civilized society than 1000s of pages of ridiculous laws.

I also vote for politicians that give the impression that they would act accordingly. I would rather have an elected leader that would follow their own set of morals and do what they think is right regardless of political backlash or established laws and norms.

I do not believe for 1 second that anyone should compromise their own belief system to conform with society.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
With a smirk on his face he told me that that is the only way you should handle these matters. So I continued to explain to him that the choices you make in life are also the things you are going to be held accountable for.

I think There is also intention which comes before making choices and they have to be made with a certain level of awareness in order to be held accountable for.

So my question is did you ever take revenge on somebody in such a manner that it actually made you feel good??

Peace

Isn't it much more fun not to take revenge but rather being there watching when "it" comes around (as in what comes around goes around).

Good job on behalf of all the roadkills. Shame on your friend.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Thanks for the reply getreadyalready. You have a good argument but I am still not convinced....

I disagree with you on this point. "My" view of what is right and wrong is the view that counts!! I could care less about societies view. I will operate on my own set of morality and rules, and in most cases it is conducive to societies established laws, but when the two disagree, I will follow my own morality above societies norms or establishment.

Admirable attitude and I am guessing that, with your level of sanity, it is an attitude one can afford but I can't help but worry about the implications of making this an acceptable attitude. If you get to operate on your own set of morals and values then your ignorant neighbor is validated in his actions according to his set of morals and values.

This could mean that, because of his firm conviction in equality, he comes over to your house and takes your BBQ because he doesn't have one.

I know you would be ready to negotiate your neighbor's idea with a big ol' baseball bat but what if it's your granny's BBQ that he is after?? She really has no option to defend her morals and values and is basically forced to accept the ideals of others..........that's not fair!!

Well, it's fair on an evolutionary scale but since we are social creatures, you get to explain your plans on defending your own morals and values to all the old,young and disabled.

"Natural" consequences go so much further to a civilized society than 1000s of pages of ridiculous laws.

I agree!!!..........but the cost is too high! We could learn, through natural consequences, that taking an other man's life is wrong but then you should also willingly accept that you might end up as study material (and you don't even get to complain about it!!!!).

I also vote for politicians that give the impression that they would act accordingly. I would rather have an elected leader that would follow their own set of morals and do what they think is right regardless of political backlash or established laws and norms.

I agree but the difference here is that you appoint a person to act upon his own set of morals and values because it is generally assumed this person is capable of acting accordingly and in line with the public interest. It is definitely not the same as allowing every random yahoo to act upon hisown notion of right and wrong.

I do not believe for 1 second that anyone should compromise their own belief system to conform with society.

Acceptable....but than you should also not expect society to compromise it's ideals when you make an appeal.

Peace

reply to post by Dragonfly79

Dragonfly79,

I think There is also intention which comes before making choices and they have to be made with a certain level of awareness in order to be held accountable for.

Agreed!!! Understandably I was talking about deliberate choices.....I am not suggesting that we electrocute people because they only have an I.Q. of 73 and lack the intelligence to calculate the outcome of their action...........oh, wait......we're already doing that?? My bad...

Isn't it much more fun not to take revenge but rather being there watching when "it" comes around (as in what comes around goes around).

Karma has always been my good friend and I love to see it in action but in this instance I saw it fit to help it out a little bit..............and that, in my humble opinion, is wrong...

....Wrong but nice.

Peace

I have to say, I do not agree with what your friend did, but I surely don't agree with what you did either. You purposefully telling all your friends and even posting on a website is the equivalent of what your friend did to prove his point.
You are punishing your friend by forcing consequences upon him. You are being the judge , and you are creating the consequences that are affecting your friend. Nature is not creating the consequences--you are. So do you feel a bit guilty or is posting this here your way of further creating consequences? People and all other social, competitive creatures enjoy revenge because winning means surviving.


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reply to post by Sf18443

Thanks for the input Sf18443,

You are punishing your friend by forcing consequences upon him. You are being the judge , and you are creating the consequences that are affecting your friend. Nature is not creating the consequences--you are.

I pushed karma out of the driving seat and took matters into my own hands........indeed. I am ashamed.

So do you feel a bit guilty or is posting this here your way of further creating consequences?

Guilt...definitely guilt and an urge to understand this emotion. (I doubt that you knowing this will have any impact on his experience of consequence). And in all honesty, he told me about his idea on a certain matter (backing his point up with action) and I merely spread his message. If he believes in his own ideas, he should not have a problem with other people knowing about it, right??

I know he was only acting tough and that he really didn't believe his own reasoning and that is what makes me guilty. While I knew that what he said was not how he really thought about it, I responded in a matter as if I believed his reasoning and created a platform for him to express his opinion.........

People and all other social, competitive creatures enjoy revenge because winning means surviving.

Huh?? (respectfully, that is)....revenge = winning?? I thought that, among social creatures, the consensus was that the society itself means survival??

I thought revenge was more like the manifestation of one's frustration. The fact that somebody else wins and gets to survive while you get to loose and die is hard to accept when you have reason.

Peace

Oh PS:

other social, competitive creatures

What other social, competitive creature, beside humans, are there that are capable of experiencing revenge?? Don't you need a self perceived identity for that??

reply to post by operation mindcrime


You are correct, in your example, my Granny would have me to defend her grill, but the neighbor may have someone bigger and meaner than me, etc., etc. It is just a matter of "real" or "perceived" power and to the victor go the spoils. It is a flawed system.

Our system of laws operates in this manner already! Better attorney, more money = more "fair" treatment under the law. We already operate in a flawed system, with the state being the biggest bully on the block and deciding what is "right" or "wrong" for everyone. Ideally the state would be operating for the greater good of the society, but unfortunately that doesn't always happen. Therefore, within that grand scheme of a civilized society, you also have little islands of sanity and insanity. It is like a check and balance. Some people need the state to step up and defend them, while other people need to operate on a higher standard and keep the state in check. It is an "adversarial" system.

Similarly, our capitalist economy operates on the notion that all businesses are either growing or shrinking, and in the end (according to Marx) the ultimate conclusion of a capitalist economy is a giant socialist economy ran by a few huge corporations giving the impression of a free market. (I think Marx was correct, and we are almost there!)

Therefore, in life, in neighborly behavior, in economics, in child-rearing, and in government, we MUST have people like you and me that are willing to stand out, stand up, take the lumps, maybe even live with some guilt, sacrifice, or repercussions because we were able and willing to be the exception to the rules. Without us it is a fast slide down the slippery slope to Socialist economy and Socialist laws.

Either (1)your mean neighbor gets the grill, or (2) you step in and defend the grill for granny against all comers, at all costs, or (3)the state steps in and defends the grill for granny and decides it is too nice of a grill and it should go to the governor and granny and the neighbor can each have a cheaper grill so that there is no conflict and everyone is satisfied. I don't like options 1 or 3. And maybe 3 is far-fetched for today, but it is just around the corner without someone taking option 2 every now and then.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
I agree with both you guys and this is how I feel about revenge as well but why is it that "personal justice" is so glorified?? Why do we get that warm fuzzy feeling when Bruce Willis slaughters a couple of dozen "bad guys", to avenge his loved one??

It's everywhere!! The story of the underdog standing up for himself, taking matters into his own hands and everybody is cheering it on.....

Why does revenge sometimes taste sweet when we know it isn't right??

Peace

Most people have basically good morals.

That's why most people enjoy a scene in a film where the bad guy or the bully gets their arse kicked by someone that they've tormented, because we like to see those that don't share our morals getting their comeuppance from someone that does.

I'm not particularly vengeful, and when I do get the opportunity to carry out an act of ''righteous'' revenge, then I usually don't have the heart to go through with it.


The reason I think gaining revenge can often be pleasurable or sweet, is because we are surrounded by a world of seeming injustice, misery and unfairness.

This is our chance of ''playing God'', and an opportunity for us to be the personal arbitors of ''righteous justice''.

reply to post by operation mindcrime


My opinion, there is a difference between Revenge and Justice. What your friend is
experiencing seems like justice to me, revenge would be him crossing the street and
getting hit by a car. (Could also be considered Justice depending on how many times
he purposely did it without reason).