The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites

"The Jews now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea"
True enough, but does that really matter? I think not. Israel was established by law and therefore is a legiimate nation. It really doesn't matter where the peoples ancesteral roots are. Khazers? so what! Converts? So what! None of this matters because they indeed have a nice little country established under the law. It is a fact and it is not going to change.

Now, having said that I have a few important points to make. Having been established under international law, Israel has an moral obligation to adhere to international law. This is something the Israeli government has been loath to do since the very moment of it's inception. What are their violations of international law? Well the major violations are.
Under International Law the following is forbidden

* Colonisation of occupied territory.
* acquiring territory through force of arms.
* forced transfering of the indigineous population
* genocide

In addition there have been over 160 UN Resolutions which Israel has totally ignored.

Israel had well established borders when they declared statehood in 1948. THOSE are Israels LEGAL borders. Anything beyond the 1948 borders are, under International Law, ILLEGAL. Now, everyone talks about the 1967 armistice lines as the future border of Israel. Why? Why should Israel be rewarded for breaking International Law. As a result of the war they had a legal right to occupy the land beyond the borders of Israel but NOT to colonise the land and certainly not to dispossess the indigineous people of their land in order to colonise it.
Immediately after Israels declaration of statehood the Huganah ( The future IDF) Razed over 350 villages of the indigineous people, killing many (genocide) and forcing the others to flee for their lives to other countries where to this day they live in refugee camps. (forced transfer)

Now, under international law these refugees and their decendants have the LEGAL right to return to their homes .(now occupied by Israelis) As a CONDITION of UN recognition of Israel, Israel agreed to allow the refugees to return to their homes at the earliest possible time. Of course we now know it was NEVER Israels intention to follow through with their agreement.

Today Israel makes the argument that allowing the return of the refugees would destroy the nature of a "Jewish State" Perhaps, but it would NOT destroy the State of Israel! Israel insists on being recognized as a "Jewish State" (where non Jews are discriminated against) What if the US decided to identify itself as a Christian State? (with all non Christians discriminated against) Do you think that would fly?

There is certainly a time to come when the Non Jewish population in Israel will be denied the right to vote because their numbers will have increased to the point where a non Jew could concievably be elected Prime Minister. THIS is why Israel insists on being recognised as a "Jewish State" to deny non Jews the right to vote for PM.
The solution to all this is not as complicated as you have been led to believe.

First there must be elections in Gaza and the West Bank to elect legal leaders as the present leaders terms have expired. The election should be organised and monitored by the international community. THEN proper negotiations between the occupying power (Israel) and the leaders of the indigineous people (Palestinians) could take place. Trade between the negotiating countries and the rest of the world should be suspended until an agreement is reached. (Bet there is an agreement within 90 days) Perhaps the Palestinians will agree to extend Israels borders to the 1967 lines as they have already said they are willing to do. But Israel should understand this would be a gift as Israels legitimate borders were established in 1948. The Palestinian state must be contiguous with true sovergnty. They should have control over their own borders with no interferrence from Israel.
They probably will not require an army if they come under another countries "Umbrella". The "Right of Return" is an individual right that may not be negotiated away. So either retroactively change the law or allow their return. Perhaps many will accept citizenship in another country or perhaps a compensation package and waive their right. But unless the law is changed they have the RIGHT to return to their homes. Settlers will either become citizens of the new State if Palestine or return to Israel. That would be up to the new Palestinian government since they are for the most part living on land that is NOT theirs.

There is of course more to it than this and I do not want to be too simplistic but there is a solution and the world community must force it on both parties.
If we allow a country to spit in the face of International law without consequences then the law will become meaningless. Any country today could morally ignore International law by simply stateing "We will obey the law when Israel does' If Israel is not held accountable then why should any country fear reprisal?




www.veteranstoday.com...

reply to post by gem_man


I was hoping to hear evidence, argument, and/or speculation of:

The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites

Although I agree with parts of your OP, you gave arguments against the so-called state of israel instead of presenting even one proof of Palestinians being descendants of ancient Israelites.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong! The Palestinians are the Philistines, who already occupied the Promised Land prior to the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt. Palestinians are Arabs, and Arabs are the descendants of Abraham's son Ishmael. The Israelites are descendants of Abrahams other son Isaac. So this would make Arabs the cousins of the Israelites, not their descendants.

reply to post by Sahabi


Try reading the link!

reply to post by Sahabi


What makes you think Palestinians are Arabs? They are called Arabs because they speak arabic. They speak arabic because after the mohamadam wars they converted to Islam and arabic became the language of the land. Arabs did not settle in conquered countries in mass.

Maybe it's early and I'm not thinking clearly yet but wouldnt the same argument be made for america ?
The original dwellers were all but exterminated and currently reside in limited terrible conditions and are treated poorly by the 'current' americans, the current americans (government) do what they want without answering to anyone, and it can also be argued that the state of israel influences and runs the current american government,
and isnt israel suppose to be reconstructed only upon gods return, by god himself?
Anyway you slice it's still people treating people like crap standing on poor validation for behaviors,
claiming to overcome oppression by oppressing others, claiming it's progress by destroying others.
Like I said it's early.

Native Americans, Africans & now Pale's are descendants of Ancient Israelites huh? I call disinfo on this thread.

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


That was never said anywhere, although I did show a connection to the behaviors of those 'taking' the land and claiming exclusive rights to it.
There's nothing wrong or weak in doing the right thing, whether it be helping people or bringing awareness that will hopefully help people, I see no disinfo.

Originally posted by gem_man
reply to post by Sahabi

 

Try reading the link!

I did read the link. Fourth paragraph:

Historians agree- despite the scanty archeological findings- that the ancient Israelites inhabited part of Palestine- or the southern Levant- thousands of years ago. But so did the Phoenicians, the Canaanites, Philistines , the Hittites and the Aramaeans.

Your referenced article/link only gives arguments that, genetically, some major groups of Jews are converts to Judaism and are not descended from original Jewish blood-lines. Ok, great argument, but where is the proof saying, "The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites,"??? The article you linked clearly states that the Israelites co-inhabited the Promised Land WITH Philistines.

What makes you think Palestinians are Arabs? They are called Arabs because they speak arabic. They speak arabic because after the mohamadam wars they converted to Islam and arabic became the language of the land. Arabs did not settle in conquered countries in mass.

Well, there so far has only been speculation as to the exact origin of the Philistine people. Indo-European, Mycenaean perhaps? But for the sake of simplicity, the Philistines are now a genetic mixture of all of their neighbors. Today they speak Arabic, Palestine is a member of The Arab League, and they do have Arab blood in their people... so what's the problem with calling them Arabs?


Your thread is called, "The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites."

•Where is evidence, argument, or speculation to support your thread title?

•Philistines developed in the Northern part of the Promised Land. Originated from Europe. Archeology and Bible!

•Israelites (Hebrews) developed in the Southern part of the Promised Land. Originated from Babylon (via. Abraham - Isaac - Jacob). Archeology and Bible!

•The ONLY attempt to "prove" Palestinians descended from Israelites is the very last two sentences of the article, 'History negates that the ancient Israelites ever left their home land and approves the thesis of their conversion to Islam in the 7th century and in doing so undermines the historical connection of modern Jews to the land of modern day Palestine. History says the chances that the Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Judaic people are much greater than the chances that modern Israelis are its descendents.'

So... the article starts by saying the Israelites lived in Canaan with Philistines, then it ends saying Philistines descended from Israelites? If they both existed at the same time, how can one be descended from the other? The evidence presented is, "chances." Am I missing something here?

•I am NOT arguing questionable blood-lines of European, African, or Arab Israeli Jews.

•I am NOT arguing in favor of the so-called state of israel or zionism. Personally, I believe the Palestinians have more right to the land than the Jews.

•I am arguing your misleading thread title.

So all the Biblical references to what happens to the enemies of Israel applies to the Palestinian's and not the Khazar pretenders?reply to post by gem_man

the final word in the linked article says:

History says the chances that the Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Judaic people are much greater than the chances that modern Israelis are its descendents.

in my mind the indigenous Palestinians are descendants from the lost Ten Tribes
of course they're not Jews ... but they have Israelite heritage.

the Jewish state does have a modern legal claim to a two-state parcel of land...
and just as before the Babylonian captivity the Jewish tribe took ahold of the prize possession
which was the Jerusalem environs,

so too the modern drama repeats itself...as the other Israelite tribes/peoples are pushed out
into the fringe & desolate areas. the levant/palestine.

let the historians and the DNA record prevail over the modern politics

reply to post by St Udio


If Palestinians are descended from tribes of Israel, please answer me who were the Philistines? Archeology shows Philistines originate from the North/West from Europe. Archeology shows Hebrews originate from the South/East.

Modern Palestinians are a mixture of Indo-European, Mycenaean, Canaanite, Arab, and who knows what else nowadays.

Where is the proof of Palestinians being descended from the tribes of israel, as opposed to being a separate co-existing ethnicity?

I'm not arguing Mongol and European origins of modern zionists.

Originally posted by gem_man
"The Jews now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the so called Kingdom of Judea"
True enough, but does that really matter? I think not. Israel was established by law and therefore is a legiimate nation. It really doesn't matter where the peoples ancesteral roots are. Khazers? so what! Converts? So what! None of this matters because they indeed have a nice little country established under the law. It is a fact and it is not going to change.

under the law?

dude israel doesnt even have international borders. they do not agree on signing any international borders because they only plan to expand. if they do set up borders with their neighbours then any time israel invades it will be against international law and therefore punished just like iraq in 1991, gulf war when it invaded kuwait and had to fight 30+ countries.

greater israel stretches from the nile river in eygpt, to the euphrates in iraq.

reply to post by gem_man


The Philistines and the Hebrew people are a different distinct people to that of the Palestinians and the Jews of today. Most Jews are decendants of the Israelites (the Hebrew people) and the Hebrew people decended from the Habiru People. Most Palestinians decended from many peoples including the Israelites, the Hebrews, Assyrian, Egyptian, Phoenician, etc. The Philistines and the Phoenican peoples were neighbors and many intermarried.

The Israelites are those who decended from one branch of the Hebrew people - the children and their decendants of the Jacob (Israel) & his 4 wives Leah & Rachel & Zilpah & Bilah. Jacob had 13 children in total.

God's inheritance was passed to Avraham then to his son Issac then to his son Jacob (Israel) then to his grandson Ephraim (youngest son of Joseph; eldest son of Jacob & Rachel). Keep this in mind as this is a vital key in the end of times - the tribes (decendants) of Judah and Ephraim.

This is disputed territory but there is some reason to believe Joseph's youngest wife was possibly his niece (adopted in to a very wealthy Egyptian family), daughter to Dinah and Prince Shalem. Hence why Joseph was handed the nation of Shechem as a wedding present from the Pharaoh himself and Jacob passed his inheritance to Joseph's youngest son Ephraim and not Manasseh. If this is true then Ephraim was Jacob's only grandson with a pure bloodline of all Jacob's grandchildren. This is questionable but makes sence. *Prince Shalem was heir to the throne of Shechem but was slaughtered along with his father King Hamor by Simon and Levi (2 of the sons of Jacob & Leah).

Jacob's brother Esau was a Hebrew but Not an Israelite and his 3 wives Adath & Basemath & Oholibama. Esau had 10 children in total.

The Saxons/Normans/Danish/Welsh (among others) are decendants made up mainly of the Israelite tribes of Judah, Levi, Dan, Benjamin, Ephraim, Manasseh.

DNA tests have proved the Palestinians and the Sephardic Jewish people are closest cousins. Their next best cousins are their European Ashkenazi cousins whose bloodlines are mainly decendants of Jacob & Leah.

In the 19th century there were only 350,000 of which were a mix of both Palestinians and Jews. By 1914, Palestine was made up of 657,000 Arab Muslims, 81,000 Arab Christians, 59,000 Jews. From 1920 there was a great influx of Jews in to Palestine as well as Arabs from other nations. Most of these Arab immigrants were brought to Palestine as Labourers to work on the farms for Jews.

The British Mandate continues to hold records of all immigrants between 1920 and 1945. I would dispute any Arab immigrating to Palestine within this time frame claiming to be a decendant of the Israelites. A large number of Gazans have stronger blood lines to Egypt unlike their many of their brothers in the West Bank. Most Israeli Arabs today decended from the Arabs before 1920.

The Khazars were a semi-nomadic Turkic (cousins to the Turks) tribe. They adopted Judaism and settled mainly in Southern Russia, were a culturally distinct people and today some of their decendants are now settled in Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan & the Ukraine. Ashkenazis never settled among them and that refutes your post. Many Armenians, the Japanese and Korean people are close cousins to the Khazars. It is known the Khazars are decendants of Japheth, one of the sons of Noach. Japheth was indeed the father of the Indo-European people. You really need to know alot more about the Khazars before you spout your mouth off.

Actually I think Arab Palestinians and Jews are basically the same people, genetically speaking. The difference is Jews have mixed with Europeans, but overall, they share a lot of the same DNA.

As for the Arabs in general, many are decendants of Avraham through his son Ishmael however many of Ishmael's decendants more likely than not married among some decendants of Esau as well Jacob however the Arabs are generally a vast mix of many peoples.

Keep in mind that there were many different tribes in the Middle East other than Avraham (the father of both the Arabs and Hebrews/Israelites) ; all directly decended from Noach (Noah).

reply to post by 19872012


You are correct although to be more specific Palestinians and Sephardic Jews are alot closer in DNA than that of the Palestinian and Ashkenazi Jews and the Sephardic Jews and Ashkenazi Jews are alot closer in DNA.

Does that make sence?

40 years from the world is going to look completely different from now, just like 40 years ago the middle east was completely different. in the end it will the new generation that makes peace, because with racist zionists like netanyahu, peace is impossible. add that pr-ck larry king who was trying to bait amhadinejad in last nights interview to the list. the zionists use the death of other people, the millions of jews who died during the holocaust, to their advantage, which makes them much worse than anything amhadinejad can say or do.

reply to post by 19872012

Yes they are, but mixing ocured and people became "jews" over night. It's a sharade. Not the same people that use to be. As you can see the notion of this word, Isra-"elites"

Originally posted by bluemirage5
As for the Arabs in general, many are decendants of Avraham through his son Ishmael however many of Ishmael's decendants more likely than not married among some decendants of Esau as well Jacob however the Arabs are generally a vast mix of many peoples.

Keep in mind that there were many different tribes in the Middle East other than Avraham (the father of both the Arabs and Hebrews/Israelites) ; all directly decended from Noach (Noah).

bluemirage5

The problem will always be the mythological construct of Noah and his sons that has no basis in reality. The facts show indigenous aboriginal (Canaanite) people still existing in Israel that are neither Palestinians or Caucaziod Jews fwd4.me...

reply to post by Athonyj


Caucazoid Jews? A tone of racism there in your description....

much like if I described Arab Muslims as Islamzoid Arabs.

So you actually mean ASHKENAZI Jews?

Why is it Arabs and Palestinians in general refuse to acknowledge the SEPHARDIC Jews? These are the Middle Eastern Jews that Arab nations either forced out or kicked out of their nations from 1950 leaving behind all their assets that total well in to the tens of billions of dollars.