The Official Conspiracy Theory doesn't even make sense

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by aethron
It's not what you'd really expect considering the hundreds of billions of dollars that have been spent over decades to ensure such things do not happen.

Care to show us exactly where hundreds of billions was spent to stop aircraft after they were hijacked.... No, I did not think you could! Just another truther lie!

No, not another "Truther Lie" it is spent on a little thing called NORAD. The North American Aerospace Defense Command. We have been spending money on it for years, surely you have heard of it.

So what is NORAD and what does it do?

The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) is a bi-national United States and Canadian organization charged with the missions of aerospace warning, aerospace control and maritime warning for North America. Aerospace warning includes the monitoring of man-made objects in space, and the detection, validation, and warning of attack against North America whether by aircraft, missiles, or space vehicles, through mutual support arrangements with other commands. Aerospace control includes ensuring air sovereignty and air defense of the airspace of Canada and the United States.

Source

Of course one can say just about anything at all and make it sound good, but in practice does not always work out as planned. So how does NORAD work in practice? Well that is where the case of Golfer Payne Stewart makes for a great example. Back in 1999 Payne Stewart, along with 5 others boarded a plane in Florida that was due to land in Texas. Shortly after take off the plane lost cabin pressure and everyone on board the plane lost consciousness due to lack of oxygen. The plane flew on autopilot, flying off course where it eventually crashed in South Dakota. Now what makes this story so interesting is the response.

Now the jet departed Orlando FL at 9:19am on Oct 25, 1999. The FAA claims to have lost contact with the jet at 9:44am. However a later report by the NTSB claimed the plane failed to respond to controllers at 9:33am. and that they tried several times over the next 4 and a half minutes to make contact with no success. NORAD’s Southeast Air Defense Sector was notified of the emergency at 9:55 a.m. At 10:08 a.m., two F-16 fighters from Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida were asked to intercept the plane.

Now do the math. If we use the earlier time of 9:33am of lost contact that means it took NORAD 41 minutes to scramble fighters to intercept a jet that simply lost radio contact. You see, in the USA even before 9/11, you could not simply fly around in our airspace without someone knowing what is going on and where you are going and what you are doing. It does not work that way, and that is the job of NORAD. So if a small jet can be intercepted in 1999 after 41 minutes, how do several 767 passenger planes fly around in our airspace for appox 2 hours without being intercepted?

So much for the truther lie huh? Looks more like a believer looking the other way in the face of facts.

reply to post by GenRadek

So if there are already and were missile sites in and around the DC area, then why did they deploy Avenger AA systems mounted on the HUMVEEs around the Pentagon and other areas in DC?

My question would be why weren't AA bearing HUMVEE's deployed when it became clear that America was under 'attack' from the air, which was half an hour before the explosion at the Pentagon?

If there weren't SAM's around Washington, my question would be 'Why the heck not?'

Don't those people in Washington realise how important they are to America?

Luckily for the people in Washington, bin Laden's minions overcame unbelievable odds to reach the Pentagon,only to have the stupidity to crash into the side of the building opposite the offices of the Top Brass, in an area which had been under renovation for months, and was being used by an outside team of auditors investigating a trillion dollar discrepancy in the Pentagon accounts.

Some of the auditors were killed in the attack.

Surely in the real world, having got so far as the Pentagon, they would have flown across the Potomac and crashed into the White House.... after all, it's the White House that tells the Pentagon what to do...

reply to post by MrWendal


And how long did it take them to find the plane?

Originally posted by aethron
What terrorist in his right mind would ...

Let me just say there is something wrong with these seven words.

-ET

Originally posted by MrWendal
Now the jet departed Orlando FL at 9:19am on Oct 25, 1999. The FAA claims to have lost contact with the jet at 9:44am. However a later report by the NTSB claimed the plane failed to respond to controllers at 9:33am. and that they tried several times over the next 4 and a half minutes to make contact with no success. NORAD’s Southeast Air Defense Sector was notified of the emergency at 9:55 a.m. At 10:08 a.m., two F-16 fighters from Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida were asked to intercept the plane.

Now do the math. If we use the earlier time of 9:33am of lost contact that means it took NORAD 41 minutes to scramble fighters to intercept a jet that simply lost radio contact. You see, in the USA even before 9/11, you could not simply fly around in our airspace without someone knowing what is going on and where you are going and what you are doing. It does not work that way, and that is the job of NORAD. So if a small jet can be intercepted in 1999 after 41 minutes, how do several 767 passenger planes fly around in our airspace for appox 2 hours without being intercepted?

Classic Truther fail.

ATC lost contact with N47BA at 9:33 EDT, interception took place at 9:54 CDT. That is nearly 1½ hours after they lost contact with the jet. Moreover, the transponder stayed on for the duration of the flight, so ATC knew exactly where he was for the entirety of the flight. On 9/11 the transponders were turned off, making it nigh impossible for ATC to track the flights. The only exception was UA175, where the hijackers typed in a random squawk code, but ATC thought it was having technical difficulties and didn't realise it had been hijacked.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


I have seen the photographic evidence of a steel beam being vaporised during the supposed 'pancake' fall off the WTC towers. I have been searching for the images via Google (our master) but it seems to not give any links to the images.
Not sure, at all, if this is the "smoking gun" but, for me, it would seem very strange that IF this is a steel beam and IF this is an authentic shot from the 911 tower collapse then how does it fit into a 'pancake' theory heated by jet fuel?

Originally posted by JonU2
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

I have seen the photographic evidence of a steel beam being vaporised during the supposed 'pancake' fall off the WTC towers. I have been searching for the images via Google (our master) but it seems to not give any links to the images.

Are you thinking of the 'spire'?

The DEW believes usually present the following image sequence as proof of 'dustification':


However, it tends to fall a bit flat on its face, once you watch the actual video sequence, where it's bleeding obvious that the spire is collapsing.

reply to post by MrWendal

So if a small jet can be intercepted in 1999 after 41 minutes, how do several 767 passenger planes fly around in our airspace for appox 2 hours without being intercepted?

Good question...care to answer it?

The interception of hijacked commercial aircraft by the military was what NORAD had been trained to do...

The US military conducted a training exercise in the five days before the September 11 attacks that included simulated aircraft hijackings by terrorists, according to a 9/11 Commission document recently found in the US National Archives. In one of the scenarios, implemented on September 9, terrorists hijacked a London to New York flight, planning to blow it up with explosives over New York.

In the September 9 scenario, the fictitious terrorists’ goal seems to have been to kill New Yorkers with the rain of debris following the plane’s explosion. However, in the exercise, the military intercepted the plane and forced it away from the city. When the terrorists realized they were not near New York, they blew the plane up “over land near the divert location,” leaving no survivors. The military unit most involved in this scenario was NORAD’s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS), which also played a key role in the air defense response to the 9/11 attacks, two days later.

hcgroups.wordpress.com...

NORAD didn't do what they were trained to do...Why not?

If they had done what they were trained to do, bin Ladens' plan would have failed miserably. How could bin Laden hope NORAD would not do what it was trained to do? Is he psychic?

In addition, since the Official Story claims Bin Laden is still alive, the entire war on terrorism should be designed to capture Bin Laden, but that is obviously not going to happen. They are intentionally concealing the "head" of the taliban so they can wage perpetual war. If you believed terrorists attacked America on 9/11, then you already eliminated 19 of the perpetrators (they conveniently took care of themselves), so all you have to deal with is the gang-leader, Osama Bin Laden. But, uh, yeah, his name is not even mentioned too often in the news.

reply to post by aethron

For starters, as I've laid out further up, the Payne Stewart situation was vastly different from 9/11 - and it still took the USAF nearly 90 minutes to catch up with it. On 9/11, there were no 767 flying around for 2 hours.
AA11: Hijacked 8:13 AM, crashed 8:46 AM. 33 minutes from hijack to crash.
UAL175: Hijacked 8:42 AM (at the earliest), crashed 9:03 AM. 21 minutes from hijack to crash.
AA77: Hijacked 8:50 AM (at the earliest), crashed 9:37 AM. 47 minutes from hijack to crash.
UAL93: Hijacked 9:28 AM, crashed 10:03 AM. 35 minutes from hijack to crash.

Second, the 9/9 excercise has one vital difference compared to 9/11: The hijacked plane was coming from outside the US (and presumably it followed the pattern of the 1993 Lufthansa hijack), which enabled the USAF to catch the flight in the ADIZ and follow it from there.

Originally posted by aethron
reply to post by roboe

 

For starters, there's no evidence that Washington DC area is guarded by surface to air missiles.

Though I would'nt expect evidence of them, I *would expect SAM's be there somewhere, just as a commonsense security measure for protecting the top federal politicians and beaurocrats, (including the military top brass), who live and work there.

It's almost unthinkable that the nation's capital would not be strongly protected, but apparently bin Laden guessed it was'nt; and astonishingly, he turned out to be right.

Gee, I guess you havent been paying attention to the thread. It has been pointed out that aircraft have been stolen and even crashed into the WHITE HOUSE. What people like you do not get, is that in the US we have always had this belief that our best defenses...are the Atlantic and the Pacific. In other words, we are going to know LONG before you get here that you are a "bad guy". We NEVER realistically prepared to defend ourselves against what we saw on 9/11. Sure, occasionally we ran exercises, however, we never took steps to be able to defend against it, it costs a lot of money to be able to keep up that type of alert. In addition, MOST Air National Guard outfits, at the time, worked four ten hour days.....the first day of the week was normally TUESDAY and that was normally the day where the first flights were not until the afternoon.

reply to post by dereks

It depends on which facts you want to use. Do you want to use the fact that an executive order was signed by George W Bush taking the reaction response away from Norad and giving it to Rumsfeld and Cheney? Or do you want to use the fact that Rudolph Giuiliani had an emergency terrorist drill in place in NYC on 911? Or maybe you want to use the fact that Rumsfeld and Cheney also had an emergency terrorist drill in place at the Pentagon on 911? That drill had a standown of all Norad response other than the drill they had specified which was an attack by unknown aircraft in Canada.

Can you supply any evidence that Norad was operating at the same level it had been before Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Giulliani?

Originally posted by WATCHER.1
an executive order was signed by George W Bush taking the reaction response away from Norad and giving it to Rumsfeld and Cheney?

Care to back up that claim with some facts? I would NOT just visit a conspiracy site to get my "facts" from either!