The Truth Movement is in Danger

I believe there was more to 9/11 then what we were told, and im all for finding out about it.....

But the movement from that is in danger, every time people come in with these claims:

1. There were no planes
2. The planes were holograms (right cause so many New Yorkers are that stupid)
3. There were no people on the planes.
4. The planes couldnt have crashed into the towers....

These claims hurt the movement, conspiracy theory is great and it works to keep people in check.....but far out theories like those above make everyone in the Truth movement seem like Tinfoil Hat wearing, overweight people in their grandmothers basement, eating cheetohs in their underwear......

Just being honest......

With claims like the above, people REFUSE to listen to logic or even common sense, and it does the movement NO justice

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
I believe there was more to 9/11 then what we were told, and im all for finding out about it.....

But the movement from that is in danger, every time people come in with these claims:

1. There were no planes
2. The planes were holograms (right cause so many New Yorkers are that stupid)
3. There were no people on the planes.
4. The planes couldnt have crashed into the towers....

These claims hurt the movement, conspiracy theory is great and it works to keep people in check.....but far out theories like those above make everyone in the Truth movement seem like Tinfoil Hat wearing, overweight people in their grandmothers basement, eating cheetohs in their underwear......

Just being honest......

With claims like the above, people REFUSE to listen to logic or even common sense, and it does the movement NO justice

Agreed !! what did you think of the above video that quite clearly shows a tubular object on the bottom of the plane that resembles an awac, also the sightings of the large white aircraft in the skies which could or could not be the control center......I know I sound crazy now but Ive seen the documentary on the NASA testing of a remote controlled Boeing so it is possible

reply to post by chupa-chups

Thanks for the welcome, chupa-chups. I lurked for about a week.

OK, you started thinking there was something fishy, and you think TPTB's plan worked because most people don't question what happened. Can I just ask - and this is something I'd be interested to find out from anyone in this thread who cares to answer - what you think of other conspiracies, e.g. JFK's assassination, German UFOs, etc? Is 9/11 the only one, do you think? If there are others, is there a general pattern behind who's responsible?

reply to post by nick112


The truth movement is in danger and that is natural after 9 years of failing to establish any evidence or obtaining a single confession.

Unlike you though, I think the movement being in danger is a positive thing because it has done a disservice to truth and a disservice to security by its hysterical claims. The absurd truther claims have actually diverted attention away from the sort of questions that should have been asked.

For example , instead of poring over grainy videos of WTC 7 collapsing for the umpteenth time why do truthers never ask how men like Mohammed Atta, Ziad Jarrah, Marwan al-Shehhi and Ramzi Binalshibh were able to gain entry to the US and move freely. All these men were under surveillance by German intelligence years before 9/11 when they were members of what is called the Hamburg Cell. All of them spent time in Afghanistan in 1999.

If I was a US citizen I would want to know how they got in and I would particularly like to know that steps had been taken to make sure it could't happen now. Do truthers worry about that ? Do they ever ? They are too busy saying Bush/Cheney did it, the NWO did it, Mossad did it, the Jews did it , Larry Silverstein did it etc etc etc .

Originally posted by Nonchalant
Put simply, the message put forward by 'truthers' forces people out of their comfort zone. Claims contrary to the 'official line' makes people uncomfortable. Consider the general population today. Most people are overweight and unfit. The reason is its easier to sit back and do nothing and eat pizza and fries, rather than watch your diet and attend the gym. Its less painful. Generally, people like to avoid 'discomfort', preferring to 'run with the herd', instead finding 'safety in numbers'. The same can be said for many that are asked to consider claims contrary to the OS. To accept or even seriously contemplate anything other than the official line means moving out of the comfort zone & removing the security blanket that is 'Big Brother'.

Except none of the claims brought forth by Truthers have enough evidence to back them up. People accept the Official Story because it is the most reasonable explanation. Truthers on the other hand, like to misrepresent their opponent's position (similar to that of Creationists) by claiming that the buildings fell in free fall, or that the buildings fell perfectly in their own footprint, or that there was molten steel, or that the fire needed to melt the steel in order for it to collapse, or that the operation was done by cavemen, or that Larry Silverstein admitted he blew up his building with explosives. When confronted with this, Truthers will either call you a disinfo agent, a troll, a sheeple, or how the Twin Towers were designed to withstand "Planes", or they will revert back to saying how the Official Story is full of holes, or how you're just encouraging people to not question the official story.

If Truthers were to drop all of these nonsense theories of controlled demolition, no planes, and thermite, as well as stop lying about the the official story, people would take them a lot more seriously.

reply to post by nick112


I agree. The truth was determined in 2005, and now it's time to do the right thing and take it to the people that have been proven to be involved. The government can't do it for us, so it's up to the people who know what and who and why to close this controversy down for good. Pros can be hired, and these criminals who were on the 9/11 team can't seem to stay away from public places. I don't have to explain everything, do I?

Originally posted by NorEaster
reply to post by nick112

 

I agree. The truth was determined in 2005, and now it's time to do the right thing and take it to the people that have been proven to be involved. The government can't do it for us, so it's up to the people who know what and who and why to close this controversy down for good. Pros can be hired, and these criminals who were on the 9/11 team can't seem to stay away from public places. I don't have to explain everything, do I?

So, you are advocating hiring criminals to murder people on the basis that truthers think they were involved in something but for which they have no evidence to put before a court.

Sounds like par for the course for truthers but perhaps leaves something to be desired as regards a civilised society.

Originally posted by technical difficulties
If Truthers were to drop all of these nonsense theories of controlled demolition, no planes, and thermite, as well as stop lying about the the official story, people would take them a lot more seriously.

edit on 21-9-2010 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)

That's pretty funny. Were you trying to be funny with this, or did the humor in it get past you?

Listen chief, there is so much evidence against you and the other accessories-after-the-fact-of-mass-murder that to follow along with your suggestion would - literally - be a criminal act. There is no statute of limitations in this country for murder, and this crime has moved off shore with investigations happening at the international level.

Don't forget that as you work to cover up the crimes of the people who killed those 3,000 people. I don't care if you're getting 5 bucks a post - or whatever the marketing firm that sends to your PayPal account pays you (I was offered 5 bucks a post to defend the OCT because I'm pretty good with this subject) - if and when this thing gets resolved, the records of who worked within the cover-up effort will be examined. You don't want an electronic trail leading to you. This isn't the JFK conspiracy parlor game. This is deadly serious stuff now.

Trust me. This has become an international issue. You might want to keep some distance from it. I can assure you that you don't know what's hovering over all of this right now.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by NorEaster
reply to post by nick112

 

I agree. The truth was determined in 2005, and now it's time to do the right thing and take it to the people that have been proven to be involved. The government can't do it for us, so it's up to the people who know what and who and why to close this controversy down for good. Pros can be hired, and these criminals who were on the 9/11 team can't seem to stay away from public places. I don't have to explain everything, do I?

So, you are advocating hiring criminals to murder people on the basis that truthers think they were involved in something but for which they have no evidence to put before a court.

Sounds like par for the course for truthers but perhaps leaves something to be desired as regards a civilised society.

It's either that or the rest of the planet gets involved. Seriously. You idots have no idea what you're defending.

I think what gives the truth movement its strength is the amount of documentation proving beyond a reasonable doubt to the average viewer that the government was not entirely honest in what they told the public following 9/11. This basically culminated in the destruction of the GOP base, and unfortunately the power shifted to Obama, not the hopeful Ron Paul could have been. But basically, the "lame stream media" will never admit what the truth movement believes, perhaps they will leak the truth, as they already have, but they will still adopt the pro-state mentality. Basically, you either believe or you don't, and more and more people are catching on to the lies. I for one will be a "truther" regardless of what other truthers are up to, in fact I really have no idea what other truthers are doing (other than debating 9/11 of course).

Originally posted by Ayjay
reply to post by chupa-chups

 

Thanks for the welcome, chupa-chups. I lurked for about a week.

OK, you started thinking there was something fishy, and you think TPTB's plan worked because most people don't question what happened. Can I just ask - and this is something I'd be interested to find out from anyone in this thread who cares to answer - what you think of other conspiracies, e.g. JFK's assassination, German UFOs, etc? Is 9/11 the only one, do you think? If there are others, is there a general pattern behind who's responsible?

AYJAY you'll find some top notch threads on many varied topics if you can get past the garbage, I myself am most interested in Aliens-Ufo's, cryptozoology and (of course) 911.....I spend less time in the other forums as I'm getting abit tired of reading the same thing all the time......try the search tool if your looking for something in particular.

The one thing our gov is good at is "discredit warfare" and this is ability lets them hold secrites unoffical for many years even decades.

Just think of this, one day you wake up and an alien is at your bed. He has chocen you to get the info out and enlighten the world. This is primarly a geeks wet dream cept this is the largest stage for our governments "discredit warfare ". Instantly you know it will not matter how many pictures you get, no matter how much audio you get this will never hit offical true status that the world accepts. This is because our gov is so good at "discredit warfare" that we have been brainwashed and conditioned to accept the gov OS as the OS and not spoon feed trash.

This is the same with the truth movement.

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by technical difficulties
If Truthers were to drop all of these nonsense theories of controlled demolition, no planes, and thermite, as well as stop lying about the the official story, people would take them a lot more seriously.

edit on 21-9-2010 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)

That's pretty funny. Were you trying to be funny with this, or did the humor in it get past you?

Listen chief, there is so much evidence against you and the other accessories-after-the-fact-of-mass-murder that to follow along with your suggestion would - literally - be a criminal act.

Then why don't Truthers show this evidence (Assuming you're not referring to youtube videos that have been debunked countless times)? Are they afraid the government will kill them? If that was the case, then why didn't they kill Gage, Avery, or Jones? Or is it buried underneath the crackpot theories of Controlled Demolition, No Planes, and Nanothermite?

Don't forget that as you work to cover up the crimes of the people who killed those 3,000 people. I don't care if you're getting 5 bucks a post

It would make more a lot more sense to call the people making your movement look like a joke that (aka the people believing in CD, No Planes, etc.). Sure, you'll look crazy but not as crazy as calling someone a disinfo agent just because they disagree with you.

Originally posted by technical difficulties
It would make more a lot more sense to call the people making your movement look like a joke that (aka the people believing in CD, No Planes, etc.). Sure, you'll look crazy but not as crazy as calling someone a disinfo agent just because they disagree with you.

The post above basically hits the nail on the head pertaining to what direction I believe the truth movement is heading in. Even though I'm sure technicaldifficulties and I are at odds with what we believe pertaining to 9/11, he does make a good point.

I'm always hesitant to use the term "disinfo agent" because I believe that it's grossly overused. However, I have no question in my mind that they do exist, and that some of them are probably lurking around right here on ATS.

I agree with technicaldifficulties in the sense that, if there are as many disinfo agents on the web as some say there are, a good majority of them probably aren't the ones arguing in support of the OS. Yes, I'm sure they're out there; the ones who focus on debunking "truthers" claims and doing whatever they can to patch up the holes in the OS.

But I tend to believe that more of these disinfo agents hide under the guise of being a part of the truth movement. In this case, I think the term "discredit agents" would be more appropriate.

From the very beginning, the government and MSM were painting those who simply questioned the OS as radical loonies. It didn't work. The movement only grew stronger. So, judging from the way our government has already dealt with this, what do you think the next logical step would be? Wouldn't it make sense to focus on making the movement look as crazy and "out there" as they possibly could? To cover up the legitimate concerns with a bunch of radical theories that are so outlandish that they discredit anything involved with denying the OS?

Dr. Judy Wood has been getting a lot of attention lately here on ATS and on other conspiracy forums. Yet, all she offers is a very radical take on what happened on 9/11 (and yes, I've spent several hours pouring over her website and looking at the "evidence"). As made obvious on the number of Dr. Wood-related threads here on ATS, her theories are dividing the movement and detracting us from what our first goal should be: to have our questions addressed.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

I'll end this post with the Wikipedia definition for the term divide and conquer:

In politics and sociology, divide and rule (derived from Latin divide et impera) (also known as divide and conquer) is a combination of political, military and economic strategy of gaining and maintaining power by breaking up larger concentrations of power into chunks that individually have less power than the one implementing the strategy. In reality, it often refers to a strategy where small power groups are prevented from linking up and becoming more powerful, since it is difficult to break up existing power structures.

Source

reply to post by nick112

Whilst I agree with your post that the term "truther" seems more of a curse thesedays I disagree that the movement is taking a step backward. If anything I believe it's winning ground - I'm new to the subject so for a lay person to suddenly question the events the alternate ideas must be penetrating layers of mainstream it hasn't before. Without seeming judgemental I think it's relatively easy to see who on these forums stick to sound science and rational evaluation of the known facts and those who are simply choosing to keep on highlighting the more extreme conspiracies. I have always known something wasn't right about the building collapses - call it a gut feeling, evaluating forums like these awaken thought processes that were buried for many years.

I'm happy to be called a truther despite the stigma and I think you'll find that more people are stepping forward to raise a hand for a proper investigation into an event many people have imprinted in their subconscious for a very long time.

Nice post - struck a cord with me.

Originally posted by nick112

I'm always hesitant to use the term "disinfo agent" because I believe that it's grossly overused. However, I have no question in my mind that they do exist, and that some of them are probably lurking around right here on ATS.

Speaking of disinformation agents, let me pose a thought experiment:

Put yourself for a moment into the shoes of a foreign intelligence service with an interest in weakening the USA. 9/11 comes along. You watch the broadcasts and see the opportunity to implement some active measures, a way of changing public perception of the incident so that the domestic American community becomes divided and distrustful of its leadership. What form do you think those active measures might take?

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Let's concentrate on the steel beam that was vaporised by the falling of a WTC tower. That's a fact that cannot be explained by the "pancake dream"!!! Steel...then....gas......pancake theory.......NO!

Originally posted by nick112

The truth movement needs to focus on what is simply undeniable; there are questions that need answers. If we don't, and instead put our time and energy into what we think happened, we may never know the facts.

Your movement has spent 9 years denying any answers to questions that refute, or don't conform to, the stated claim that "9/11 was an inside job." You've been ruled by a premise - never questioned - that "there are questions that need answers" and that the so-called "official story" of what happened on 9/11 "could not have happened."

The simple fact of the matter is that you will not allow yourselves to consider that you could have been entirely wrong all along. You will only allow yourselves to go down one path; you cannot bring yourselves to question your route, to admit to yourselves that all the evidence shows you should have gone down the other path. You don't trust any evidence, independent or from the "government." How could you if you start with the premise that is the foundation of your movement?

It's been 9 years. Are you able to admit to yourselves that you may have been wrong all those years? That your entire premise was faulty to begin with?

I don't think so. I think it is too hard for diehards to allow that to enter their consciousness.

Originally posted by JonU2
Let's concentrate on the steel beam that was vaporised by the falling of a WTC tower. That's a fact that cannot be explained by the "pancake dream"!!! Steel...then....gas......pancake theory.......NO!

Except that it never actually happened as you claim, it simply fell. Why do you claim it was vaporised?

reply to post by jthomas

It is similar to survivor's guilt. Since justice was not obtained through war, many people are looking to point fingers at someone specifically. What they don't realize is that their movement was started by activists. As a result of finding fault in one war (Iraq), they are trying to project their anger onto the first war (Afghanistan). If Bush didn't push obsessively to connect both wars, the 9/11 movement would not have a leg to stand upon. Even though they are connected under the banner 'War on Terror", both wars were started for distinctively two different reasons. People in the 9/11 Truther movement cannot make the distinction. Why? They bought into Bush's cover story for why we invaded Iraq.

We invaded Iraq because Saddam was an ongoing anomaly. Instead of focusing on the real war (Afghanistan), Bush tried to take advantage of his approval ratings. So, he twisted both wars together. One 'real war on terror' (Afghanistan) was connected to a personal war of revenge (Iraq).

CNN: Bush calls Saddam 'the guy who tried to kill my dad'

Afghanistan War = Real war on terror.

Iraq War = Reopening of an older conflict. Even though this was a justifiable war, I think Bush should have allowed Saddam to make the first move. Give him a chance to foul up, so that the lines were clearly marked.

If the 9/11 truth movement is falling apart, it is because more and more people are seeing the differences.