Wellesley, Massachusetts Public School Students Learn to Pray to Allah

reply to post by bluemirage5


I was not promoting any kind of religion, BlarneyStone requested that I back up my claims and that is the reason for that post.

How exactly these muslims stirred up trouble is beyond me? Inviting non-muslims into their place of worship, inviting (not forcing/proletysing whatever you want to call it) them to join in with prayer. Surely that is more of an Olive Branch than any of the westerners have offered?

I think religion should be banned from all children until there old enough to marry that way they are old enough to make up there own minds.

Kids are a blank book and they know nothing of god or the dogma that goes with any orginised religion so they are unable to form any oppions on such a dramatic effect on life and how others will treat you later on.

Also lets face it bringing up a child with religion is a garunteed way to teach them intollarance, ignorance, and even hate for those who are not of the same religion. I know the same could be siad of anything be it culture, ect but really religion is the single biggest excuse for killing on huge scales in this world.

reply to post by Truth_Hz


Maybe the students where not pressured into it by adults, but 11 year old boys, sure can pressure each other into things.

From the Supreme Court decision I listed above:

The District’s argument also minimizes the immense social pressure, or truly genuine desire, felt by many students to be involved in the extracurricular event that is American high school football. Id., at 593. The Constitution demands that schools not force on students the difficult choice between whether to attend these games or to risk facing a personally offensive religious ritual.

Source

This was a school sponsored event to learn about Islam. A line was crossed (according to US law) when the students where asked to participate in prayer. You are correct that such participation was voluntary, but social pressure might have drove some students into participating in the prayer.

As for the boy/girl separation, it only occurred because they were going to ask the boys to pray. At no point were the students separated until it was time to pray. And if you look at the video, the boys that did not participate are sitting with the girls.

It seems to me if the goal of this trip was only for education, it would have have been enough that the students observed the prayer, with an explanation on why women are not allowed to pray with the men. That would have truly been educational.

reply to post by Nammu

I've got a feeling if they were taken to a Buddhist
shrine and gave homage to Buddha no one would bat an eyelid.

I've seen parents express concern over the incidental buddhist meditation and bowing ceremony that traditionally preceeds karate classes. The concern was generally from christian parents who didn't want their children participating in non-christian religious practices. Even with no connection to islam, and long before 9-11, forehead-on-floor bowing seems to be something many christians find uncomfortable.

Ok, I think we're getting more of the story. This posted about 33 minutes ago in their local newspaper.

www.topix.com...
Mass. Schools Apologize For Student Prayer During Mosque Field Trip



whfs.cbslocal.com...

The field trip, which occurred last May, was videotaped by a parent chaperone and also shows a female instructor falsely telling students that “at the time of the prophet Muhammad, women were allowed to express their opinions and vote,” while in the United States, that right wasn’t granted until 100 years ago.

The Roxbury-based Islamic Society of Boston was founded by Abdurahman Alamoudi, who is currently serving a 23-year prison sentence after pleading guilty in 2004 to participating in a Libyan plot to assassinate Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah.

reply to post by LAinhabitant


The agenda I see is the religious agenda trying to creep into publically funded schools. It is awful and than you for providing other examples of this plague upon our schools.

reply to post by Truth_Hz


Religion and diversity are two totally different concepts.

Originally posted by Truth_Hz
reply to post by LAinhabitant

 

If it was a prayer ceremony then it would have been performed in Arabic and the kids would not have understood what was being said...

If it wasn't a prayer ceremony then the video is lying.

edit on 17-9-2010 by Truth_Hz because: cos i can

I did not understand what was being sang/prayed. But I understood what the nice white non arabic looking red head was spoon feeding the children prior to the prayer service, and I imagine the kids may have been reflecting on her words as the prayers went on.

I always thought it disrespectful for non believers to participate in sacred rituals.

My friends could attend mass with me but were not required to kneel stand etc, nor were they required (discouraged/forbidden mro like it) to partake of eucharist.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by sweetliberty

 

This must NOT happen in any shape or form. If I heard my kid was going to visit an Islamic school or mosque....not only will they not go but I would take them out of that school permanently!!!

I respect that and I hope others can too IMO, it's OK if children aren't as culturally exposed as others want them to be. The rudiments of love thy neighbor, I hope.... is taught to our children, even behind closed doors.
Thanks for posting.
sl

reply to post by sweetliberty


There is also an article on Boston.com

Praying by pupils at mosque decried - Wellesley chief calls it a mistake; group releases field trip footage

Superintendent Bella Wong said the mosque visit took place as part of the sixth-grade social studies course, “Enduring Beliefs in the World Today,’’ which includes lessons on Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity, and Islam. As part of the class, pupils also visit a synagogue, attend a gospel musical performance, and meet with Hindu religious representatives, she said.

Also in the article, a statement from a ACLU director:

Carol Rose, executive director of the ACLU of Massachusetts, said her organization will investigate what happened with the Wellesley schoolchildren.

“If, as the video produced by this organization purports to show, public school children were indeed asked to take part in or observe a prayer service at a mosque, it would be deeply problematic, as would any invitation to public school children to participate in a prayer service at any church, temple, or other religious house of worship,’’ Rose said in a statement last night.

I would like to say again, I do not see anything wrong with the students observing the prayer, just the fact they were asked to participate.

Edit to add: Thank you Sweetliberty for starting this thread. I think it brings an important topic to the surface. The USA is such a melting pot of people & histories that cultural understanding is a must inorder to create tolerance & respect for each other. And with that respect comes ones right to choose their religion, or lack there of. We have strived hard in this country to make religion a personal matter, not one crammed down our throats by schools or the government.

reply to post by Truth_Hz


Here in Australia we have whats called Scripture Classes (Anglican, Catholic, Judaism, Islam, Ba'hai, etc); they run from Year 1 through to Year 9. Those who do not attend their own Scripture Class go in to another class where they can play board games or complete homework. This system works well.

In saying that, I'm against any of my kids doing a school excursion to a mosque or a church or be taught other religions that is not of their own however in HSC they do have Culture and Religion as a class in years 11 and 12 where they learn the fundamentals of ancient and modern religions & cultures but this does not take them on an excursion during prayer times; they're quite careful to make sure this does not happen.

In our temple we ocasionally have "get togethers" with other communities in a hall or in proper meeting places but not inside their place of prayer. It's been quite successful for years.

children are indoctinated and forced to abide by a christian calendar.

religious connotations and holy days (holidays) are part of societal institutions which permiate and saturate all aspects of life, and are forced upon youth as a system in which acknowledgment is a mandatory expectation (laws), which is also a form of prayer and reverence towards a god.

minutes after my birth my penis was made smaller due to religious intolerances, and their effort to aim men (amen).

i'm not sticking up for the practice of forcing kids to participate in a faith that ... oh, wait... i do pay taxes ... i guess i do participate in a system that enforces religious obligations onto children and infants. nevermind. i would hate to appear to be too overtly hypocritical.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by Truth_Hz

 

Religion and diversity are two totally different concepts.

I refer you back to your previous post.. it appears you do not agree with either..

It disgusts me that these school districts are so ready to embrace diversity that they allow the male kids to participate in the actual rituals.

reply to post by OneisOne


You are bringing great information to this thread and I thank you for that
Earlier this morning when I phoned the middle school, they transferred me to the voice mail of Superintendent Bella Wong, lol, I thought they said her name was Long.
I did leave her a message and I hope she calls me back, there are still a few questions I would like to ask that the articles haven't answered. I'm also waiting on a call from the middle school my son attened a few years back. I would like to see if they have ever seen the need to take students on field trips to places of worship.
When all possible information is gathered, I will post the links you provided along with any others into the thread once we have a larger picture of this.

Thanks again for adding the information
sl

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I did not understand what was being sang/prayed. But I understood what the nice white non arabic looking red head was spoon feeding the children prior to the prayer service, and I imagine the kids may have been reflecting on her words as the prayers went on.

That was called education... they were learning...

I always thought it disrespectful for non believers to participate in sacred rituals.

My friends could attend mass with me but were not required to kneel stand etc, nor were they required (discouraged/forbidden mro like it) to partake of eucharist.

Neither were these kids required to participate nor were they forced not too, the majority of them didn't choose to.. there were 4? boys who decided to take part.. oh the shame..

Originally posted by Truth_Hz

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I did not understand what was being sang/prayed. But I understood what the nice white non arabic looking red head was spoon feeding the children prior to the prayer service, and I imagine the kids may have been reflecting on her words as the prayers went on.

That was called education... they were learning...

I always thought it disrespectful for non believers to participate in sacred rituals.

My friends could attend mass with me but were not required to kneel stand etc, nor were they required (discouraged/forbidden mro like it) to partake of eucharist.

Neither were these kids required to participate nor were they forced not too, the majority of them didn't choose to.. there were 4? boys who decided to take part.. oh the shame..

The shame is that sixth graders are being taught anything about any religion in a public school. The greater shame is that while four boys....chose....to participate in this religious ritual, NONE of the females even had a chance....

reply to post by hotbakedtater


That is because the religion that they were there to learn about states that they were not aloud to.. it's about adhering to the beliefs of the religious institute that they were visiting.

As you stated in your previous post your friends were discouraged or forbidden in partaking in Eucharist.

One rule for one and one rule for another?

reply to post by SmokeandShadow

I was an assistant teacher in the US for a year. I thought it was pretty backwards that US kids were NOT allowed to learn about the world's religions as British kids were - because some folks took advantage of the principle of separating church and state. It is mainly fundamentalist Christians that took advantage of this legal principle and it was done the following way: by applying a literal ban on all and any religious activity in any state-sponsored
school, they hoped to keep their childishm backwards religion intact.

No one else bothered to make a problem of this - atheists, Jews etc.

In fact, few years later Macbeth was banned in Texan public schools - because fundamentalist Christian kids should not be "exposed" - that was their word - to any mentioning of witchcraft.

Well, if this is not censorship by a bigoted group, then what is?
The Muslim religion, I repeat on every forum here, is no better and no worse than others.

I was struck by this sentence: "How was this allowed to happen"? and by the serious tone the narrator used to read this aloud.

Imagine this: Someone gives a report on TV that The President went to observe a Jewish holiday. And then someone would say the same sentence: "How was this allowed to happen?"
American Jewry would be outraged and justifiably so.

Lucky that I am not a Moslem - my patience would be wearing thin these days by the sheer amount of bigotry allowed in this country.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

you have to say that everyday. or its considered insubordination.

at least these kids have an option to NOT to pray to (your) god

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

children are indoctinated and forced to abide by a christian calendar.

I beg to differ.
Christmas can be a jolly fat guy and/or the birth of Christ. There is outside influence among their peers too, or the option of not having children or the option of moving into another country .

religious connotations and holy days (holidays) are part of societal institutions which permiate and saturate all aspects of life, and are forced upon youth as a system in which acknowledgment is a mandatory expectation (laws), which is also a form of prayer and reverence towards a god.

Easter can be all about a cute fuzzy wabbit with loads of chocolate goodies and a fun time in getting messy from lots of different food colorings while creating the looking egg ever, lol.
Forced? Parents force their children to eat funny smelling veggies, usually prayer and reverence time is a form of respect, imo. They are introduced, taught, not forced. If my son was interested in another religion, I would not prohibit him from it. I would take the time to see what caught his interest in it, I would not force him to attend where he showed dissatisfaction, where he was unhappy. I hope many others don't force their children onto a religion either.
Maybe God (add your personal word there)... it's not a truth, if we view all people of a religion as we preceive that religion to be.

minutes after my birth my penis was made smaller due to religious intolerances, and their effort to aim men (amen).

Thank you for posting
sl