Churches read from Quran in face of proposed Quran burning

Churches read from Quran in face of proposed Quran burning

religion.blogs.cnn.com

Rev. Larry Reimer’s says there's a simple message at the core of his faith: people have more in common than they have in conflict.

It's one reason he chose to have a passage from the Quran read at the United Church of Gainesville, part of the United Church of Christ, on Sunday.

And he wasn’t alone.

More than 20 religious leaders from Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim backgrounds around Gainesville had the same Quran passage read - along with Christian and Hebrew scriptures– at their congregations over the weekend. Local synagogues made it part of their Rosh Hashanah cel

(visit the link for the full news article)

Buried and all but obscured by the rancor and controversy of Terry Jones’s International Burn a Quran Day media event, is this hopeful story that demonstrates good things too, can come from bad things.

Over 20 different congregations of all faiths in Gainesville Florida where the cancelled Quran burning that sparked an international outrage and domestic controversy were to take place, each read select passages from the Quran, Bible and Torah over the weekend in their services.

This little reported event was planned out almost immediately in response to Terry Jones’s plan to use his Church to burn Qurans.

Rabbis, Imams, Pastors and Priests in Gainesville all got together and decided which passages from each book would be central and acceptable and meaningful to all three sects of Jews, Christians and Muslims.

Rabbis read passages from the Christian Bible and Quran, Imams read passages from the Bible and Torah, and Priests, Pastors and Reverends read passages from the Quran and Torah.

Each congregation is reported to have received these positively, and indeed the congregants of each house of worship felt that they had to do something to show their own open minded respect and tolerance of other sects so they wouldn’t be stigmatized by Jones’s actions.

While Jones failed to burn Qurans in Gainesville as he planned, he did succeed in getting many people who had never heard or read a passage from one to do so for the first time.

That’s sadly not something all of us can celebrate, but I would wager my bottom dollar those that are celebrating it are a lot happier than those that aren’t!


religion.blogs.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

It's good that they did this! It shows a different side to all the shouting and arguing.

But we wouldn't hear about it in the msm. They'd much prefer us tearing chunks out of each other and being different rather than realising our commonality and togetherness.

Originally posted by Kram09
It's good that they did this! It shows a different side to all the shouting and arguing.

But we wouldn't hear about it in the msm. They'd much prefer us tearing chunks out of each other and being different rather than realising our commonality and togetherness.

That is so very true, and what the religious leaders found out when they all got together to discuss how to respond to Jone's actions, is they all had some very fundamental things they all shared as believers in the same God.

That of course there always is a common ground if you really want to seek it out and build on it.

All the religious leaders involved have in fact stated this will not be the last time they include common passages that are relevant from the other sect's books in their sermons.

All it takes for evil to succeed is a few good men to do nothing in the face of it. The good men and women of these churches, synagouges and mosques, did do something in the face of it, something good!

Where Jones utterly failed in his quest these men and women succeeded in theirs!

Thanks for posting.

If I got a Bible, Koran, and Torah and burnt all three at once, no one would care.

It would never reach the news no matter how much I promoted it on the Net, and no one would care in the least.

Why?

Because it's not divisive enough nor driven by a propaganda machine.

I would be treating them all far too equally, and that would not cause anyone to freak out. It just would not fit into their paradigm of divide and conquer.

However, I think the Atheist community would probably applaud me. But then again they would probably ignore it too, because it's not offensive enough for anyone to really care.

My point is this whole issue is driven by the MSM for purposes of divisiveness. I could burn anything, US flags, the US Constitution, anything really. And no one would care at all....

Why? Because I am a no-body.

Just my opinion. I won't be burning anything in real life though, because I cannot afford to burn good money like that over stupid reasonings. It's just a hypothetical point I was trying to make.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Honestly I am an agnostic and have never seen a fitting place for religion in my life as it's traditionally practiced by any religion.

Yet until I can myself come up with a provable answer of how we got here, the nature of life, and the universe, and what all it entails, I do respect some people are going to appreciate finding solace in simple accepting all these things are divinely created by a figure head a God head they have come to subscribe to and define.

Those of us who aren't religious see the political manipulations and abuse of those who are religious sometimes more clearly but we shouldn't be so biased as to not see the many good political manipulations that come out of religion, like all these sects coming together to do something positive, and uplifting.

Religions and their institutions do on a local level at least, provide charity and assistance and comfort to many, that the government itself and their neighbors or family often have no mechanism for or can't.

Like everything there is both good and bad involved.

While Jones is hardly a hero in my book, it wasn't just Christians and Jews being exposed to the Quran for the first time in these services, but Muslims being exposed to Christian Bibles and Torahs, and Jews also being exposed to Christian Bibles (Jones's sect) and the Quran.

So though it obviously wasn't his intention or plan, more people who aren't Christian were actually exposed to Christianity through these 20 houses of worship action, which I imagine is something that Jones as a Christian could appreciate.

I think a lot of us would like to throw the Baby out with the bath water sometimes, but there is good and bad in everything, it's just a matter of perspective and focus, and what you are looking for and why.

We do know at least most of us, that the media would prefer us to focus on the bad, but CNN did put this story out there for those who dare to focus on the good.

Thanks for posting.

Here is my main point of all of this. Why this is just propaganda.

What makes Muslims mad at us?

Would it be burning their silly book??

Or rather, are they pissed at us because of THIS.







Yeah it's WRONG to burn their holy book but its TOTALLY OK to BOMB THEIR HOMES IN A POPULATED CITY????

Get real folks. They are pissed at us because we are massacring them in their own cities. Civilians being blown to bits.

They don't care how many books we burn. They just want us to stop bombing the hell out of their neighbors. Duh!

This whole issue is MAD PROPAGANDA. And it's distracting EVERYONE.

This isn't a religious war per se, it's a war for power and wealth! Obviously. But as long as you think it's religious in nature you will be buying into the propaganda just fine.

reply to post by muzzleflash


To them it is not a "SILLY BOOK" its as important to them as any other Religious text is to any faith.

Yes they are pissed they are being bombed left right and center, but the end of the madness has to start somewhere, propaganda or not, these people saw through the madness and fought back in a way they could.

That is what matters most, people are seeing through he fog and trying to clear it for others to be able to see clearly, or at leas see some hope instead of the constant hatred.

Good for them is what I say.

There is some hope after all.

This is the right way to do things.

My dad and I were actually discussing this on saturday. Rather than burn the Quaran, why don't we read it so we can maybe see where those people are coming from. Rather than push those people away, we should try to gain a better understanding of what they believe and maybe try to compare it to our personal beliefs. Though I do not consider myself part of any religion, I think I will try to read the Quaran and other religious text so in an attempt to understand my fellow man.

I have a lot of respect for the Pastors and Rabbis in Florida that did this, they are the ones who are truly trying to make the world a better and more peaceful place.

reply to post by azzllin


There is a certain mindset that feels that the Constitution or American values or both were somehow subverted or deminished by Jones succumbing to the concern of the vast majority of people here in America and abroad, regarding the potential repercussions of staging such an event.

Yet I honestly feel the opposite because the same freedom of speech, religion and expression that allowed Jones to speak about, and promote and contemplate such an act, was also used by countless millions of Americans in denouncing the act.

They weren't just Muslim-Americans or Democrats or Republicans, or Politicians or Generals but rather the majority of America in general really didn't see the need, or the benefit in doing something patently offensive to select others, just because you have the freedom to do it.

I think that a lot of people who were dissapointed that Jones did not go through with it, focused in on just parts of the message people around the nation and world were trying to convey with their own right to free speech.

Yes while Generals fighting the wars that require partnership with local Muslim Governments were afraid how that hurt their efforts, and Politicians in Washington trying to form meaningful political, commerce, and strategic alliances with Muslims were concerned it might hurt those efforts, that wasn't what the majority of Americans were worried about.

They were worried about being seen as stereotypical bigots who lack sensitivity and respect for other cultures and religions besides the Christianity that has long dominated the religious landscape in America.

American's seem to think nothing of American-Jews having organizations like the anti-Defamation League and Jewish Defense league to guard against misundertandings of their own religion, and to make sure because they are religious minority they are not persecuted, yet it greatly worries too many Americans that the Muslim minority within the nation should have the same concerns or rights to address them too.

So I think what most Americans were doing, and I know I was, was denouncing dual standards that seem to be designed to favor one group over another, and then reacting when that group who prefers to be favored over the other, took objection to not being favored over the other.

So they tended to view this as a bad thing, which they misconstrued as people better favoring Islam and Muslim concerns than their own as isolationists, war mongerers, bigots or xenophobes.

Many of them don't understand that it wasn't about favoring Islam and Muslims, but respecting ourselves enough not to be cast as unreasonable and hateful bigots who can't tolerate others being different and believing in different things.

So at the end of the day I think our constitution did exactly what it is meant to do, and that's allow everyone to voice their concerns, and through that some kind of perception of what the majority is, in regards to how Americans think and feel.

Yes some people do end up bowing to the will of the majority, in fact that's what a lot of our government is about, and Jones certainly did in the end bow to the will of the majority, yet no one forced him to. My own belief is he realized that while your free speech is protected, that is the government will not order you to be silent, and will not arrest you for speaking, you still have to take responsibility for what you are saying and expressing.

Lots of different people, the majority, saw it as a bad idea, for a lot of different reasons, but I think it's a false conclusion to say that the majority were afraid of the possible repercussions, but instead were more afraid about what it would say about them as human beings, to go out of their way to insult the people of an entire religion, to attempt to criminalize them all, and stereotype them all.

I don't think that kind of reasonableness is a sign of cowardess or abdication but common sense, decency and wisdom.

We live in a nation where all people are presumed equal, where all people are free to practice any religion or none at all, and where all people are aloud to voice and express their opinion, and all people are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

I think American values won in the end, though some will disagree, I believe personally their reasons for disagreeing are circumspect and suspect.

Thanks.

I disagree with what this church did
it seems to say God of the bible is God of muslims, while this is true the muslims don't worship Him so these so called christians are betraying their faith.

God of the bible IS Love

god of koran obviously teaches kill and that = hate

Jews don't believe in Jesus but at least they have the right God.

They are Not the same and anyone saying otherwize is like I said Betraying their faith misleading people.
Shame on them.

it was wrong of that church that started the koran burning but that dude had to have been a planted seed.
the position of the church should be to recognize the set up and stand firm when people want to kill them for someone elses wrongdoings.
this church did exactly what the nwo wants the world to do. to interfaith and be lukewarm.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I think it's a bit of both. Did you see that video where the helicopter blew the hell out of a load of civilians and then shot up the truck which came to give medical aid to the survivors? That sort of stuff does more to recruit for Al Queda (if it even exists) than any book burning. But the Quran is their holy book, so they have a right to be mad about that too.

Apache massacre

Scandalous.

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
I disagree with what this church did
it seems to say God of the bible is God of muslims, while this is true the muslims don't worship Him so these so called christians are betraying their faith.

God of the bible IS Love

god of koran obviously teaches kill and that = hate

Jews don't believe in Jesus but at least they have the right God.

They are Not the same and anyone saying otherwize is like I said Betraying their faith misleading people.
Shame on them.

The descendants of tens of millions murdered and displace First Nations peoples like the American Indians and the Pacific Islanders which were pushed out and subjugated all with the justification of not being Christian would strongly disagree that the COMMON God that all three sects of Abraham worship is a god of love or peace.

While subscribers and readers of such inflammatory sites of Jihad Watch dot Com refuse to believe all three sects of Abraham, Muslim, Jews and Christians worship the same God who does believe they do, are the theologians and religious scholars of all three religions.

When Christians colonize violently a part of the world they see it all as good and to God’s glory even though it involved murdering or driving off the people originally born to the land.

One need only read the original Ten Commandments to know that this is a God who favors war, favors slavery, and promises to drive the enemies of those who obey him, before them.

All three religions are full of a lot of conflicting stances, that all center on a God who claims to be jealous and vengeful.

Once again it becomes a matter of focus and perspective, what passages you want to focus on and what passages you want to ignore, what acts by which religions you want to focus on, say like the Spanish Inquisition the tortured and killed Jews for failing to convert to Roman Catholicism, or whether you want to look at the Jesuit Order and how they have long funded and worked with revolutionaries in the third world who would ensure a state that would tolerate Catholicism.

Or whether you want to look at the Muslim reactions to the Holy Crusades and European Christian attempts to retake for Rome the area, Rome had originally pushed the Jews out of, but then as the Empire crumbled Islam began to flourish in.

Yes in the counter attack Islam made inroads into Europe violently, just as Christianity was trying to make inroads into the Middle East violently.

People of all religions and almost all nations (save Costa Rica) have been known to kill for God, Country and or King.

War is a part of our planet and any who imagines Christians only go to war in response to something are in fact just in denial.

You yourself are in fact prepared to wage or tolerate or justify war against Islam because they aren’t Christians.

If you actually thought your arguments through, and were honest with yourself, you would see how absurd they really are.

Thanks for posting.

Well done Gainesville, where some folk wished to see division and hate, the locals brought understanding and togetherness, there just might be some hope for this world yet.
Its a shame that the msm chose to highlight the antics of the phelps clan but not altogether surprising.

Thanks for bringing this to the forums Protoplasmic Traveller.

Originally posted by joewalker
Well done Gainesville, where some folk wished to see division and hate, the locals brought understanding and togetherness, there just might be some hope for this world yet.
Its a shame that the msm chose to highlight the antics of the phelps clan but not altogether surprising.

Thanks for bringing this to the forums Protoplasmic Traveller.

You are welcome, I think ATS as well as the world, could use something positive and hopeful long about now.

Thanks for sharing in that and responding. The world really is ours to choose what to make of it.

You know, that's a great thing for those churchmen to have done. By their thoughtfulness they're lending the rest of us a little bit of hope.

For that I'm grateful.

S&F.

reply to post by AmericanDaughter


Just exactly what I was thinking and I throwing you a star for your post.

While the religion in America were initially founded upon persecution in home countries, Muslims don't have any reason to come here and spread their religion since they aren't being persecuted in their home countries.

The churches that would dare to compare the Koran or Quran, whatever you call it, to the Holy Bible is an abomination. The Koran clearly teaches its followers that Jesus Christ WAS NOT the Son of God and therefore its author must surely be influenced by the Devil since it's the Devils job to try and decieve man.

AmericanDaughter, you hit the nail on the head. Bulls Eye.

I'm not saying there aren't any good Muslims. Surely these Muslims have never been taught the truths of our Saviour becuase of their religions intolerance to Christianity. If they could humble themselves to the Lord Jesus Christ and accept him as our Saviour then the Holy Ghost would confirm the truth in their hearts.

I sincerely believe that we're living in the age of false prophets and false teachers. These false prophets and false teachers have shown their face by comparing something Holy (the Holy Bible), the word of Our Father in Heaven, to the word of Satan (the Koran or Quran, whatever it is).

When the time comes and God tosses all disbelievers into the fiery pits of Hell, it'll be then when the disbelievers will say, "It was easier to do the right thing when I was alive than try to get into Heaven now. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
You know, that's a great thing for those churchmen to have done. By their thoughtfulness they're lending the rest of us a little bit of hope.

For that I'm grateful.

S&F.

As am I, and I would like to see that this is one communities attempt to see it wasn't divided, even though there certainly was an effort to try.

For a lot of people weighing in on this debate over great distances of not just geography but idealogy, and religion that seperate them, it becomes a lot easier, in that vacum to take a beligerent or a divisive stance, because you don't have to live with or amongst the people you are insulting or alienating.

Yet at the ground zero of the controversy, Gainesville Florida, I think what this shows is the people who live there that all stood to be equally effected if divided realized they would prefer unity and mutual respect, rather than rancor, fear and hate.

What's hopeful is this is one incident where the Microcosim, behaved a lot differently than the Macrocosim.

There is no telling how Ronald Regan the great communicator would have responded to this controversy if he were still alive today, yet he once famously gave a speech to the U.N. General Assembly where he expressed his own reservations that the only thing that might unite humanity together would be an alien invasion from another planet.

Perhaps what has really united the people of Florida is their need to band together in the struggle against the Reptilian Horde!

Fla. deputies handcuff 7-foot gator near school

The Associated Press
OLDSMAR, Fla. -- Deputies in Florida had to handcuff a rather unusual suspect - a 7-foot-long alligator. A crossing guard at a Tampa-area school spotted the gator lounging near an elementary school Monday morning around the time children would be walking to school.

As she and three deputies waited for a trapper to arrive, the alligator started walking toward the children. Three deputies roped the gator's neck and tail as the animal rolled and thrashed. Its tail broke off chunks of stucco from a nearby wall.



Read more: www.miamiherald.com...

Three deputies banded together to capture the Reptillian beast who no doubt would have shown no preference for the religion of his meal!

Just like three religions in Gainesville banded together to make sure none would suffer the vagaries of discimination.