The biggest conspiracy in religion is: To make YOU believe Satan, Evil, the Devil is real.

Hi ATS

The following sentence is often mentioned by people who are devoted followers of Christianity: ( Well... That is my experience. )

"The devil's greatest accomplishment is to make you believe he does not exist"

Funny actually the title I gave this thread claims the opposite...

A Dutch forum I'm enjoying a lot because most of the time they provide absolute mind provoking columns, blogs and ideas which is called : Anarchiel.com ( I'll post a link in the bottom for my fellow Dutchman and women ) I read a reply from one of their members I felt worth sharing. I will provide a translation later on ( By my own hand and very limited understanding of the English language, I must add. )

DISCLAIMER:
I am not an atheist and I do not intend to step on anyones toes. If you do feel offended, feel free to ask if you understand what I was trying to say. The possibility exist to get offended by what I am about to share. I will never change my mind because you say so. However... I have changed my mind before, but only after I got convinced in a civil and respectful manner. Just saying...

Here goes...

The biggest lie Christianity came up with was, To convince you Evil/Satan is real.

I've had a beef with the churge for a long time now. I've seen and felt ever since I was just a small boy somethings just didn't make sense. As I grew older ( after puberty as I lived a self centered illusion ) I started to educate myself and start searching my place in life. Without a clear goal it was and still is an open search.

Learning new things or find what I forgot about, opened up more doors with more questions then answers behind them. Along with my experience I've given myself a place in the grand scheme of things...
This lead me to this point in time...

I learned Jesus was a Jew. Jews are following the Judaic faith. I was shocked when I found they do not know evil as Christians do and they do not know an entity that embodies evil. I've learned they an entity that was ordered by God to seduce us. To test us.

Why does Christianity teaches something else ? Don't answer that. Just think about it...

Personally I do not deny a source or creator what you can name God. I know good and evil exist. No doubt about that, it is religion that bothers me.Why ? Because of my personal experiences.

To me evil and the sins that are taught by Christianity are part of a duality. Two sides of the same coin.

I'm again and again surprised how accurate or easily evolution explains stuff in our everyday life. I'm not talking about the dinosaurs right now... I'm pointing to small changes, talents and behavior I see in ourselves.
Changes and gifts that are responsible for us ending up here and how we behave as a species.

Take for example sins :
Gluttony is considered evil. A 100.000 years ago, it could be the edge that caused you to survive while others starved to death during a famine.

Greed the cause of almost all our problems today, would give you a huge advantage on less greedy individuals. As it helps you to have the means to survive where others do not. By saving you will last longer and you can trade what you have for things you need. Big advantage IMO

Narcissism considered a bad thing today, but it will help you to survive. When you keep telling people you are the man, eventually people will treat you as such.

Anger can scare of an opponent or could make you handle what caused the emotion. Ultimately end the cause one way or another. Also can it summon fear in others what gives you control.

I could go on for hours.

The next part is from the reply a talked about:

Evil the devil, Satan... What is it exactly ?

Answer :
A creation of the brain that makes it possible to blame unwanted evil behavior,( by ones own hand ) to an external force. A cheap way to walk away from your responsibilities.

What about the good ?

Answer:
A creation of the brain that makes it possible to take credit for so called good behavior. A cheap way for a bigger self esteem.

Conclusion:
Good and evil. An egoistical brain fart.

Personal opinion about the above reply :
I do not fully agree, but I very much understand the process that lead to this as a conclusion.

My last reason for my claim is this: What is evil to one could be heaven for the other.

Ive got of course a lot more thoughts , ideas, reasons and arguments about my stance with religion.
I'm happy to discuss them, but for now, I think I gave more then enough to think about.

I say:
Evil as taught to us from a Christian view is easily explained with science and the theory of evolution.
The churge uses evil to gain control by direct fear with eternal damnation and indirect by causing hate towards the infidel.
A tool to control the masses,. by using our own spirituality and gullibility against us.

What say you ?

Kind regards

~ Sinter

PS
Make love not war.
Do not do to another what you do not like others to do to you.
Turn the other cheek, but don't let anyone walk over you.
Forgive
Don't judge, but don't let them walk all over you.

Anarchiel.com

Evil is the name of an entity. That entity exist within our minds, and our actions. Evil may not have a face, it may not speak, it may only exist as a way of experience, but it still exists no matter what you want to call it, or how you want to picture it.

Personally, i believe that evil exist as a form of perspective. Evil can only exists as i am being evil and allowing myself to take on the evil perspective. So in a manner of speaking you become the devil when you take on the devil perspective.

All this is obvious...when your parents tell you to be good and not lie, or be good and not eat all the cookies, it is because that would be good/better for them, that you not do these things...For you to pursue your self-interest is good for you, when others pursue their self-interest and it cuts into yours, then you call them evil...

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Hi SK,

I don't know. I've always suspected all these empodied concepts of good and evil, which these deities are. To me they seem to be more like symbolic representations of human nature. Satan seems in some light to represent the mind and intelligence, which sometimes are capable of trick us in bad behaviour. It is a trickster-figure. Bad is same as antisocial and against the cultural beliefs regarding the instance. Lucifer is commonly refered as lightbringer, same as Prometheus. Both tricksters. In book of Job, for instance, Satan convinces god to play bet with Jobs loyalty. Prometheus learned humans to craft, use the fire and so on, but same time he fooled his fellow gods.

I think it may just be fatal misunderstanding to conceive satan as a physical force or even entity. Satan may be a representation of psychological characteristic in human - the one that tricks us to use our knowledge and intelligence against cultural norms.

-v

reply to post by onequestion


Yeah...

I thought the external text and this:

I know good and evil exist. No doubt about that, it is religion that bothers me.Why ? Because of my personal experiences.

Kind of covered what you just said.

I do agree with you.

Evil and Good are different for everyone. It really does depend on the person. I don't think there is anything wrong with being egotistical and selfish. I think the worst thing you could do would be to create emotion or to behave in a way that you, yourself do not enjoy. If people knew themselves, and were not afraid of themselves and what it is they truly desire, then perhaps we could see the mood on this rock and in this hell of a universe change to a positive light. And by positive, I mean, a happy mood. People are unhappy when they do not please themselves, and when you have billions of unhappy people in essentially one central location, it is bound to create a furthering of unhappiness.

I think the Christian religion actually strays from the teaching of Jesus Christ. Jesus was more concerned about people sinning against themselves, hurting themselves because they were afraid of themselves. He told that woman to "go and sin no more", not because the act itself was sinful, but because by her committing to it, it was killing her spirit, (that's just what I believe, IMO). Accepting another's idea of "Good" and "Evil" could be dangerous, because it may not truly match what you, yourself envision to be Good for you, and Evil/Bad for you.

Everyone is different, and everyone should find themselves, discover what it is they truly want, and pursue it. If The Prime Creator of this Universe made you a jerk, then be a jerk if that excites you. Set your soul free and fear no judgement. Nobody has the right to impose their beliefs and fashion themselves your Gods unless you desire this and enjoy it.

We are all FREE to believe and conduct ourselves as we see fit.

reply to post by nine-eyed-eel


I would not say it is that simple actually.

I've got an example:

My dad remarried with a woman who had 2 children of her own. They were walking a a path full of crime and violent behavior.
My dad decided I needed to go live with my mother again. ( I lived with my dad and my little brother stayed with my mom.)
At the time he couldn't have committed a bigger evil in my eyes.
When I got older I realized his decision was a blessing in disguise for it saved me from the life my new brothers lived. He made a tough decision as he had to gave me up for my future well being .

I think the shades of gray are more numerous then what black and white can ever have to offer.

reply to post by v01i0


That could be the case.

I definitely think that both God and Satan display human characteristics.

If you are a Star Trek fan, you must now the arch enemy species the Borg.

It's funny cause our society today has more similarities with the Borg then we do with the federation.

If Aliens did intervene in our creation/evolution then there were simply gods and each with their own personality.

reply to post by leira7


I think the same thing. Jesus taught us the opposite of what we do.



You didn't happen to read Levay 's book ?

Originally posted by nine-eyed-eel
All this is obvious...when your parents tell you to be good and not lie, or be good and not eat all the cookies, it is because that would be good/better for them, that you not do these things...For you to pursue your self-interest is good for you, when others pursue their self-interest and it cuts into yours, then you call them evil...

So if your personal self interest was that you wanted something that I had you could steal it and be OK with it?

/Q

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


The Devil is little more than a scapegoat, something to blame when things go wrong for reasons you don't understand or to blame rather than take responsibility for your actions.

They'll call anything Satanic, typically anything that catches the attention of young people (and also any religion they don't like). Rock and Roll music, D&D, video games, Pokemon, hip-hop, etc.

I remember when I started doubting Christianity I had people tell me I was being attacked by the Devil and that was the source of the doubt in a sad attempt to make me toss out my own thought processes and give myself over to mindless faith.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I experienced the same thing.

I do not want to suggest evil does not exist tho. Only not in the way that I leaned from religion.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas

Is it just me, or do you frequently tell everybody that things aren't that simple ?

Whatever you enjoy...

reply to post by nine-eyed-eel


Well... That could be me

Weird thing is that I personally take stuff as simple as they get

Don't take my word for anything I say tho... Who am I to tell anyone what to do.
I'm just giving my opinion

This Satan/devil/evil conspiracy is causing a lot of confusion here on earth lately and everyone's theories seems plausible and such but what if the REAL situation is hidden. Like for instance, Jesus Christ is the photon/light we recieve into our pineal glands when we meditate in darkness and we are to shut off our thoughts in the left during the meditation so we arrive to heaven.

The left hemisphere of the brain is where we use numbers, logic, science and etc.=The tree of knowledge of good and evil. And the right hemisphere of the brain is where we use imagination, music, creativity and etc.=the garden of eden. The bible is all about spirituality; the book of genesis aka genetics, get it?

Jesus was probably never real (Or could be) and religion/TPTB throughout history set him up to be real so that in the near future they get what they've always wanted: Either a worldwide Holocaust or Heaven on Earth.

Also, ever researched about laminin? Or took some time going into this website: www.hiddenmeanings.com... ? I suggest you guys to check it out because maybe this is another trick from God, that the creator created satan/devil from our egos to test us on our OWN (not religious) faith.

No offense, but this is nothing new. A typical argument I heard a million times before that, in the end, is nothing more than someone's wild and constipated opinion about a controversial subject that has a million wild, constipated opinions.

reply to post by adkchamp


I believe there is a lot more then we can see.

You are talking about a build in test ?

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


yes, ever think where your conciousness was before birth, before knowing or seeing life on earth at first sight? IN darkness, right ?(well some have reincarnated and lived past lives)...so when you meditate in darkness and experience light in the pineal gland, you're saved from the material world because YOU returned where you came from.

reply to post by frozenspark


Well yes... I'm glad you understand.

There are however countless of others that have never discussed or even thought about this subject, and as long as those people follow religions that have a direct effect on my life. By keeping stores closed on Sunday or creating hate and dividing us. I feel the need to share my opinion on this matter. Cause I'm no hypocrite. I think that the world would be a better place when there were more people that shared some of my ideas.

But... What if I'm wrong ? I think I should at least make it possible to be told I am.

I know that I will probably think something else 10 years from now. But I can only change my mind for the better when I'm thinking and evaluating my thoughts continuously.

If I don't I'll probably be just as gullible as I'm right now.

No offense taken.

Thank you for your thoughts

I agree with my friend Onequestion, but maybe in a little different manner. I think it is obvious to most (atleast I hope so) that 'evil' is a state of mind, created by the mind, and can be perceived differently by different people. However, it is an illusion, just as 'good' is, just as 'happiness' is, just as 'fear' is, and all other emotions because they root from the 'self' and 'ego', the greatest illusion of all. When an enlightened one reaches enlightenment they are said to transcend these illusions and achieve a pure understanding of oneness, where they perceive no such things as 'good or evil' or as 'happy or sad', but rather perceive them as a part of the same with maybe misguided mind states which have fallen from the natural/pure path and must be brought back. This is difficult for an un-enlightened person, such as myself, to fully grasp but I can vaguely see how it is true.

I feel as if the Bible was wrote by un-enlightened persons, and does not adequately represent Jesus' teachings. I cannot picture Jesus' turning away or rejecting a person whom others considered 'evil', but rather I see him offering his advice and guidance to help him find the true path again. So in relation to that, would he not walk hand and hand with 'Satan' or the 'Devil' to try and convert him back? And does not Christianity seperate the two (Jesus and Satan) as polar opposites, good and evil? And would Christians not be appalled if they were to learn that Jesus himself accepted 'Satan' or the 'Devil' as his own brother? Therefore I think Christianity and its followers are misguided in that regard. If Jesus was truly enlightened I can not picture him telling his disciples to kill or destroy anyone, even 'Satan'. Maybe I am wrong, but I am fairly confident that neither the ancient 'Crusaders' nor the modern 'Crusaders' (US/British Governments) are in fact doing what they claim(ed) to be doing, which is 'Gods Work'.