Beware Of The ‘League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen’. The Con Artists!

Originally posted by jokei
In the spirit of the OP, although I'm idly amused by the bickering...

No one has mentioned the biggest all time Hoaxster/Fraudster/Con Artist of them all, Ladies and Gentlemen I present you:

L Ron Hubbard.

I beg to differ greatly with your assessment. Carl Sagan would get the prize award for best con.

You need do no more than have a passing knowledge of his life AND read his bio by William Poundstone to understand how and why he switched sides early in his career
.
So by conventional "con-man" reckoning, Sagan was the greatest. Paradoxically, that is also to say that he played an extremely important role in advancing humanity (modern countries) toward recognizing that we are not alone.

So, in general, every politician, government official, doctor, and cop can lie and deceive and be doing a great job for the overall good of humanity. 'Course, then there are the bad ones. Sagan had a role to play and he did it superbly.

My general view on all of this is that these folks get the attention and interest from a certain segment of the population. Yes, these folks won't account for much in terms of being important except as possibly being members of a distructive mob at some point in the future if they weren't drawn into thinking--if wrongly--about ETs, etc., before the main event. (For example, Ecke followers will be expecting the ETs when they finally "land," but they will be relieved to discover that the Reptilians won't be part of the committee or hungry for human flesh if there are.)

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by boredsilly
Stanton Friedman should not be on that list. I've always found him to be an excellent researcher.

There is a few on this list that should not be on here.

I agree. In my small dealings with Friedman, I've found him to be sincere and dedicated.

I believe he made a blunder when he chose to accept as legitimate the UFO "packing" manual. When he gave me his preliminary views on it, I said I distrusted it and stupidly suggested that he could have produced such a work over-night himself by reworking a standard packing manual. In no way was I inferring he had done the deed, but that anybody could have done it. But he took it personal, cut the correspondance went on with the project.

reply to post by OrionHunterX


hi there, you may want to add wayne herschel (author of the hidden records) , and judy faltskog aka judith helena van greunen aka james van greunen (responsible for various ufo/alien signal hoaxes) to your list of charlatans.

we have covered them in this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

thanks

rich

Sounds like one could make a book blasting the UFO researchers.
But we would not want to do that per chance they might not lie to us.
But sound like some are willing to take the chance and not give them any
cred.

There was some passage somewhere that said the CIA hired a lot of
writers to make up bogus events or stories surrounding UFOs and
perhaps continue the Project Blue Book excuses for not having the
aircraft.

The UFO Hunters presented a good case in Rex Heflin but as
usual the continual interjection of alien is always herd.
Witness for the Hudson Valley and Belgium sightings had good
representation for their stories.

However Walton may not have been able to get past censors with
his base discovery of a flat ship that may be the Heflin type.

So we know some unknown ships of various shapes exist in low
level flight sightings.

Originally posted by OrionHunterX- Richard Dolan, author of UFO documentation books putting out the propaganda that the National Security community has been "concerned" about the UFO presence for decades.

While Dolan never met a conspiracy theory he didn't like, it is a documented fact that the UFO issue went straight to the top, at least during the Truman years.

reply to post by OrionHunterX


Starred and Flagged !

I agree with you in the sense that members should "beware" as to not take everything for granted. Not to take what these individuals claim as absolute truth. To read, search and draw personal conclusions.

May I add to your list ? Extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence...

- Robert Dean
- Jose Escamilla
- Sorcha Faal
- Alison Kruse
- Jaime Maussan
- Clifford Stone

Originally posted by RICH-ENGLAND
reply to post by OrionHunterX

 

hi there, you may want to add wayne herschel (author of the hidden records) , and judy faltskog aka judith helena van greunen aka james van greunen (responsible for various ufo/alien signal hoaxes) to your list of charlatans.

we have covered them in this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

thanks

rich

I agree that these two 'new guys on the block' should be added.
I personally thought that most of these researchers... (how that word is
easily used)... were in it for an easy pay-check, but I wa astounded by
the dark verve that they show, when cornered to produce evidence of
their claims.

They must have formed a union!!

Originally posted by OrionHunterX
- "Dan Burisch", a hoaxster who pretends to have worked at Area 51.

Hmmm well Dan Burisch led me to Los Alamos documents on Project Looking Glass... the real deal...

So he may not have all his marbles in a row.. BUT he has given me more info that I can verify than YOU have,,

But I must say this will be a GREAT thread...

I will be able to see all the debunkers ID themselves

Stanton Friedman is on that list?

Richard Dolan ?

Surely not. If anyone are respectable researchers its those 2,

Originally posted by Aliensun
Carl Sagan would get the prize award for best con.

I agree

And he wanted to bomb the Moon with a nuke to see if there was any 'organic matter' in the resulting cloud... "Well Sam there WAS life down there, dang it..."

May 14, 2000 ... Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon posted: 11:16 am ET 14 May 2000 ... the team researching the hypothetical explosion was a young Carl Sagan, ...

SPACE.com -- Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon
www.space.com...

He also made that plaque on Pioneer sending a message to the stars showing that white blond people inhabited the Earth




Yup Public Enemy #1

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
Do you have any proof that these are all con-artists?

He doesn't need proof..

His personal opinion is all he needs..

After all Skeptics and debunkers don't have to follow the same rules of evidence (well at least in their minds)

They are perfectly comfortable using slander as a tool and not having to back up anything they say, while demanding proof of others...

But hey this is a great thread for me to make up my ignore list

So, assuming that this list is true, I ask:

Who are the True "good" guys then?

Which people we can ALL agree that they're not crazy, hoaxter or a disinfo agent?

IS there anyone like this at all?

The anti-Carl Sagan attitudes being shown by certain members in this tread are pretty pathetic (and desperate if you ask me). Dr. Sagan did more to advance the scientific fields Ufologists claim to represent more than anyone else in the past 50 years. Anyone who truly wants to speculate scientifically on the idea of life in the Universe owes Dr. Sagan an enormous debt. His efforts to promote skeptical thinking and interest in the Universe were nothing short of incredible and he is one of the great American thinkers of the 20th century.

100 years from now when all the Ufology frauds have been forgotten people will still be watching Cosmos and reading Pale Blue Dot. The view of the Cosmos that he promoted was far more inspiring, humane and interesting than all of the faked UFO mythology being promoted by the frauds, creeps and liars in this mostly discredited field of "study".

"The size and age of the Cosmos are beyond ordinary human understanding. Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. In a cosmic perspective, most human concerns seem insignificant, even petty. And yet our species is young and curious and brave and shows much promise. In the last few millennia we have made the most astonishing and unexpected discoveries about the Cosmos and our place within it, explorations that are exhilarating to consider. They remind us that humans have evolved to wonder, that understanding is a joy, that knowledge is prerequisite to survival. I believe our future depends powerfully on how well we understand this Cosmos in which we float like a mote of dust in the morning sky."
-Cosmos

Originally posted by boredsilly
Stanton Friedman should not be on that list. I've always found him to be an excellent researcher.

I agree very much so, I have a great amount of respect for Stanton . Not all the people on the list are con men some delusional and some are the real deal imo. This thread is based on ones opinion when it is all said and done. As one demands proof from Clifford Stone and BoB Dean who i support i ask they provide proof in turn they are "hoaxers" and con artists. Those 2 men believe what they say and are not out to milk the UFO community for cash and attention. Either you believe them or you dont. If i tell my UFO story and have no proof it happened so does that make me a hoaxer? Of course not.

Lets not jump to conclusions and call people hoaxers based on assumption alone. This is no different than the loons that call us disinfo agents for not buying the dog and pony show they try to pass off as true data.

Note i said BoB as in bring you're own beer because you got to have a few to take in his story. I like the guy also Stone and im a good judge of character. They seem genuine and very likable fellas. Dan Burish i don't know but like Zaiger said there is some truth to what he says of that is the case.

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

Wow, No Jamie on the list...

A list without Jamie is no list at all

Not sure I agree on Stanton though.

I agree Stanton is legit Maussan is an epic hoaxer along with his bandito Jose Escamilla with Alison Kruse and the WIFA - world infared sky alliance hoax group. I can provide a long list of youtube hoaxers alike as well upon request.

I will leave you with this, the Orb Queen whom has since gone in to hiding claiming the "Orbs" have left and get this... are in Italy now

Originally posted by Turiddu
The anti-Carl Sagan attitudes being shown by certain members in this tread are pretty pathetic (and desperate if you ask me). Dr. Sagan did more to advance the scientific fields Ufologists claim to represent more than anyone else in the past 50 years. Anyone who truly wants to speculate scientifically on the idea of life in the Universe owes Dr. Sagan an enormous debt.

So Carl Sagan can speculate on wild Alien life forms on Jupiter and its okay... but anyone else speculates on "Lifeforms on Jupiter" and they are 'nut cases and charlatans'?

Sinkers... round floating shiny orbs...

Floating jellyfish, living balloons, herds of em kilometers across they look a lot like the 'critters' seen on Earth and in space on NASA videos...

Funny how that works... You sir are a hypocrite :~P

So you are actually telling me that you just debunked Sitchin, his lifetime research, and his gala of books written about a history written by people over 6000 years ago in a language you can't even dream of starting to understand, a language only 200 people on this planet can read?

Could you give me even ONE SOLID reason why you would doubt his research?

Have you even read his books yourself?

Nobody even TRIED to debunk him because nobody CAN

By putting him on the list i do think you show a certain lack of knowledge about the persons in question, As i saw someone else mention earlier, this list is compiled of people who YOU don't like, and in the example of Icke, i've read his books also, and think it's a load of horse maneur, but he's definately not a conman in the way you want to paint him to be, he truly believes what he writes and to be honest, even while not believing him, who am i to doubt him?

I can't PROVE otherwise now can i?

Can you?

Richard Theilmann, the Pickerings, the aviary...

So Carl Sagan can speculate on wild Alien life forms on Jupiter and its okay... but anyone else speculates on "Lifeforms on Jupiter" and they are 'nut cases and charlatans'?

Key word there, "speculate". Dr. Sagan speculated on the existence of such life forms as a form of scientific exercise. He never came out and claimed these creatures existed. Please stop trying to make connections between unrelated issues of science and "belief". Scientists speculate all the time, "believers" make bold claims with no evidence and hold them to be the truth.

If Dr. Sagan was a "Ufologist" he would have made a dozen Youtube videos with titles like "Floating aliens on Jupiter!!1 NASA cover up revealed!! Part 1 of 12".

This thread is useful food for thought.

Plenty of people do good research but the bad apples get the press on ATS.

Originally posted by Romekje
So you are actually telling me that you just debunked Sitchin, his lifetime research, and his gala of books written about a history written by people over 6000 years ago in a language you can't even dream of starting to understand, a language only 200 people on this planet can read?

Nobody even TRIED to debunk him because nobody CAN

Well I think your info is a little out of date

When Sitchin wrote his books, only specialists could read the Sumerian language, but now anyone can check his translations- Sumerian Lexicon (PDF)

Also you may wish to check the site of Dr Michael Heiser. It seems to me he does try and pretty much succeeds in debunking Sitchin