I watched 911:state of emergency on C4 in the uk and what exactly did Bush do that day?

I've just watched 911 state of emergency on channel 4 in the Uk and found it full of fascinating stories frm people who were their thday and the decisions they made and one thing sprang to mind after I considered what I had just seen: there were interviews with rumsfield and a vid of him helping someone outside the pentagon (cue crappy video of a blur crahing into the pentagon and witness explaining it was a plane), condeleeza rice explaining what she was doing, more interviews with people who made difficult decisions and then... Bush reading a story in school, fair enough he's working, then a quote from C. Rice telling us that Bush wanted to come back to the White house, (several times), then Rice explaining how she was involved in the situation of what to do about a plane that did not reply to requests and her seeking permission from the president to shoot it down which apparently he gave. What else did he do?
everyone else ran around like crazy people at million miles an hour, we know what the Mayor of New york was doing but Bush? Also did anyone else watch the program and notice how he was rocking when he was told of what had happened in the class room? Rocking isn't exactly a sign of mental stability is it?
And I have to add this in if you did watch the programme did they deliberately use the video of the trade centre collapsing showing the side where you can clearly see mini explosions blowing out through the windows way, way below the collapsing floors of the tower? They are even in line with each other I did believe at one point that it was the force of air been blown out by the weight of the building falling in on itself but after watching that it looks just too neat.
I'd like the 911 subject put to bed but these new documentaries just help to fuel the fire. Finally how can that crash site of flight 93 ever be expected to convince people it's the crash site of a passenger plane? where's all the scattered debris of machine and parts, cases, clothes, chairs and if the fuel in the planes brought the towers down why isn't there a massive scorching of the ground and woodland at the crash site? same types of planes and fuel isn't it?

Please feel free to anihilate my post. Thanks.

If he had no idea, then he did the best he thought someone could to stay courageous and not panic.

If he had an idea, then he played dumb rather well, and didn't skip a beat.

I no longer care to choose which is more realistic.

I have watched Bush's reaction many times and my conclusion is that he was caught like a deer in headlights.

Not even Bush knew what was going to happen that day.

I think he knew something was going to happen. There was a pre-9/11 book that alleged one of the WTC Towers would be hit by a single airplane, and that many people high up already knew this was in the works. There are similar stories on record related by US intelligence agents who were working with Middle-Eastern operatives in the 1990s, ie a Pakistani ISI agent. They knew it was coming too. Even in the 1980's the Port Authority did a study and consulted many experts who told them planes were a threat to the towers, and during the 1990s after the '93 bombing their security company was even admittedly anticipating this possibility, though there was little they could do to prevent it.


When Bush was told a plane had hit the WTC, Bush still seemed calm and confident.

Now this is allegedly because he still thought it was just a terrible accident, as Bush himself would later claim while he also claimed he watched the 1st impact on live TV (which is impossible).

Actually I think Bush was already anticipating the 1st impact, as were many others, which was to be later realized to have been a terrorist attack. Well it didn't happen quite that way.

When Card came up and whispered into Bush's ear that a 2nd plane had hit the towers, that's when Bush's face turns white, he looks stunned, uneasy, and nervously gets up after sitting like this for a few minutes, shakes the teacher's hand in a very humble way as if it may be the last hand he ever shakes, and exits.

I think this was the moment when Bush realized he was duped and that even he is just a pawn, an expendable pawn, in a game that is totally out of his control. That is why his face turned white. He understood that there were no guarantees, even for him, and that he had no more idea what was happening than anyone else for a change. He understood that his foreknowledge of the 1st plane could come back to bite him hard if things played out the wrong way. And probably most of all he realized how massive and unprecedented this attack was going to actually be, to be such a blatant, in-your-face conspiracy. Risky business to say the least.

reply to post by bsbray11


You came to a conclusion based upon the look on Bush's face? You are joking right? I think that statement right there, would get you booted off any jury in a heartbeat. Sadly, it's very difficult to discern truth, just by someone's facial expression, regardless of what the TV shows tell us. Do people's body language speak volumes? Absolutely, but for the average person to come to a conclusion based upon the look on someone's face is foolish to say the least.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not saying that Bush new about it, though I'm not saying that he didn't either, however that is the very reason that we need an actual investigation, instead of people with clear and obvious conflicts of interests. I'm certainly not ready to conclude on anything, based upon their reaction. For all we know, he could have been "in on it" and still shocked at how it unfloded. What if it happened a day earlier than it was supposed to, wouldn't he have the same look on his face? Anything could have gave him that look. He also could have practiced this look for months before hand, getting it down perfect. He does have some of the best minds that money can buy working for him.

I'm just saying here that an initial reaction doesn't tell us much and if you ask any cop, most crooks can play the part to a "t". I certainly wouldn't come to any conclusoins with out hard, factual evidence.


--airspoon

reply to post by airspoon

You came to a conclusion based upon the look on Bush's face? You are joking right? I think that statement right there, would get you booted off any jury in a heartbeat. Sadly, it's very difficult to discern truth, just by someone's facial expression, regardless of what the TV shows tell us. Do people's body language speak volumes? Absolutely, but for the average person to come to a conclusion based upon the look on someone's face is foolish to say the least.

I hadn't noticed this before.

If Bush does indeed turn white, then it is a very real physiological response to a psychological one. The question is, was his reaction:

* OMG, we're under attack

or

* OMG, now it's done.



Only Bush really knows which.

Originally posted by airspoon
You came to a conclusion based upon the look on Bush's face? You are joking right? I think that statement right there, would get you booted off any jury in a heartbeat. Sadly, it's very difficult to discern truth, just by someone's facial expression, regardless of what the TV shows tell us. Do people's body language speak volumes? Absolutely, but for the average person to come to a conclusion based upon the look on someone's face is foolish to say the least.

Well then I must not be your average person?

You would be very surprised what I can tell about someone just by looking at them, or what many other people can read into others for that matter. Every twitch of any muscle in your face means something, whether you realize it or not. Most people apparently do not. Let alone larger muscle movements, the tone of your voice, the content of what you are saying, eye contact, all of that and more is like an open book to anyone who can read them.

Whether or not you believe I can read body language that effectively, it can be done. Darren Brown is a master of this. Watch his programs and he tells people their birthdays and what presents they received on certain birthdays and all kinds of bizarre "impossible" things just by reading their body language as he refines his line of questioning while gauging their reactions, in the eyes, in the facial muscles, breathing patterns, the sum total of the physical expression of what is going through the mind. Once he even pin-pointed something on a map without looking at it, and without being able to have any idea where it should be, just by looking into the eyes of a man who did know where it was. Think about that. And these videos and more are all on YouTube if you just search for "Darren Brown." This stuff is real psychology, and it really works and has basis in physiology/biology/etc.

When people lie to me in person, for example, unless they're pathological or I'm not paying attention, I can not only read it in them very quickly but they become aware that I'm intently gauging them and become nervous and defensive before I even offer to contradict anything they say. It's like applying a "pressure" of conscious awareness on them and soaking up every minute movement and detail they make and summing them to almost reconstruct their very thoughts that have produced these physical behaviors. We all understand body language subconsciously even if we have not started incorporating it into our conscious knowledge. That's what people vaguely call "vibes" when they are uncomfortable in a certain situation, etc., for good reason, but just can't tell you exactly what the reason is. They can't tell you what it is because they don't consciously interpret body language, but their subconscious is still reading it like a book anyway and sending signals to the conscious mind.

Now I am not saying I've offered scientific proof, you'll notice that. It is subjective evidence to me that I am sharing on a public discussion forum. Nonetheless I read people like this every day and when I look at Bush that morning, he was either truly shocked when he was told the 2nd plane hit, or else he is a damned good actor, and given other various demonstrations of his competence I find that very hard to believe. I also don't believe that he was shocked because he realized it was a terrorist attack. He was shocked because he realized he was not in charge and was almost as much in the dark about what was really happening as everyone else. He was caught like a deer in headlights and literally didn't know what was going to come next.

I'm certainly not ready to conclude on anything, based upon their reaction.

That's perfectly understandable, but I do want you to at least understand that it is possible to accurately read very specific things into people just by watching them. Like I said, a YouTube search for Darren Brown if you're not familiar with him might really open up your eyes to amazing demonstrations of this. I'm not saying I'm anywhere as good as Brown, but it doesn't take a whole lot to read the basic emotions like what we are seeing from Bush here.

For all we know, he could have been "in on it" and still shocked at how it unfloded.

That's basically what I'm saying. He knew something like this would happen, he at first thought it was going just as he understood it, but then when he was told that a 2nd plane had hit the towers, that's when he realized he was in uncharted territory.

He does have some of the best minds that money can buy working for him.

And imo they would have probably considered it easier and more foolproof just to lie to him and get a genuine reaction, than to count on him to be any good at faking it.

I'm just saying here that an initial reaction doesn't tell us much and if you ask any cop, most crooks can play the part to a "t".

Ah, many/most cops I've encountered are actually very good at reading body language and trusting "gut feelings" themselves. Next time you get pulled over notice how they approach you and prod you and watch you so intently. They are applying the same "pressure" on you I was talking about above. Not all of them are this intense but many of them are, and are very very efficient at picking out liars and inconsistent behavior, even without contradictory statements or other more blatant tip-offs.

Personally I cannot tell from the grainy videos I have found what his eyes, mouth, skin color does when he is told, however I do see that he looks a little lost to say the least.

I want to know, what would people expect him to act like in that situation, he is in a roomfull of children, and the nation is being attacked, should he have panicked, what? What reaction do you think would say, 'he knew' or 'he didn't know'?

reply to post by markygee


What struck me re-watching the events as they transpired was how fast the OBL story came out. It was as if they already knew who, what, where, when and how before it even happened. The explanation was already in the can.

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
If Bush does indeed turn white, then it is a very real physiological response to a psychological one.

Yes, that is the meat of the scientific basis for NLP and similar fields:

1) You create a thought in your mind, ie rapid electrical impulses.

2) These electrical events are tied to chemical events that trigger the experience of emotions. This can be looked at as a purely chemical/biological reaction: thought --> appropriate emotion.

For example: "Oh my God that ASS HAT JUST HIT MY CAR!!" ---> anger is automatically triggered, adrenaline starts flowing, certain parts of the brain are further activated, etc. etc.

3) The emotion linked with the thought causes specific modes of movement and behavior through the nervous system's control of muscles. If it helps you to visualize it, the "commands" sent through your nervous system to control muscles are being generated by the mind which is still under the influence of chemical emotions and the signals to other parts of your body are inherently imprinted by these. This is what gives rise to different body positions being associated with different emotions in the first place, and further than just figuring out the emotional context, the over-all context of the situation allows insight into what the person is actually thinking about the present circumstances. Because there are only so many logical frames of thought that will fit with a given emotion in a given social context.

4) The muscles, tissues, etc. can be externally observed and will be found to be in accordance with whatever is happening inside the mind and so-called emotional circuit of the body.



I was going to post a YouTube video showing Bush's reaction, but unfortunately all of them are too low of quality to see much of his face except a blur. I've seen it on TV though and it occurred to me that the color of his face changes when he's told that the 2nd plane has hit.

Besides that, watch the way he turns away. When Card first approaches, Bush's head is tilted towards Card's. As he starts listening, his head straightens in a quick movement to a blank stare straight ahead, and then away from Card, and actually he moves his whole body away from Card (repulsion at what he is saying) in a small movement... and then just stares ahead and off to the side opposite of Card as if deep in thought. Then seems to quickly return to the fact that he's in a classroom being filmed. At the same moment he automatically jerks his head back directly to the camera, an automatic move that came with the remembrance of this being filmed. He then comes back even more to his senses, pulls his head down from staring at the camera to stare at the floor briefly, trying to think of what he should do now, and then looks back up and stares straight ahead again. He then briefly takes on a sheepish demeanor in my estimate which is his realization that he is a jackass and has been duped. He sits silently looking around like this for a while. Then his face appears to me to turn very red, as if he is blushing from embarrassment.

All of this happens in a fairly rapid succession of events, and during this moment his body language in general is as if he has just been momentarily detached in shock, and then re-attached to his immediate surroundings in embarrassment. When he finally gets up and shakes the teacher's hand before leaving, he appears especially sincere and humble in his execution of this gesture, which I interpret as his way of compensating just being totally humiliated by his handlers and brought back "down to Earth." He sincerely had been embarrassed and humbled by what he was told.


Here is a video to watch and compare:



Like I said though, it doesn't compare to seeing it on TV.


Not saying this is proof of anything, this is just my personal commentary on what is happening here.

Seems I watched the same program that markygee watched but I saw it here in Australia and I couldnt help but think the program was made to further detail the OS but with the benefit of hindsight.

I have wondered the same thing as others have said on the tread about the look on Bushs face when told about the planes hitting the tower. I think it could seeen either way but my intrepreatation was that he was thinking 'well its done now, no going back now.

The question that strikes me is that the reason given for not getting Bush out of the class room was because they didnt want to frighten the kids. Why did they beleive the kids and the whole school for that matter were not going to be stuck by a plane? why were they so sure? Surely getting the president away from a school full of kids would be a high priority if as Condalisa Rice claims in the documentry, that they did not know where was safe and where was not safe. If this was the case why stay at the school?

cheers

Originally posted by space cadet
I want to know, what would people expect him to act like in that situation, he is in a roomfull of children, and the nation is being attacked, should he have panicked, what? What reaction do you think would say, 'he knew' or 'he didn't know'?

All I can say is that if I were president and everything happened honest-to-God the way they said it did, then...

1) I would have immediately felt a great sense of responsibility and especially urgency!!

2) I would NOT appear deep in thought. I would have gotten up and asked to be excused immediately, and left with staff.

3) I would immediately leave my present location, which had been previously announced in the media and would therefore be a security liability in this situation, as low-key and deceptively as possible.

4) I would immediately have been in contact with military authorities from a secure, hidden location.


The fact that SS didn't immediately make Bush leave has always been one of the biggest tip-offs to me personally that someone there knew something about what was happening, so much as to know Bush himself was in no danger. In a real terrorist attack it would be pure stupidity to assume this when your present location had already been published prior to you even arriving there.

The best part of the whole doc was seeing Card and Rice trying to convince everyone that W. was in anykind of danger at all his reaction was one of confusion to me if there is any doubts about the POTUS being nothing more then a figgure head watch this show and see Rice pretty much confrim it.

Originally posted by mike dangerously
The best part of the whole doc was seeing Card and Rice trying to convince everyone that W. was in anykind of danger at all his reaction was one of confusion to me if there is any doubts about the PTOUS being nothing more then a figgure head watch this show and see Rice pretty much confrim it.

edit on 033030p://1526 by mike dangerously because: (no reason given)

Which basically sums up my OP - what did he do? he did nothing, everyone below appeared to make the decisions.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by space cadet
I want to know, what would people expect him to act like in that situation, he is in a roomfull of children, and the nation is being attacked, should he have panicked, what? What reaction do you think would say, 'he knew' or 'he didn't know'?

All I can say is that if I were president and everything happened honest-to-God the way they said it did, then...

1) I would have immediately felt a great sense of responsibility and especially urgency!!

2) I would NOT appear deep in thought. I would have gotten up and asked to be excused immediately, and left with staff.

3) I would immediately leave my present location, which had been previously announced in the media and would therefore be a security liability in this situation, as low-key and deceptively as possible.

4) I would immediately have been in contact with military authorities from a secure, hidden location.


The fact that SS didn't immediately make Bush leave has always been one of the biggest tip-offs to me personally that someone there knew something about what was happening, so much as to know Bush himself was in no danger. In a real terrorist attack it would be pure stupidity to assume this when your present location had already been published prior to you even arriving there.

I'm just a simple person but this seems to me the most reasonable and sensible course of action.
If I had just been told the WTC had just been hit by a plane I would make my excuses and leave, maybe tell the kids I'd come back next week. Not just sit there. Bush's reaction is completely different from everyone in a responsible position below him. Nobody else sat there rocking, looking like they were completely unable to form a thought, a course of action, everyone else reacted, they did something, anything. Not sit there with a "it's done now" expression on their faces.
In my opinion of course.
C.Rice even rang Putin up to talk about escalating levels of security. Shouldn't a president ring another president?

reply to post by markygee
What do you,expect Marky? We had Cheney and the various high ranking officals running the country that day basicly the president's job was to comfort the nation and using Condi's words: "to make sure people knew that the world was not going to end."Sate of emergency's purpose was to revise and explain away Bush's inaction that day.

Originally posted by mike dangerously
reply to post by markygee

 

What do you,expect Marky? We had Cheney and the various high ranking officals running the country that day basicly the president's job was to comfort the nation and using Condi's words: "to make sure people knew that the world was not going to end."Sate of emergency's purpose was to revise and explain away Bush's inaction that day.

9 years later and I'm still learning and discovering, this 911 saga won't end I actually felt sorry for Bush (only a little) last night when I realised the enormity of what was happening and how little his real influence is. I guess the last time a president tried to influence anything was JFK and we know what happened there.

reply to post by markygee

I watched 911:state of emergency on C4 in the uk and what exactly did Bush do that day?

Well he started the day off right by going back to the third grade to finish up his education? I
mean the guy was try'in at least to do the right thing. To bad things turned ugly that day,
who knows how far he might have gone?

Spacecadet

I want to know, what would people expect him to act like in that situation, he is in a roomfull of children, and the nation is being attacked, should he have panicked, what? What reaction do you think would say, 'he knew' or 'he didn't know'?

I imagine anything but guilty would suffice.

What about Bush? It was known for several days that he would be at that elementary school. If the US were under attack he would be a possible target yet he stayed for another 15 minutes after hearing about the 2nd plane hitting the WTC. In doing so he possibly endangered the lives of all those children at the school.
NORMAL procedure would have dictated that the Secret Service whisked him away and boarded Air Force One immediately..But no, he stayed around for photos and finished reading My Pet Goat
From Florida AF1 flew to Barksdale AFB in Alabama then on to Offut AFB in Nebraska which, I believe is the nuclear warfare command center.
Why he didn't fly back to Washington or get on TV to address the nation immediately is beyond me. He disappeared for the day, perhaps in actual fear for his life. The real question is, WHO was he afraid of?
I'll never forget 9/11 as the day the President hid for his own safety instead of addressing the nation who desperately needed leadership on that day.
Just like his dad, Dubya is a wimp and proved it on 9/11.

"The question that strikes me is that the reason given for not getting Bush out of the class room was because they didnt want to frighten the kids."

I guess endangering the children's lives was a much better option than frightening them. Assuming, of course, that the children would be frightened to death by GWB standing up and saying he has some important business to attend to and excusing himself.

"The best part of the whole doc was seeing Card and Rice trying to convince everyone that W. was in anykind of danger at all his reaction was one of confusion to me if there is any doubts about the POTUS being nothing more then a figgure head watch this show and see Rice pretty much confrim it."

Basically, GWB was hung out to dry. No doubt, to intimidate him into following the insidious script which was to be played for the next seven years of his presidency. Maybe at the time he had some delusions of actually being in power and he needed to be set straight in his beliefs.

"Which basically sums up my OP - what did he do? he did nothing,"

Which is exactly what he did through his entire presidency...nothing.

"We had Cheney and the various high ranking officals running the country that day basicly the president's job was to comfort the nation and using Condi's words: "to make sure people knew that the world was not going to end."

Translation: Bush was an amateur who wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and could not be trusted to put on an act, therefore, he was left mostly in the dark about the events which were transpiring. He later confirmed that he could not be trusted by slipping up and stating that he viewed the first "plane" to impact with the WTC on television, which raises a question as to what type of secret "television" he was watching.

"And imo they would have probably considered it easier and more foolproof just to lie to him and get a genuine reaction, than to count on him to be any good at faking it."

Yep. They took the lesser of two evils and he still managed to raise suspicion by screwing up his comments. It goes to show, when you're dealing with an imbecile, you can never be sure as to how he will respond to a difficult situation. In summary, the decision by the planners of 9/11 to leave him out of the loop was a no-brainer.

"Why he didn't fly back to Washington or get on TV to address the nation immediately is beyond me. He disappeared for the day, perhaps in actual fear for his life. The real question is, WHO was he afraid of?"

The same people who had left him out of the loop and hung him out to dry.

"I'll never forget 9/11 as the day the President hid for his own safety instead of addressing the nation who desperately needed leadership on that day."

It was this blatant cowardice and lack of moral character which made it easy for him to destroy the country and turn his back on his fellow Americans for the remainder of his presidency.