The Flat Earth Myth

I've been meaning to throw something up about this for quite some time now, only been putting off due to laziness, but a recent post has motivated me to make it happen.

To frame where I'm coming from here's the post in which I refer:

I find it so funny that these "FLAT EARTHers" refuse to acknoledge the simple fact that Chemtrails are real. Even when the evidence is so plain to see, all one has to do to know Chemtrails exsist is to look up, couldn't be any easier than that. But they still think the Earth is Flat, and if you sail to far out Monsters will get you, and you will fall of the edge

I won't mention the thread or the poster but rest assured this kind of argument is quite common on ATS and usually written by those who err on the non-skeptical side of things, unsurprisingly (no offence).

The fact is, humans have believed the world to be spherical since at least the sixth century BC, the likes of Pythagoras, Plato and Aristotle all subscribed to this.

It is also the time that Hellenistic astronomy was created, placing the sun and not the earth at the centre of the known (at the time) universe.

From this point on, a spherical earth was the accepted norm.

Enter Washington Irving, an American historical fiction writer...

It was he who invented the indelible picture of the young Columbus, a "simple mariner," appearing before a dark crowd of benighted inquisitors and hooded theologians at a council of Salamanca, all of whom believed, according to Irving, that the earth was flat like a plate. Well, yes, there was a meeting at Salamanca in 1491, but Irving's version of it, to quote a distinguished modern historian of Columbus, was "pure moonshine. Washington Irving, scenting his opportunity for a picturesque and moving scene," created a fictitious account of this "nonexistent university council" and "let his imagination go completely...the whole story is misleading and mischievous nonsense."

But in reality, the issue in the 1490s was not the shape of the Earth, but its size, and the position of the east coast of Asia, as Irving in fact points out. Historical estimates from Ptolemy onwards placed the coast of Asia about 180° east of the Canary Islands. Columbus adopted an earlier (and rejected) distance of 225°, added 28° (based on Marco Polo's travels), and then placed Japan another 30° further east. Starting from Cape St. Vincent in Portugal, Columbus made Eurasia stretch 283° to the east, leaving the Atlantic as only 77° wide. Since he planned to leave from the Canaries (9° further west), his trip to Japan would only have to cover 68° of longitude.

So next time you see such an argument pop in a thread, please, shut that nonsense down quick smart, it just encourages the lack of critical thinking embraced by too many here.

Deny Ignorance.



Sources and further reading:

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.asa3.org...
www.bede.org.uk...

reply to post by Chadwickus


I've made similar comments in threads before and it's amazing the diversity of responses you get. Sometimes people thank me for providing them with information they didn't know, but I've also been called an idiot because everyone in 2nd grade was told that Columbus proved the world wasn't flat.

S+F

theflatearthsociety.org...


They seem to believe like others. I have never understood this belief and then why do all colleges, high school, or grade schools still teach this theory?

reply to post by dragnet53


Although I didn't take any history classes in college, I doubt it would be taught there. As for why it's taught in lower grades, it's probably just easier to learn it that way. Most history classes don't focus much on the Greeks, so Columbus and the Age of Exploration would be the first chance they would have to be told that there were people who once thought the world was flat. Plus, it makes it so Columbus doesn't seem like an idiot, despite the fact that many people told him his measurements were off.

reply to post by dragnet53


The flat Earth Society is a whole different kettle of fish IMHO and I think their whole premise is a piss take.

Doesn't mean people don't subscribe to that belief though...

What's the quote?: Oliver had his Cromwell; Columbus had his pope; and we...we have NASA. Believe me, if NASA said the earth was flat, you'd say: how flat?

reply to post by dragnet53
The original Zetetics had a genuine, perverse belief in a flat Earth.

I honestly believe the current version of the Flat Earth Society have their tongue firmly in cheek and use the claims as a satire or private joke. I read the forums some years ago and got the sense they're having a laugh at the stuffier elements of science and the media. If you see them from that perspective...they're quite funny and subversive.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Don't presume what I believe.

It's also a poor argument to use NASA, because we all know they would never claim the world is flat.

Wasn't replying to anyone in particular BUT since you are feeling guilty, of course NASA would say that the earth was flat if it was to NASA's advantage. It is no more ridiculous an example than the things that NASA has actually said. Just today, if I'm not mistaken, NASA said that asteroids flyby the earth in between the earth and moon everyday. This is nothing unusual. This happens EVERY DAY...blah blah blah.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Unfortunately, that isn't what this thread is about.

If you want to start a thread about it though, I'd be happy to discuss there with you, just shoot me a U2U!

reply to post by Chadwickus

Point taken and to the point: the 'masses' believe what they're told to believe. Critical thinkers of those times are not the 'masses' any more than they are in our times. 'Question Authority' is just a bumper sticker.

reply to post by Chadwickus


And once again I learn something that I didn't know!! Thanks for that Chad...

I am still struggling to make the connection between chemtrails and "flat earthers", is it some term that is being used to describe sceptics of the theory?? And why??

Anyway, keep on doing what you do so well.

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


No worries mate,

Obviously it was taken from a chemtrail thread, to remove the chemtrail parts of the quote would have chopped it up too much and wouldn't have made sense.

As for the relation, I don't really get it either, nor any other time it gets used to try to prove a point against skeptics.

I think the reasoning is that they believe the skeptics were the ones skeptical of the people who believed the earth to be spherical.

Logical fallacy comes to mind

reply to post by Xcalibur254

Most history classes don't focus much on the Greeks,

It is funny you mention this.

I remember that ancient Greece got covert quite extensively in my history class.
But, I only learned that some Greek guy had calculated the size of the Earth to an astonishing precise number way after I left school.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas
Years ago, a friend of mine (adult grown man!) asked me why we couldn't see China from England if we can see the Moon from Earth?

Fair enough, he was pretty ashamed of himself when I answered the question!

The point is, even today some people probably think the Earth is flat because they've never really considered it!

reply to post by Kandinsky


I once had an argument with an aunt of mine. She was a 40 or so year old women back then.
She was and still is absolutely convinced the earth is flat, and she even claimed my school books were wrong.

I've learned that some of my school books are at least a little bit subjected to influence.

Really she has a heart of gold, but....

yes the earth is flat just like a ball is flat on all sides till you look from the top down, but wait it is round, not square! Them square balls just don't bounce, or roll do they? now we are talking dice 7 comes 11...snake eyes gets you every time.

Heres an excerpt from QI (BBC TV) on this very subject... I love QI.

reply to post by davespanners
what is round, flat, and half round, and goes in four directions?
the only flat earth that is real, is a world /globe with out air.
not all have been high as a kite, nor been at sea to see.
for if the sun comes up, and the moon comes out, then the earth must spin.
if the earth was flat flat would a ball roll?
why is there mountains, if the earth is flat?

Thinking about the curvature of the earth, I think sailors new the earth is round, one never see's the whole ship in one go, one always see's the top of the mast first, then the ship slowly comes into view, from the top of the mast downwards, I wonder how many sailors realised the earth is round just from that observation.