How can you go to Heaven if you Support War or the Death Penalty?

up to the time of Jesus, to forgive our sins, we used to offer sacrifices and one of the most precious possession a person could have at that moment was a perfect sheep (highly appreciated and costly at the time)...God stopped that by offering this time a part of himself to the humanity...a perfect sheep form God to us...named Jesus.

and BTW to demonstrate by how humanity should be and behave...being as human as any other person in the planet with pain, temptations and desires, hunger, etc.

until that moment, God used different persons to guide us on how we should be everyone failed that mission...this time he came himself.

now, we are saved by his Grace when we make that sacrifice ours (the sheeps should thanks God for that :lol
that's why the believers doesn't offer animals to God anymore.

you can be the most gentle and respectful person in the world and that won't save you...only his grace.

Even a murder could go to heaven if he achieves God's grace before he dies...that's why Jesus told to one of the 2 burglars crucified that day that he would be with Jesus on heaven...even when he did all what he did, the burglar understood what Jesus was doing, trusted Jesus was right and he wanted to be part of that.

That's what bible says...I chose to believed it...as many other persons chooses to believed anything else.

I don't think the bible holds the whole and only truth...but how the world would be if everybody behave like Jesus?
That's the beauty of that history =)

reply to post by metalpr


These Christians you speak of are the same christians that will put me in the electric chair if I go on a murdering spree.

But, you say I can be forgiven just by asking for forgiveness. If thats the case, why don't we forgive murderers when they turn their life over to Jesus? Instead, we strap them in a chair and kill them with a 100,000 volts.

reply to post by earth2


You know what is ironic. That Christian believe Jesus is the Messiah promised to the Jews. The Messiah concept in Judaism does not promise a savior for sin.
www.aish.com...

By the grace of God. That's how.

Do you really think nobody in the past society where these things were rampant went to heaven?

Originally posted by earth2
reply to post by metalpr

 

These Christians you speak of are the same christians that will put me in the electric chair if I go on a murdering spree.

But, you say I can be forgiven just by asking for forgiveness. If thats the case, why don't we forgive murderers when they turn their life over to Jesus? Instead, we strap them in a chair and kill them with a 100,000 volts.

edit on 8-9-2010 by earth2 because: Its a secret

I don't know if the people that will put you in the electric chair are Christians...they could be Jews probably =)
I didn't say in any moment that if you ask for forgiveness you'll get it...God's grace will, how you can achieve it, that's between you and God.

why WE strap them in a chair and kill them with a 100,000 volts?...because humanity has always try to take God's place.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by earth2

 

You know what is ironic. That Christian believe Jesus is the Messiah promised to the Jews. The Messiah concept in Judaism does not promise a savior for sin.
www.aish.com...

Jesus was not the savior "promised" for the Jews...God is not the God of the Jews exclusively.
People that though like that at that time, couldn't understand why Jesus used to sit down and to spend time with gentle people (not Jews)...that's why... because Jesus was not meant to be the savior of just Jewish people.

What was promised to David and later prophesied by Isaiah was that Jesus would be born from a Jewish bloodline (from David's bloodline).

Originally posted by metalpr

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by earth2

 

You know what is ironic. That Christian believe Jesus is the Messiah promised to the Jews. The Messiah concept in Judaism does not promise a savior for sin.
www.aish.com...

Jesus was not the savior "promised" for the Jews...God is not the God of the Jews exclusively.
People that though like that at that time, couldn't understand why Jesus used to sit down and to spend time with gentle people (not Jews)...that's why... because Jesus was not meant to be the savior of just Jewish people.

What was promised to David and later prophesied by Isaiah was that Jesus would be born from a Jewish bloodline (from David's bloodline).

Not through the bloodline of Salomon! Tell me what you think of this article.
www.messiahtruth.com...

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by metalpr

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by earth2

 

You know what is ironic. That Christian believe Jesus is the Messiah promised to the Jews. The Messiah concept in Judaism does not promise a savior for sin.
www.aish.com...

Jesus was not the savior "promised" for the Jews...God is not the God of the Jews exclusively.
People that though like that at that time, couldn't understand why Jesus used to sit down and to spend time with gentle people (not Jews)...that's why... because Jesus was not meant to be the savior of just Jewish people.

What was promised to David and later prophesied by Isaiah was that Jesus would be born from a Jewish bloodline (from David's bloodline).

Not through the bloodline of Salomon! Tell me what you think of this article.
www.messiahtruth.com...

1 Chronicles 22:9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. [10] He shall build a house for my name; and he shall be My son, and I [will be] his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. (KJV)

So we see, any man who would sit on the throne must not only be a descendant of King David, but specifically a descendant of David’s son, Solomon.

What did article says is that the next KINGS of Israel, the next physically "kings", the ones that sit in thrones like David and Salomon did, would be born from Salomon.

Jesus NEVER EVER was physically or politically "KING" of the Israel State or any of the 12 Tribes and he NEVER sat in a throne like David and Salomon did.

Even more, Jesus as the king of the Jews was something that was attempted to impute to him in court and he NEVER said so...his accusers said so...everybody laughed at him and we all know what happened after..as prophesied by Isaiah 53:7

The Jewish community at the time got the job done...and they took Barabbas out and sent Jesus to crucifixion as it was meant to be....the ultimate sacrifice.

Without their help....Jesus would not be crucified, the grace of God wouldn't be consumed and the purpose would not be achieved.

The whole humanity owes you one =)

reply to post by earth2


This means that no leaders of countries who fight will go to heaven - this means almost all leaders.

And what about only the good die young - why?

You would think if they were good, they would be here to help.

These are the plain simple, unaliable truths :

1. If someone invades your home and threatens you and your family you do have the right to defend yourself, your family and your property with deadly force in the eyes of The Govt Of The Divine, however you must not get the taste for blood and make damn sure that was/is the only life you take and you can be forgiven under "extenuating circumstances" but what your book reveals at the time of your Judgement depends on your eligibility on this attempt or, go round.

2. There are no serial killers, rapists as well as child molesters/pedophiles amongst the populous of Heaven as if you rape a kid you will not see Heaven on this go round but if you turn your stuff around and become a productive member of society in your next assigment life you can get in,

3. Persons like Hitler, Lenin, Pot, Hussien, Mao will eventually all get in as entry into Heaven is denied to all who kill for either sport, bordemn or pleasure. None of the previous listed are eligible for parole or conditionary release from Hell to either Purgatory or Heaven until well after 3200 AD/BCE.

4. Regarding abortion the Govt Of The Divine will send someone the greatest gift that could ever bestowed upon humanity as well as other species is the gift of life but does and will understand and forgive an abortion in cases of rape and incest as she was not a willing participant and does have rights in that regard as all human females shall be safe and comfortable and shall always have final say with regards to who she decides to go to bed with as it is always her choice. Humanity is the only speicies in which abortions takes place but in a case where it is clearly evident that a parent simply cannot provide the life for the kid that all kids deserve they are allowed to terminate the pregnancy no harm no foul but if they do they absolutely must do something to help out your fellow man as a swop out of sorts, You took a life now make someone else's life better. Contrary to popular thinking is that no child younger then age 6 will be granted entry into Hell as they were not knowlegable enough to have make a conscious desicion to intentionally and willingly commit a sin.

5. Support of capitol punishment does not instantly qualify someone for a guaranteed one way pass to Hell. Capitol punishment is classified as a product of Man's law and God's Law does however allow for Man's Law to grow and expand so that is one less thing The Govt Of The Divine has to do and worry about. Making sure that God's Children has the capability and ability to self police themselves because if that becomes more non evident another hurricaine, earthquake or massive tsunami will be sent to Earth in order to restore balances. Human nature unfortunaltely knows no boundaries or limits so extermination of those who are a threat to mankind and civilization as a whole is considered to unfortunately be acceptable.

6. Support of armed conflict as well does not instantly qualify someone for a guaranteed one way pass to Hell as war at times as sick as it sounds is nessecary at times to make sure we do not get to be too good for our own good, in example : When we are encroaching or overstepping into nature's way then Human Manifest Destiny then conflicts with Natural Law and Natural Law traditionally (8.9 - 9.2 out of 10 times) wins hands down. Natural Law is fully backed and supported by God's Law.

7. Support however of a Holy War does guarantee the recipient a one way ticket to Hell as no one wants a war between the Faiths as typically (9.8 out of 10 times) ends up bad, very bad for all who participate.

8. The sad, unfortunate reality is that only between 10 - 15% of those who die nowadays will get in on this go round as the vast majority must wait. That percentile represents everyone from all ethnic backgrounds and all faiths.

9. Support for other faiths as well as converting from one faith to another also does not instantly qualify someone to recieve a guaranteed one way ticket to Hell. That is why there are 2,500 officially recognized religions on Earth so using your inaliable right to Freewill and Freechoice you have the inaliable right to chose the faith of your liking and the one you are most comfortable with.

I always thought Christians defended "not kill" as different from "not murder".

If there is a war, even if it is ill-founded with nefarious underlining purposes (most are amirite?), it is not murder but you can still kill and go to heaven because it is not murder.

You can kill in self-defence. It might not be what Jesus would do because he is perfect, but it doesn't stop you from going to heaven.

The government is different from the Church when it's convenient. The government can kill (not murder) because it "holds the sword" or something along those lines.

---

So when dealing with reality Christians rationalize this with emmphasising kill is not murder to have their cake and eat it.

reply to post by earth2


Theism - If you are part of any religion you support theism.

Theism has killed WAY WAYYY more people than any war or death penalty ever in history. Almost all wars stem from different Theism beliefs. So my question to you is How can you go to heaven if you worship god? You are part of the most active murdering cults in history and you think you are going to heaven? If you have not killed anybody don't worry there are enough people that DO murder in the name of your god to fill your shoes.

Christians are the funniest of them all. Their "savior of humanity" has the exact same story of coming into being as like 10 other gods. I hate living in America and Christianity is a major reason besides politics, Although the bible thumpers do give you a great laugh when you see them

When a large % of the population of the world believes in mystical powers and shun intelligence and reason/logic, Wars will always be the outcome. Ever notice the Muslims, when an invading country kills a member of there family they become "terrorists" in a last ditch effort to get back at us, since they believe the second they die they will get 80 virgins or whatever, so why not blow yourself up? That is the thought process plague that has effected us all.

reply to post by Quasar_La-Zar


My friend,

You state that "Theism" has killed many. I would like to offer a different perspective if I may.

Theism, a belief in God, hasn't killed one single person.

Man, however, has killed many because of his belief in God. The distinction is great.

Having a belief in God is something we all have. Even if you are one who believes a God doesn't exist, you must have God in that thought for you to deny it., hence the label A-Theist. What brings men to kill in the name of God is not God himself, but the arrogance of man to assume that he is the only one intelligent enough, wise enough, great enough, or holy enough, to perceive such a thing as God. God is the greatest of mysteries of man. It is the absolute unknowable, and unprovable, nor is it disprovable. You cannot know it because God is everything in creation. Man has not the mind to comprehend everything, has not the technology to perceive everything, nor has the ability to view everything as a whole. All he can do is understand the small parts, and do his best to comprehend. It is unprovable, because the idea of God is strictly personal. Each and everyone of us has eyes to see this existence, and a mind to comprehend it to the best of our ability. No man can prove or disprove that which exists, and is comprehended within in another's mind. So you see, it is not a belief in God that causes a man to kill in his name. Merely his own desire to dominate another's free will. This is not a godly act, for everyone of us was born with that gift. No man has a right to usurp another's.

If we all shared our perspective without judgement, then we would know how God intended us to know him. Some are meant to believe in him on faith, showing his beauty, love and grace. Some are born to question everything about him, to include his existence. this is what advances our understanding of the world around us.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This is the forgotten basic Truth of our existence. Abiding by this, we can all share our perspectives, learn from each other, and live in peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by earth2
Assuming there is a heaven and God gave us the Ten Commandments..

The sixth commandment is very clear - THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
And supporting the war makes you an accomplice.
Same as the death penalty, if you are for it, you are breaking a commandment.

Well...


The how can all those Christians that slaughtered thousands of gypsies, muslims and other relgions in the Great Crusade go to heaven?

Or maybe the Abrahamic faiths are completely off base, and you judge yourself based on your actions in life. Then you make a decision on how to grow spiritually from there.

Just a thought...

Originally posted by DocEmrick
Or maybe the Abrahamic faiths are completely off base, and you judge yourself based on your actions in life. Then you make a decision on how to grow spiritually from there.
Just a thought...

My Friend,

I would be cautious about choosing to judge yourself. By judging even yourself, you place upon you a burden, which will make your journey that much more tiresome. It may even tempt you to issue similar judgements on others, which you have not the right to do. Know yourself, know how your actions have impacted others, know that you would not have done the same to yourself if roles were reversed, forgive yourself for doing that which you have done to others, then you will grow in mind, body, and spirit. But, judge not, but love always.

With Love,

Your Brother

Ok, here are a few hypothetical questions for any Christian...

If Jesus was drafted into the Army and sent to War, would he kill? Would he fight?
How can you be a Christian Army Soldier?

Or, if a Murderer killed his Mom, Mary, would he want that person executed?

Originally posted by earth2
Ok, here are a few hypothetical questions for any Christian...

If Jesus was drafted into the Army and sent to War, would he kill? Would he fight?
How can you be a Christian Army Soldier?

Or, if a Murderer killed his Mom, Mary, would he want that person executed?

My friend,

I would like to offer my view as a student of Jesus, my Brother, though I am not "Christian".

First, Jesus would not be drafted. He was master of his own free will, just as you are. He would suffer any torment tossed at him, but he would not go.

Secondly, if someone murdered anyone he loved, he would not suffer the murderer the same fate for he loved all equally, just as I do.

If one truly understands my Brother, they would know that his message is one of unconditional love. He would know that all men are weak if they do not know love, and would forgive them for their weakness. Yes, even if their weakness put him through agonising pain.

But be cautious my Brother. You are casting judgements yourself. Don't mock the ignorance of others. Love them, and forgive them. Then they can learn the error of their ways through your grace.

With Love,

Your Brother

I dont know the quote but god also said you have the right to defend yourself from harm. if i ever get attacked and i most shot someone in self defence i would try my best to keep them alive by shotting them in the sholder or knee. if he is still a threat ill keep shoting till he/she stops

Originally posted by camaro68ss
I dont know the quote but god also said you have the right to defend yourself from harm. if i ever get attacked and i most shot someone in self defence i would try my best to keep them alive by shotting them in the sholder or knee. if he is still a threat ill keep shoting till he/she stops

My friend,

This too is in error, from my perspective, my friend. If you harm, even those who seek to kill you, you have already made the mistake of judging your own life more valuable than theirs. Even if you only seek to harm them, not kill, you have judged you being without harm, is more precious than preventing your Brothers. This thinking of , my self protection is more valuable than another's, is what brings us to the viscous cycle of "Survival of the fittest" that we find ourselves in today. Would a thief be a thief, if you willing gave him what he needed out of love? Would a murderer, be compelled to murder, him who he received love from? Only if he had a defect in the physical make up of his mind. He should not be condemned, but diagnosed and healed, which we have the ability to do.

To live by survival instincts is to live like beasts. We are Man, and better is expected of us.

Judge not, Love all. Death is not our end, but a new beginning.

With love,

Your Brother