Chris Dodd's last act: 'Control the people'

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
But people like you seem to fail to understand that since in socialism all power is given to the state, all your rights do not matter at all "for the good of everyone"....

socialism = MORE government control "FOR THE GOOD OF EVERYONE"...

I call it EXACTLY for what it is...

This bill is part of the socialist UN Local Agenda 21...

Wrong socialism requires no government or state, and THAT is the lie you're being fed. The UN is not a socialist organization lol.

Socialism, in it's traditional and true definition, means "the workers democratic ownership and/or control of the means of production". Such a definition implies that rather than a government bureaucracy for managing such means, there is a focus on highly democratic organisation, education and awareness, and every individual is encouraged to become an active, rather than passive participant in that which effect their lives. Only the workers themselves bear the knowledge of what their own freedom and liberty means, and only they know what is best for themselves, ultimately. Advocates of the state, be they on the left, or the right, have repeatedly defined the meaning of "socialism" to mean arbitrary rule by a set of "leaders", or a political con-game in which socialism is no more than capitalism with a few token adjustments for bearability.

flag.blackened.net...

It's ironic the very people you seem to be against are the ones that have convinced you that socialism is bad, and capitalism is freedom, you are one falling for the propaganda. You are playing into their hands by helping to confuse economic and political systems to keep people from realising the truth. Socialism was and is a system by and of the people, not those in power. Just go learn some history of working class people from more than just the last century...

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
when are the law makers just going to admit they have already made more laws than anyone can learn, and stop making more of them?

Never going to happen.
As soon as they decide we have enough laws, all the lawmakers will be out of a job.
That's the last thing they want.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


This legislation aims to rein in corporate irresponsibility, described as ...

According to Shaw, Agenda 21 has three main goals: "1. Abolition of private property. 2. Education for global citizenship. 3. Control over human action."

Corporations are "persons" under law - but they are not human.

What's with this campaign defending the "rights" of non-human legal entities?!? To trash OUR planet?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse




Connecting housing to jobs is like bringing back the mill housing and mill school. We still have the ruins of many textile mills here in Augusta GA. Back in the day, they wouldnt even pay you in money but in mill credits. Back in the day, people worked in the mills, lived in mill housing, went to the mill school, and shopped at the mill store. You never quite made enough to pay for everything so you were eternally indebted to your company.

Yeah, lets bring the mill. Good idea. When do we charge people with treason and arresting them for trying to pass this legislation?

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

This legislation aims to rein in corporate irresponsibility, described as ...

According to Shaw, Agenda 21 has three main goals: "1. Abolition of private property. 2. Education for global citizenship. 3. Control over human action."

Corporations are "persons" under law - but they are not human.

What's with this campaign defending the "rights" of non-human legal entities?!? To trash OUR planet?

Wait, i don't understand you trying to link this to that decision, which i disagree with, about corporations being persons.

This is not about allowing corporations to do whatever they want, this is about the UN, and global groups/elitists wanting to control every aspect of our lives.

I don't own a corporation, and I don't have either any stocks on any corporation...

Did you go to the Freedom Advocates website? I gave that main link because it has several links that show this is another type of bill that is trying to control PEOPLE, not corporations, but PEOPLE...

Corporations ARE PART OF THE ELITES THAT RULE THE WORLD, so why would the elites try to implement any bill detrimental to corporations?

Originally posted by TrueBrit

While I understand your worries about increasingly powerful government (a worry for anyone who enjoys any measure of freedom) I cannot abide your inability to recognise the difference between Socialism and dictatorship.
Unfortunately America has a historical dislike and distrust of socialism, because of the terrible examples set by Russia and China, (among others) of what they claim is a Socialist government. However, the American view of socialism is biased, and further it is utterly incorrect.
Socialism , when practiced correctly has no downsides. Everyone is worth the same, everyone has something to do , and no one is left out. Thats the basic principle. Its a good idea. The ONLY problem with it, is the same problem you get with capitalism and that is greedy corrupt persons, taking more than they are truely worth, and more than they need by a long way, which has the effect of reducing the whole nations ability to function, and means hardship for those who follow honestly the principles of such a society.

Sorry but no... I am one of those people who actually LIVED and EXPERIENCED life in a country that fully embraced socialism/communism, Cuba,...and history itself has shown that every country that completely embraces socialism/communism becomes a dictatorship, despite the claims of Europeans and others who have NEVER experienced life in a country which has fully embraced socialism/communism...

The European view of socialism/communism is biased and completely and utterly incorrect...

But as always some European, who has been living under capitalism and has enjoyed life more, and has had more money than ANYONE living under a socialist/communist country wants to claim "we know better"...

In socialism/communism yes it is true that most people are the same...but that is equally POOR, and equally OPPRESSED... that's the equality you find in socialist/communist nations...

The "basic" principle of socialism/communism WILL NEVER WORK simply because all people in a nation cannot rule that nation hence a small group of people has to "supposedly represent the mayority, and this in socialism/communism is the socialist/communist party...

In socialism/communism individualism is frowned upon and "the needs of the party come before the needs of the individual", this is the reason why EVERY country which has embraced socialism/communism completely has become a dictatorship, and it will continue happening.

Under socialism/communism the needs of the PARTY comes first, and since people have to give up their rights "for the good of all" THE MAYORITY gets oppressed by the minority in power...

Private property is also abolished, hence "the party/state" owns everything in such nation, hence the "party/state" owns all jobs and unless people accept the socialist/communist" policies the "state/party" can take away your job, or give it to someone else who "shows more enthusiasm for the socialist/communist ideals"...

Even Marx himself said that in order for peace to exist all oposition to socialism must not exist...and that in itself is saying by any means necessary people must be made to accept socialism/communism... Marx was preaching, and his ideals preach OPPRESSION, to FORCE people to accept socialism and at the end communism...

Marx himself also stated that socialism is but a stage to transform a capitalist country into the final stage of communism, and EVERY communist that has read Marx will tell you this is true...

In socialism/communism THERE IS NO INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, hence the mayority GETS OPPRESSED "for the good of all" and "all" = "the party/state"...

Originally posted by TrueBrit
Now, these proposals made by this senator fellow. I actualy understand your concerns here I really do. Its quite obvious that these measures will actualy do NOTHING to offset the carbon problem,

Carbon problem?... What carbon problem?... You do know that you are living in a world where ALL LIFE IS CARBON BASED....right?.... and CARBON, including CO2 is needed for ALL LIFE to exist. i am pretty sure the excerpt and link i gave clearly shows that all plant life, including trees, grow more, and produce more harvests with higher levels of atmospheric CO2 than exist at present on Earth's atmosphere...

Originally posted by TrueBrit
and the creation of these renewable source homes , business premises and so on, will require massive amounts of resources,and funding which frankly doesnt exist anywhere but in the heads of bankers and on paper in some vast idiot machine churning out extra dollars as required from seemingly no where.

All of which are owned by the same people who want to implement this which means they want to squeeze people of more money and they want to force people to abide to their "green agenda"...

Originally posted by TrueBrit
Its a gimmicky way of avoiding the real issue, and that is renewable ,cheap or better yet FREE (and I dont just mean exhaust free or waste free I mean FREE) energy for vehicles, powerstations, homes and businesses.

...This is the problem with people such as yourself...you actually believe that "free energy" can exist...

Europe has demonstrated after DECADES of trying that alternative sources of energy can only help with a SMALL percentage of energy needs...

The gimmick is the claim that people can, and should have everything "FREE"....

You actually think I wouldn't want to have everything handed to me FREE?...

Heck if you want you can give me a FREE HOUSE, and a FREE truck, and yes i need a truck because I live in rural land surrounded by mountains and hills...

I will even give you my address so you can send me all this FREE stuff...

Sir you, and there are many like you, need to get back down to reality...

Your car/truck didn't just appear out of nowhere, it was built by people who have KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE on how to build such car/truck. Your house/apartment was also built by people who have KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE in construction, etc, etc... Yet you want all these people to give you all this stuff for FREE?...

BTW, in case you didn't know all those hybrid cars that emit water, and water vapor will increase temperatures MORE than cars/trucks that emit CO2 will ever do...

What we should be doing is going after the REAL toxic gases and chemicals, and not following the lies of the AGW agenda...

Originally posted by TrueBrit

Its a pathetic attempt to look as if the American government is fulfilling its climate goals and progressing toward a greener future.

Pathetic attempt really?... For your information the U.S. was THE FIRST country to sign and implement a bill that would not allow any wood from illegal deforestation being used in the U.S. Your country didn't even have such a bill, and Europe TRIED to follow the U.S. lead with a similar bill, but it is not working over there...

Originally posted by TrueBrit
In actual FACT the US is (aside from recent events in the Gulf of Mexico) addicted to oil, and will remain so unless or until rich folks stop getting rich by selling it. It is only a select few powerful persons in the world , holding the human race back from energy prodcution which involves no fossil fuel, and can be achieved without massive expensive and vunerable grids to carry energy from town to town.

wow, wow, wow... so AGAIN you, like some others, want to put all the blame in the U.S.

Tell us "truebrit" is that computer you are using not made of plastic and other natural and synthetic materials?...

Are all the hospitals in your country not using plastic, rubber, diesel for their backup generators, etc, etc?...

Are your cars not using diesel?...

Are you sure you are not living in Mars?...

EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD NEEDS OIL, and it's derivaties.... and EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD will continue to need oil FOR A LONG TIME...

Your attempt to blame the U.S., like so many Europeans and others like to do, only shows your contemp, and your IGNORANCE, nothing more...

Originally posted by TrueBrit
One last thing. There is nothing wrong with being left wing . It is the antithesis of right wing agenda after all, and it is right wing politics which lead to the Nazi party gaining power. Alot of Americans seem confused about that as well , but lets face it folks, Hitler was not a liberal. He was a right wing fascist xenophobe. Being out on the left merely means that a person would rather cut their gonads off than be associated with his sort of BS , unlike for instance George Bush and his mate Cheney who , if your honest with yourself about it, were as extremist in thier pursuit of wealth , as Hitler was in his pursuit of the twisted goals of his party .

Reaaaallyyy?....

AGAIN you show how ignorant you are about the realities of the world...

Hitler, the NAZI party, and ALL OF GERMANY during Hitler's rise to power WAS SOCIALIST...

NAZI Germany used nothing more than ANOTHER form of SOCIALISM called National SOCIALISM which was NAZISM... The NAZIS accused capitalism, and communism of being associated with Jewish interests...

The NAZIS went after communists just like the different factions of socialists/communists disagree with each other as to which is the perfect form of "SOCIALISM"...

Hitler himself said what he, and Germany were during that time in many speeches...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of todays capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

BTW, Hitler was ALSO an ENVIRONMENTALIST and VEGETARIAN...

NAZI GERMANY AND THE ENVIRONMENT

ENVIRONMENTAL POLICIES AND VIEWS

The term ecology was invented in Germany in the nineteenth Century by the pioneering zoologist Ernst Haeckel. Via his widely influential writings and lectures, Haeckel elaborated a holistic view of man's symbiotic relationship with the natural world. To Haeckel, and those who followed his philosophy of "Monism", natural laws governed the workings of the natural world and human civilization alike. Haeckel and others of his philosophical school taught respect for nature and preached conservation.

What many people do not know about Haeckel, however, is his connection to national socialism. Haeckel placed his views about nature conservation into a world view similar to that of Social Darwinism Here, only the strong (both individually and on a national scale) and those willing to fight, survived the constant upward struggle that characterized national evolutionary development. Nations, cultures, and peoples could therefore be categorized "scientifically" into those that were superior and those that were inferior, with the latter being considered expendable and even worthy of destruction. Haeckel also had racial views similar to Hitler.

This brief collection of quotes illustrates the decisive role that a radical ecological understanding of the world played within National Socialism. Needless to say, ecology as a science and natural philosophy as a whole have not always assumed the same radical ideological shape throughout history. Since World War II, the Green movements that have sprung up all over the world are largely democratic in nature and are as concerned about the well being of humanity as they are about the health of the planet as a whole.

However, the deteriorating world environmental situation in our time could create incentives for even harsher regimes than those of Nazi Germany. Thus, it is useful to study this subject.
...

www.worldfuturefund.org...

The ecological movement was formed by RADICAL SOCIALISTS, the NAZIS... and slowly but surely the ecological/environmental movement is once again moving in that direction....


The Arab Ba'ath Party is also socialist, and it embraces another form of socialism, and like other forms of socialism it produced nothing more than oppression and death...

Socialism = more government, or if you want to call it PARTY control, which leads to oppression of people...

Originally posted by TrueBrit

Its a gimmicky way of avoiding the real issue, and that is renewable ,cheap or better yet FREE (and I dont just mean exhaust free or waste free I mean FREE) energy for vehicles, powerstations, homes and businesses. Its a pathetic attempt to look as if the American government is fulfilling its climate goals and progressing toward a greener future.
...

Oh, and btw...you actually think that the elites, and world organizations are doing all this for "a greener future"?....

Like Hitler did, these people are using environmentalism/ecology" to implement draconian laws and to control every aspect of people's lives...

THAT is their goal... not "a greener future"....

If they wanted "a greener future" they would want HIGHER levels of atmospheric CO2 which would HELP all green biomass on Earth...but instead they want to sequester CO2...and that goes along with their "depopulation plans"... The less atmospheric CO2 that exist, the less harvests we can have, which means less food, which means MORE STARVATION WORLDWIDE...

reply to post by ElijahWan



I think that you might have confused Carbon Dioxide with Carbon Monoxide. Carbon Monoxide fits the specifications that you describe, while Carbon Dioxide is just plant food. By the way, we can get along just fine without Nitrogen, provided there is another inert gas to dilute the Oxygen levels. Ask any SCUBA diver what Tri-Mix consists of, if you don't believe me. At depth Nitrogen is actually poisionous. Google "Nitrogen Narcosis" for an explaination.

Oh, and btw the actual phrase that Marx used was...

"The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism. Karl Marx"

It clearly shows Marx wanted to coerce and even force people to accept socialism

Marx also preached, and his writings preach the abolition of not only religion, but ALL SPIRITUAL PATHS... Marx wanted to FORCE materialism upon people, but a materialism that is controlled by the party/state.

In essence in socialism/communism the party/state controls every aspect of the life of people... This is why ALL countries which have fully embraced socialism/communism have turned into socialist DICTATORSHIPS...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Why are you so concerned with Marx? He was just one man with his own ideas. He's now dead btw, and not much of a 'threat' anymore.

Not all socialists are Marxists. Most are not and don't really care what he said and what you think of him.

Workers don't, or didn't, have to be coerced into socialism, most working class people at the time of Marx were socialists. Marx just offered one way to implement socialism, there are others. Don't confuse Marx's ideas of how to implement socialism and what it actually is.

Marx used to be at logger heads with the Anarchists all the time, because Marx wanted a state socialist system and the Anarchists didn't. They all wanted socialism, but simply disagreed on how it should be accomplished and how it should be ran.

For example Anarcho-Syndicalism is a way to implement socialism using worker unions. You might not agree with using unions, but that doesn't make socialism itself bad. Just like syndicalism is not the be all and end all of socialism neither is Marx, or anyone one person for that matter.

All you need to realise in its base definition socialism is 'the workers ownership of the means of production'. There are many way to accomplish this, and we don't all agree with them, criticize Marx but don't criticize socialism because of how Marx wanted to implement and run it.

By criticizing Marx you are not criticizing socialism.

Originally posted by ANOK

Wrong socialism requires no government or state, and THAT is the lie you're being fed. The UN is not a socialist organization lol.

.... the socialist/communist party which "supposedly" represents the people IS A FORM OF GOVERNMENT....

You really have NO IDEA of what you are talking about... Whenever a society is formed, and there are many people in that society/city either there is a government, and there are laws, or anarchy and chaos ensues...

There is NO ANARCHY in socialism/communism... There are laws and people are forced to follow those laws hence THERE IS A GOVERNMENT IN SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM...despite the claims that there are none...

You people REAAALLY need to get down from those clouds you are living in...

... Your claims about socialism/communism go against the principles that Marx himself wrote about...

in socialism/communism PEOPLE ARE NOT FREE to chose whatever they want with their lives... People are FORCED to follow the socialist/communist principles...

People ARE NOT FREE to own property which means they are at the mercy of the "PARTY/STATE"...

People ARE NOT FREE to follow whatever ideology they want since Marx himself preached that all opposition to socialism must cease to exist in order for peace to exist...

People ARE NOT FREE to follow their own spiritual path since Marx preached for the "party/state" materialism to be forced upon people...

Originally posted by ANOK
It's ironic the very people you seem to be against are the ones that have convinced you that socialism is bad, and capitalism is freedom, you are one falling for the propaganda. You are playing into their hands by helping to confuse economic and political systems to keep people from realising the truth. Socialism was and is a system by and of the people, not those in power. Just go learn some history of working class people from more than just the last century...

unlike you I have done a lot more than just read books... You have probably even chosen which books you wanted to read which were all written by advocates of socialism/communism...

You want to claim people have convinced me when I HAVE EXPERIENCED SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM FIRST HAND?...

It is people like you who have been indoctrinated into believing the "FAIRY TALES OF SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM"... instead of knowing the facts and realizing what the "small print" is saying and what Marx and his thugs wanted to do...

It is you, who were born in a CAPITALIST nation, and lived a CAPITALIST way of life which however miserable is or was in actuality it is or was 1000 times better than the life of people who have actually experienced socialism/communism, who have been indoctrinated to believe LIES...

The UN and world organizations ARE SOCIALISTS, and like in the past they want to implement socialism/communism in capitalist nations so they can have ALL THE POWER...

Try having an entire country of millions of people be the government and see what happens....

Even in islands natives had, and have leaders for a reason... Same with native Americans and ALL ancient people...

You better get off that cloud quick before it disperses under your feet and you fall to your doom...

Originally posted by ANOK

Why are you so concerned with Marx? He was just one man with his own ideas. He's now dead btw, and not much of a 'threat' anymore.

Because his ideas are still believed, and followed by many people blindly without ralising what he really wanted...

Marx ideas are one form of socialism/communism... there are many others and every one of them has led to suffering and oppresion...

Originally posted by ANOK
Not all socialists are Marxists. Most are not and don't really care what he said and what you think of him.

...and EVERY form of socialism has brought dictatorship upon the people....

Originally posted by ANOK
Workers don't, or didn't, have to be coerced into socialism, most working class people at the time of Marx were socialists. Marx just offered one way to implement socialism, there are others. Don't confuse Marx's ideas of how to implement socialism and what it actually is.

Really?... so china didn't invade Vietnam and forced millions of people to abide by the socialist/communist ideals?...

The Vietcom, and the chinese communists who were sent to Vietnam didn't murder hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese who didn't want to accept the "socialist/communist' ideals?...

The U.S.S.R. did no send political prisoners to gulags, and indoctrination camps because they would protest against "socialism/communism"?...

And the same hasn't happened in every country which has completely embraced socialism/communism?...

The countries where brain dead people joined the socialist party were ALL in CAPITALIST, AND FREE NATIONS which were not ruled by socialism/communism... In these countries these people HAD A CHOICE....

The countries that actually embraced socialism/communism completely DID NOT ALLOW PEOPLE TO CHOOSE WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO....

Originally posted by ANOK
Marx used to be at logger heads with the Anarchists all the time, because Marx wanted a state socialist system and the Anarchists didn't. They all wanted socialism, but simply disagreed on how it should be accomplished and how it should be ran.

You just described the reason why "EVERYBODY" cannot be part of a government.. ALL PEOPLE cannot be in complete control, hence leaders are chosen...

Even in the socialist parties, and democratic parties ALL HAVE LEADERS.... This by itself shows that "ALL PEOPLE" cannot rule...

Socialism is an oxymoron, because it's ideals and principles go against reality...

Originally posted by ANOK
All you need to realise in its base definition socialism is 'the workers ownership of the means of production'. There are many way to accomplish this, and we don't all agree with them, criticize Marx but don't criticize socialism because of how Marx wanted to implement and run it.

All you need to realize is that the "WORKER'S PARTY" HAS LEADERS... A few people who DECIDE FOR THE MAYORITY, and this means the "WORKER'S PARTY" IS A GOVERNMENT...

Originally posted by ANOK
By criticizing Marx you are not criticizing socialism.

In case you didn't notice i criticized not only Marx but EVERY form of socialism, because it is all based on ideas which have no base on reality...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by FortAnthem

Heck, if sombody out there is drinking bear, I don't know if I'd have the guts to tell them to do anything.

... If you don't understand that i was talking about beer but was in a hurry and wrote bear instead I really don't know what to tell you...

and what the heck does this have to do with the bill?...

Sorry man but I just couldn't get the image of guys sitting around drinking bear out of my head. You have to admit, it was a pretty funny typo, you should see some of the doozies I've put out.

S&F for the good thread though.

Any bill with the word "sustainable" in it should send up red flags right away. You just know it must have some evil power grab behind it.

Oh and btw, and as proof that politicians in the U.S. are being told by socialist world organizations what to do, just listen to this video and watch how Hillary Clinton says that the CFR tells them, the U.S. government, what we should be doing, and how we should think about the future...

www.youtube.com...

I have to agree with others when they say the OP is making this out to something more than it is.

The way I read it, they just want to make cities more efficient.

Encouraging people to live closer to their place of work is actually a good thing. Not only would it reduce traffic, and reduce public transportation costs, but it would also reduce pollution. Also encouraging people to have more efficient homes is also a good thing. Although it may cost money, in the long run you will save money on energy costs, and at the same time reduce pollution.

This topic does seem to be fear mongering. You aren't going to be turned into a slave, clam down.

Originally posted by FortAnthem

Sorry man but I just couldn't get the image of guys sitting around drinking bear out of my head. You have to admit, it was a pretty funny typo, you should see some of the doozies I've put out.

i know it was funny, but I actually thought that you were using that typo as an excuse to dismiss the thread.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
S&F for the good thread though.

Thanks for that, although it seems that a lot of people think differently even when the underlying intention of this bill is obvious.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
Any bill with the word "sustainable" in it should send up red flags right away. You just know it must have some evil power grab behind it.

It is the same as the word "progress" and "progressive" even leaders, and people of nations which not too long ago were socialist/communist nations have been TRYING to warn westerners about those who are using "progress" as an excuse to bring "change'...

These people are not talking about technology, or making the world a better place, "progress" for these people is change in politics towards a socialist/communist government.

These words, just as the "promise of change" have been used in the past to lure people into accepting socialist dictatorships. This is not new, but to the MTV generation, and the baby boomer generation which have been sytematically indoctrinated into believing once again in the socialist/communist lies this means nothing.. to them this is business as usual to arrive at their utopia which in reality is, and will be nothing more than another socialist dictatorship...

Soooo....Agenda 21 is coming to a state near you, huh?

i was wondering if we were going to have this battle sooner rather than later.

The Orwellian future is now.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Soooo....Agenda 21 is coming to a state near you, huh?

i was wondering if we were going to have this battle sooner rather than later.

The Orwellian future is now.

Yep, exactly, and a lot of people, those who have fallen to the indoctrination, actually believe this is good, and they are doing it "for the good of mankind"...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Oh my. Someone is a little bit up themselves and insists on being a confrontational twit, so much so that they have shown themselves to know NOTHING.
You can live in Cuba all you want, but that only teaches you about CUBA and about European socialsim you know NOTHING. Its absolute fallacy to say that Europeans know nothing about socialism when a full half the continent was under communist rule until the mid eighties... ignorant argumentative cuss? Why yes I think you are.
Further more, someone who lives in Cuba, has no business trying to educate me on the political methodology of Hitler. Im British, we know more about Hitler than his own mother did, because even generations later, most of us still like the idea of killing a few Nazis. It gives us reason to learn of that crap, in far more detail than you are capable of, being no where near the place and generaly ignorant of the facts, and the effects down the years of the second world war.
National Socialsim as practiced by the Nazi party is a perfect example of a LIE. It was never a truely socialist agenda but a vehicle for bloodshed, nothing more. That is NOT socialism at work, thats evil. There is a difference.

On the subject of green issues, of course you are correct in saying that the more Co2 the more plants to make oxygen and so on and so forth. But what you are ignoring is that not all Co2 gets absorbed and processed by plants. Quite a sum of it merely builds up in the atmosphere adding to the crap we keep throwing up there. You hassle me for believing in Free Energy , but devices already exist which do perform this trick very well, and unfortunately , one just got banned from being manufactured in canada. The official who banned it said he was doing so on the basis that its distribution would destabilise the global ecconomic status quo. Look it up. Worth a read.

Oh , one more thing. You might think when you read my posts that you need to explain the origins of my computer keyboard, and everything the hell else. You dont. What you need to do , is stop behaving so godamned angry at me, and just look at things from more than your own tired view. Your views of course are your own, but the next time you speak to a Briton about Europe , you must accept that we are here , and you quite frankly , are NOT.

OP, for those not familiar with agenda 21 see this here-Taking Liberty how private property is being taken in the US

Taking Liberty is a comprehensive look at the lower 48 states showing, region by region, how the Environmental Movement is rapidly abolishing Private Property in America. When you click on the links below, a new window will open and play each program.

Please Note: You must have a Macromedia or Adobe Flash player installed on your computer to view the programs.

So if you do not have a flash player installed, it will not play.

And for you fools out there, look at the wording of the BILL!

SUSTAINABILITY PLAN

Look here-www.amec.com...

Look here-en.wikipedia.org...

Look here-www.apfn.net...

I could post a thousand links to proof but we have people that will say just about anything to not see the truth.

Global communism is their plan and they are ramping up efforts.

Want to do some REAL RESEARCH, try this site-www.globalresearch.ca...

Whoever posted the bill, what do you think moving people closer to their work sites mean? Think of China, you know, where the slaves live in the same building they work in.

People cannot be THIS BLIND.