Why was Jesus illiterate?

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Most theologians believe that Jesus spoke at least two languages aramaic and greek. But He could have spoken up to four languages including hebrew and latin.

Well it determines what was fluent in his time. Wikipedia says Aramaic and probably some Latin. Second line

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


There is proof that He spoke aramaic and greek at least. Aramaic was taught to children at that time as a first language. Before the roman empire there was the greek empire so greek was well known all over the world as a secondary language because the greek empire advanced so far. Also in scripture Jesus speaks greek so aramaic and greek at least.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Jesus was a Rabbi. Here's a link that actually speaks of Rabbis, how Jesus was a Rabbi and not how Judaism doesn't believe Jesus fullfilled the Law.

www.fishingtheabyss.com...

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Jesus wasn't illiterate. He taught and read from scrolls in the Temple.

Secondly, it would be much harder for people to believe Jesus was God if He were the only one saying it. But when you have eyewitnesses to your life all saying you never sinned, and your own brothers saying you never sinned (James, Jude), and other people saying you rose from the dead, it's much more credible evidence.

If anyone could refute Jesus's claim to never have sinned it would be His brothers and mother.

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

 

Most theologians believe that Jesus spoke at least two languages aramaic and greek. But He could have spoken up to four languages including hebrew and latin.

Jesus is God, I'm certain He can speak every language and dialect known to mankind.

Just sayin..

Originally posted by LAinhabitant
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

A person can write a book about how to love others so that others can read that book and learn from it. Or a person can teach others by example by showing love for others such as showing forgiveness, loving their enemies, being kind to others, being unsefish and having compassion.

Or a supposedly omniscient and omnipotent being could do both. And though Jesus did teach those things, he did teach quite a few other things that were a bit more subject to interpretation (at least if the Bible is to be believed)

Jesus is the living word of God. He didn't need to write a book 'about how to live and relate to God' because Jesus is the LOGOS - the word of God.

...that is a non-sequitur, a statement where the conclusion in no way follows from the premise.

Another example would be: Did you know that monkeys use primitive tools? That means boomerangs return to you!

Your premise: Jesus is the living word of God (you state this twice)
Your conclusion: Jesus doesn't have to write a book about how to live and relate to aforementioned God

There's a distinct lack of connection. Could you please justify your position? You're essentially giving me a 'because I said so' situation until you do.

At the time of Jesus the Pharisees were already taking the Torah to extremes and focusing their lives on living to the letter of the Law while sinning as they totally disregarded their inner man.

It's quite apparent from historical records that this was in no way a new development. The Hebrew religion was no different from any other religion of the bronze age in that regard, they all disregarded anything but the letter of their religion. The Ba'alists would boil their lambs in the milk of their mother's without regard for why they did it. It was just the stuff they did.

For example they washed their hands before eating and did all the ceremonious things

Which would include stuff such as ceremoniously washing yourself after you wet the bed (yep, it's in there), not shaking hands with women (they might be on their menstrual cycle for all you know), and circumcising the corpses of enemies they killed.

but disregarded the inner things such as their outward pride, evil thoughts, greed, malice, deceit and arrogance. They were self righteous hypocrites who prided themselves in not having outward sins.

Except that you don't know that. All you have is a book that was written in direct opposition to those people to defend your accusations. Historically there isn't a necessary connection to them being all that corrupt in any ways more than the average Hebrew of the period, which was no more corrupt, evil, proud, greedy, malicious, deceitful, or arrogant than the rest of the world. You're judging those you have no knowledge of...judge not lest yet be judged much?

In my opinion Jesus would not have written a book because He was a humble servant who would have seen himself writing a book as a proudful thing to do.

You mean an omnipotent, omniscient deity who claims to have created the universe, has ordered genocide, and actively opposed the power structure of his society was humble? Or a servant for that matter...who was he serving? Himself?

Also, how is writing a book a 'proudful' thing to do?

I mean, the guy claimed to be god, that's essentially the single most arrogant and proud statement possible. Your deity doesn't see himself as a servant, you deity is a master of reality. Read up on your religion.

I recommend some research on the word logos

Greek for word. Taken as a theological concept by the Catholic church in order to reconcile the gospels with the Torah. Didn't need much research there.

reply to post by I Want To Believe


It's simply a little joke. I was asked by someone if I desired for a deity to be real once and I thought for a while and thought "Maybe Thor, it would make life a giant metal video" but no matter how awesome that sounds, it's insanely dangerous.
Hence the sort of.

And I don't like mysteries. One of the points where I absolutely agree with Richard Dawkins is in this single statement:

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.

-Richard Dawkins

reply to post by JesusisTruth

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Because Jesus workd through his prophets and was the ultimate of simplicity.

Wouldn't ultimate simplicity be 'ok, I'll just carve everything into the side of this mountain here with lightning, then you won't have to argue over anything"

Working through prophets is an awfully roundabout way of doing things rather than a simple one.

As a matter of fact we have something in our belief called grace and the holy ghost.

Those apostles went to communion on the first day of the week. They had God living in them, so it was actually God inspiring them working through them.

But why didn't Jesus, who you believe is god made man, not do it himself? It's the easier option of the two.

it's all grace.

After death God will show you what I mean.

That's always your reply. I've been actively seeking the answers in life, I'd like them while I'm seeking for them.

I don't think God was illiterate. He made our tounges a reality and our hands and languages. lol.

Actually, evolutionary processes developed both our tongues and our hands, while language is a pure human invention. No deity was involved in language, we made the plethora of languages ourselves.

reply to post by Freedom_is_Slavery


Well, he would have been quite dead, even of natural causes at the time those books were written. But why didn't the supposedly omniscient dude write down anything in life?

reply to post by Hefficide


I was expecting a post ignoring everything but the title was going to come up sooner or later. The question isn't whether or not Jesus was illiterate.

The central question of this thread is: Why didn't Jesus write anything?
The only unquestionable answer would be illiteracy. You can't fault a guy for not writing anything if he can't.

reply to post by DISRAELI

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Obviously not illiterate, because he was able to go into the synagogue and read aloud a passage from Isaiah.

Well, he could have technically memorized that and then recited it with an open book in front of him. No difficult feat to pull off. But the question isn't literacy.

I'm simply stating that illiteracy is the only reasonable excuse Jesus would have for not writing things down.

He wasn't putting things in writing because his work was with the people immediately around him.
Writing only became necessary when people began transmitting his words on to others.
No great mystery involved- you're just creating an issue out of nothing here.

There is a massive issue involved here: the guy claims to be god.

If one claims to be god then one gains certain responsibilities, especially when that god is omniscient and omnipotent. This deity should have been able to anticipate that there would be a period of blood conflicts over who was interpreting the religious book that sprung out of his religion properly. Him simply writing things down would have solved that, thousands of lives would have been spared, mess solved.

But instead we get religious wars that crop up all over Europe, mass amounts of religious discrimination for hundreds of years, and much, much more.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Secondly, it would be much harder for people to believe Jesus was God if He were the only one saying it.

...thank you for destroying that Straw man but I'm not presenting you with a situation where he would be the only one saying anything. I'm saying why not having the Gospel of Jesus followed by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John? Or the other way around.

But when you have eyewitnesses to your life all saying you never sinned, and your own brothers saying you never sinned (James, Jude), and other people saying you rose from the dead, it's much more credible evidence.

If anyone could refute Jesus's claim to never have sinned it would be His brothers and mother.

There is zero evidence that would provide that single eyewitness wrote a word of the Bible. Please, show your evidence that proves otherwise.

Anyway. Did you hear Chuck Norris doesn't have a chin? He actually just has another fist under his beard.
That's the level of credibility of an 'eyewitness' account anyway.
As well as all the 'eyewitness' accounts of Elvis still being around.

And Elvis didn't do no drugs (warning, NSFW)

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Alright fine, you don't like my first response. Here is a simple answer for your OP:

"You can ask Him why at Judgment Day."

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Greetings my friend,

Jesus did not write anything because he taught mouth to ear, and by demonstration. It is a more intimate way of teaching, and is a technique still employed by Masters all over the world. If you simply put things in writing and say here read the book, there is a chance of misunderstanding and misinterpretation. When Jesus taught, he used real life situations to teach his moral truths. He used those real life situations so the people he was teaching would fully understand them. Furthermore, when you put wisdom to writing, students tend to worship the writing more than understand the truth contained in it. Lastly, his teachings weren't meant to be used to build a power structure such as the church. They were meant to liberate people FROM the church, or at the time, the temple, and even liberate them from the power of Rome.

But, don't take my word for it. Think for yourself.

If you want to pass a message of true love, do you write it down and say "read this", or do you look them straight in the eye and tell them your message?

Your Brother

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
If one claims to be god then one gains certain responsibilities, especially when that god is omniscient and omnipotent. This deity should have been able to anticipate that there would be a period of blood conflicts over who was interpreting the religious book that sprung out of his religion properly. Him simply writing things down would have solved that, thousands of lives would have been spared, mess solved.

My friend, Jesus never claimed to be God. He claimed to be the Son of God, which we all are, and he claimed to be the Son of Man, which we all are. Others in the Bible associated him as being God, not Jesus.

Furthermore, he knew this was going to happen and that there would be blood spilled over him. Which is why he said he was coming back. He is coming back to clean up the mess the people who tarry forth in his name have made, not him.

Read the words ascribed to Jesus in the Bible. Compare them for yourself to this bit of truth. Everyone of his parables is just an elaboration of the one Truth, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Everything Jesus taught was this one Truth, wrapped in different situations, that others may understand just how deep the meaning of that Truth goes.

Read it for yourself, and understand with this key.

With love,

Your Brother

reply to post by madnessinmysoul
Madnessinmysoul,
There is a lot of old writtings but realize this from what we use, God who was in Jesus gave the original Hebrew lanquage. Some say that was the lanquage of God as He gave the best first. Then at the tower of Babel He confused the plans of men by giving many lanquages. Then in the Agnostic writtings you can read the infancy gospels stories of Jesus when He was young and Joseph would send Jesus to different so called learned teachers to learn "letters" and he quickly confounded them all with far more knowledge than they could comprehend, reason was He was the one who is All Wisdom. If you want Wisdom pray to Him for it as Solomon did and was geven great wisdom. Will He give you and me wisdom? Yes but we must become His as the same with Prophecy, who does He give understanding to of them? To only those who are His and only His. Why is because He offers eternal life first and if that is rejected why would He give you something to destroy yourself and more, example, Solomon. He had great wisdom but went haywire with women and all were guilty of adultery. The story of Solomon is a lesson He gave to men to understand this. No, no Jesus was not illiterate but is the fountain of wisdom.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

I'm a stickler for Truth and His Word is Truth and the foundation, the anvil by what all is brought to prove or disaprove. The Rock the Solid Foundation. He is The Truth the Way and The Life. Jn. 14:5

It is good to think upon these things.

Truthiron

reply to post by IAMIAM


Wow your ignorant to scripture. At Jesus's trial before the Council He was found guilty of the Pharisees for blasphemy.

It's in the plain text, the High Priest ripped His clothing when Jesus said He was God.

1. Jesus said He came down from heaven.
2. Jesus said He pre-existed the creation of the world.
3. Jesus walked on water.
4. Jesus raised the dead.
5. Jesus commanded the demons.
6. Jesus was born of a virgin, conceived by the Holy Spirit.

The reason Jesus was killed was because He stated numerous times He was God. 85 times in the NT alone. He says in Revelation He is the "Alpha and Omega".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Wow your ignorant to scripture. At Jesus's trial before the Council He was found guilty of the Pharisees for blasphemy.

Then I reckon I will be too.

I am the Son of God, I too have been here since the beginning and will be here till the end, I am free of sin, for I realised my sinful state, and repented (which means you change your ways and do not sin again), God has forgiven me, and I now live and work for God's will, not my own.

Jesus was my Brother, it is his life that I use as my example, and like him I have God's word, and need no book of man to be my rule and guide.

Love is God's word. That is entirely enough for me. Love God, Love your Brothers and Sisters, Labor for them both.

I do not ask you to subscribe to this teaching. You have your own eyes to see, your own ears to hear, and your own word of God to follow.

I do not judge you for who you are, or what view you subscribe to. You cannot judge me, my word, or my actions, for you know them not, and, God already has and he says I AM doing just fine.

I will put in a good word for you.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by NOTurTypical


That's a horribly ignorant answer that is nothing more than a childish and inflammatory remark combined with what you believe to be a thread. Such posts do not contribute anything to the discussion and I'm surprised there wasn't a sanction put on your for such ignorance on a website that states that it openly seeks to deny it.


reply to post by IAMIAM


I get that many Christians believe that Jesus taught in an intimate way, but why couldn't he do both? He certainly had time to. A page or so a week? Just 50 pages directly from Jesus would have saved your religion so much hassle.

However, I am happy that you're asking me to think for myself.

Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Madnessinmysoul,
There is a lot of old writtings but realize this from what we use, God who was in Jesus gave the original Hebrew lanquage. Some say that was the lanquage of God as He gave the best first. Then at the tower of Babel He confused the plans of men by giving many lanquages.

Well, the Hebrew language predates Hebrew monotheism and many other languages predate the Hebrew religion, Sanskrit and the Cuneiform languages are just two examples of written languages that prove that the tower of Babel story is...useless babble I guess, at least from a historical point of view.

And I doubt there's a 'best language', as that is one of those things that seems to be a matter of opinion.

Then in the Agnostic writtings you can read the infancy gospels stories of Jesus when He was young and Joseph would send Jesus to different so called learned teachers to learn "letters" and he quickly confounded them all with far more knowledge than they could comprehend, reason was He was the one who is All Wisdom.

I believe you mean the Gnostic writings. But that doesn't address the issue of why he didn't write a gospel himself.

If you want Wisdom pray to Him for it as Solomon did and was geven great wisdom.

I don't believe in a deity and this doesn't address the issue. I'm not here to be preached at, I'm here to understand why Jesus didn't write anything down. Please address the issue at hand and refrain from attempting to convert me. I'll just leave this as a continual comment because more or less the rest of your post is propaganda that goes entirely off topic.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Counterpoint: Jesus didn't say anything, people say Jesus said things. Plenty of people have said that plenty of things about other people in books, doesn't make them true.

Now you can say the Bible states that Jesus said something, but unless I see something that claims to be directly written by him...well, no dice.

Jesus, if he actually existed at all, would have been dead for a minimum of a few decades before the first written canonical scriptures. So it's not like he could be quoted.

Hence the entire thread.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Hefficide

 

I was expecting a post ignoring everything but the title was going to come up sooner or later. The question isn't whether or not Jesus was illiterate.

The central question of this thread is: Why didn't Jesus write anything?
The only unquestionable answer would be illiteracy. You can't fault a guy for not writing anything if he can't.

I did not post a reply based upon the thread title alone. My statement was relevant to an aspect of the OP that was brought up.

To more directly address the entirety of your postulation: If Jesus did write anything of note, then the Catholic church has suppressed it or it has been lost to time.

reply to post by Hefficide


And that's a baseless statement. You can't really back it up anymore than I can back up the statement "Hitler went back in time and destroyed them"

I'd prefer statements of substance, not conjecture.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Hefficide

 

And that's a baseless statement. You can't really back it up anymore than I can back up the statement "Hitler went back in time and destroyed them"

I'd prefer statements of substance, not conjecture.

You'd have me try and prove a negative?

If Jesus wrote anything then it was obviously either supressed or lost as we have no knowledge of it. Exactly how is this a baseless statement?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I get that many Christians believe that Jesus taught in an intimate way, but why couldn't he do both? He certainly had time to. A page or so a week? Just 50 pages directly from Jesus would have saved your religion so much hassle.

Remember my friend, I am a heretic, and not a Christian, just a follower of Jesus, so....

Jesus did not write anything down because he did not want to be deified.

A master teaches students to think for themselves, something that the Judaic faith did not. The judaic faith did not teach you to think for yourself. You went to the priests to be told how to think. Remember the Bible we have today is based off the Bible that Emperor Constantine had commissioned. How were Christians treated before this time? They were oppressed in every kind of way, yet they did not fight back. The taught and lived by Jesus' example. Rome could not defeat this because every form of oppression visited up these early followers only inspired more to go to them. It was personal power.

So, Constantine had to defeat this movement from within. He became Christian, bought off some of the early leaders and commissioned a book that mixed Jesus' teachings with pagan teachings and the Judaic teachings. It was a one size fits all faith bringing the Roman pagans, followers of Christ, and the Jews under the control of Rome.

Jesus taught to give everything that rome claimed back to Rome.

"Give unto Caesar, that which belongs to Caesar."

Jesus taught to take care of each other

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life"

Jesus taught that wealth is a trap that prevents a perfect society from being born.

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter Heaven."

Jesus taught equality by his actions.

When his disciple were arguing over who should be the one to wash the feet of the guests, Jesus himself quietly went about washing theirs

Jesus taught many things that were directly contradictory to Empire. So, ask yourself how can an Empire claim to accept his teachings, yet remain an Empire?

Easy. They didn't they took his teachings and wrapped them in a bunch of other teachings that supported Empire.

Jesus knew the power of writing and how it becomes deified over time. He only had to look at the effects of the Judaic faith as an example.

They started out with all being equal, ie. Adam & Eve.

Evolved to the flood of Noah. Again all being equal.

Then when a Man decides to put a law into writing, ie the Ten commandments, a power structure of Priests and Kings is formed.

All men are Priests and Kings. That is what Jesus taught. If you put that to writing, over time as language changes, a power structure is born which takes the right to decide for oneself away.

If you don't believe your a Priest, listen for God next time you feel pure unconditional Love, ie when your child is born.

If you don't believe your a King, listen to how much you adore your own Freedom.

With Love,

Your Brother