Calling Christian Leaders to the Carpet

Originally posted by LDaysCal
reply to post by itistrue

 

Since Hebrews 9:27 states, "Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment," why does the Bible record 11 different people being raised from the dead?

You're reading the verse wrong. It's not saying that once a man dies he immediately faces judgment. It says man has two concrete appointments in their life. Death and judgment. The Great White Throne judgment of Jesus Christ doesn't happen till the 1,000 year reign of Christ on Earth. But all men are appointed to be judged in their life.

Secondly, it never says men are appointed to die once and only once. If a person dies and comes back from the dead and dies again they have died once. If a person has done something twice he has done it a minimum of once.

It's better read this way: All men will die, and ALL men will be judged.

That is why I lean towards Elijah and Enoch as being the two witnesses in Revelation. If it's Elijah and Moses then that would mean Enoch has never died which would make God's words wrong by one person which is impossible. God cannot err.

Originally posted by nlouise


Where does the Bible say that the ‘angels’ will preach the gospel to every person on earth?

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Revelation 14:6

Why are the 2 witnesses described as the 2 candlesticks and the 2 olive trees?

Because they are. Elijah was a Jew, Enoch was a gentile. Read Revelation chapter 11:

"1I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

7Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth."

What connection does the candlestick and the olive tree have to Enoch and Elijah?

No, Revelation 11:10 above says they are "two prophets". Elijah was a Jew, Enoch was a gentile.

These represent 2 peoples, not 2 people.

Not true, again see Revelation 11:10. They are "two prophets".

We are God’s witnesses that will declare his word with flames of fire.

There is nothing figurative about the judgments these two prophets will be able to accomplish during the tribulation. Remember when studying scripture this famous adage: "When the plain sense of scripture makes sense seek no other sense."

Who is Jacob (Jacob’s trouble)?

No, Jacob is Israel. The 12 tribes of Jacob, the Jews. Every person on earth came from Noah's sons not from Jabob.

We are Jacob, we are Israel, those that are in Jesus Christ.

No we are not, it's erroneous to take prophecies and verses that deal with the Jews and take them for the gentiles. There are covenants God made with the Jews for eternity that He never made with the gentiles. One is Sabbath keeping, God made that covenant with Israel for all eternity, He never entered into that covenant with the gentiles for eternity. Many people err when trying to take the gentiles into God's covenant or prophecies that deal with the nation of Israel or the Jews.

Jacobs trouble is a time where there is going to be REAL trouble for those who follow after Jesus Christ, the tribulation.

I agree fully, but you must remember the Tribulation is Daniel's 70th week. It is a time of trouble for the sinners of the world and for Isarel to come to know her Messiah Jesus Christ. The church is not mentioned in Revelation after chapter 3, the next time they are mentioned in Revelation after chapter 3 is the General Assembly in the throne room of God where Jesus is opening the seals to begin the judgments of the Great Tribulation week.

We are God’s witnesses. If everyone else is gone, where are his true witnesses? I see that we must then incert Enoch and Elijah, or Moses into the picture to make this work. No……..We are the witnesses, those who are Christian and those Jews that claim Jesus as their Messiah. We are the candlesticks and the olive trees, not two prophets of the OT..

Re-read Revelation chapter 11. It clearly says the two witnesses are "two prophets" from the OT. Elijah the Jew and Enoch the Gentile.

Question: Do you think that the nation of Israel is holy today, or that the Temple that will be built is ordained by God in the first place?

God says He'll accept the Temple, so why shouldn't we? (Haggai 1:8). God commanded a temple to be built to Him and never cancelled that command. Secondly, only God is Holy.

How do you come to the conclusion that the church is absent after Rev. 3?

Read Revelation. The church is never mentioned after chapter 3 until we see them at the General Assembly where Jesus Christ is opening the seals of the scroll.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I will get back to you on your post this evening. Thank you for taking the time to answer all that. I am in the middle of about 5 things right now that have to be finished before I can get my thoughts together on this.

No worries, I never lose sleep over these threads. Take your time.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


1st one

Where does the Bible say that the ‘angels’ will preach the gospel to every person on earth?

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Revelation 14:6

I won't emphasize 'having' the everlasting gospel, because this is metaphor. Look at the whole chapter of Rev.14. If it starts as metaphor, it stays metaphor. For example:

Revelation 14
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

This is figurative; A lamb is not going to be standing on mount Sion with 144,000 having their fathers name written in their foreheads. Rather the Lamb is Jesus, and with him are the 144,000 that will be described in the following verses, that are under Gods protection.

We can’t skip down to verse 6 and say an angel is going to fly around the globe literally preaching the gospel. These angels that are mentioned are figurative. These 3 may be literal in heaven, but down here the scripture is describing 3 major events that will take place, and not one angel preaching, one angel broadcasting that Babylon has fallen, and one angel that is warning not to take the mark of the beast.

Before I ,move on, are you a fundamentalist? I'm not, I see Biblical things from a spiritual or metaphoric perspective unless it is clearly literal, so this could probably go on forever, just on that basis alone. I ask because you made a statement "When the plain sense of scripture makes sense seek no other sense."

I for one do not believe that at all. There are many layers to the scriptures that can only be read through the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying I have that gift (obviously not), but I did have it for a short time, many years ago. The reason I mentioned the kabbalists and 'climbing up some other way' is that they know there are layers between scriptures too, but rather than go through Jesus Christ (because their eyes have been blinded) they study mysticism (they call it the third eye, which is witchcraft) to see it in the torah.

I know that no one is Holy but God. I was trying to make the point that christian people in general have this idea that Israel is this 'Holier than thou' place. Israel is just as reprobate over there as we are over here in the US.


You did bring up some valid points like 'we are not jacob' and you are right. We are not Jacob, Romans 11 makes that clear, I realized when I went back to reference 'us being grafted in'. Do you want me to continue with the others? Will it matter if I see it metaphorically and you see it literal? Will either of us be covering any ground from the other perspective that we haven't already heard, concerning the two witnesses and such?

As far as the two witnesses go, I tend to see it metaphoric more than literal, but then again I could be wrong about that. Yes, you showed me that the scripture says 2 prophets, but outside of those two words everything else is figurative.(ie. candlesticks and the olive trees)

Haggai 1:8 in context, is not referring to the third temple. God is not commanding Israel to build the third one, Israel is.

This is the last post for me and this is the last warning! Jesus is coming back tonight. Please click on the link below. I did not create the site but someone else who was also warned by God to prepare yourself and cry out to the people. The site is very well done not like my cheesy little posts here. The message is the same. PREPARE yourself. You don't want to be left behind. It even has a countdown clock for the rapture. Please check it out.


JESUS IS COMING BACK TONIGHT

CLICK ON THE LINK ABOVE

Thanks and God Bless

Pass the popcorn please...

Please be aware of something. The posts that I had made previously were just to get you attention and wake up. I had some doctrine errors in the previous posts so please ignore those the Lord severly corrected me of them. This morning I was worken up at 3am in the morning and he directed me to the site above. The message to be ready was true because he is coming tonight Eastern Standard Time. So please be watchful and be ready. The website someone else made has the truth about this.. This is why I found it this morning and was corrected. I knew that Jesus (Yeshua) was coming back on the feast of Trumpets this week but I didn't know the exact time until this morning. I know I started out with the thread saying is it true or not you be the judge. The first part of the thread had some truth in it and some error. This is like mixing the word of God with your traditions and teachings you receive from other people. ONLY BELIEVE THE BIBLE AND GOD.

Please don't take this as a joke but a final call. Blessings.

Amen, preach it.

I am led to believe He is arriving SOOON too.

People, even if the Lord tarries, the SEASON is now.

Originally posted by itistrue
Please be aware of something. The posts that I had made previously were just to get you attention and wake up. I had some doctrine errors in the previous posts so please ignore those the Lord severly corrected me of them. This morning I was worken up at 3am in the morning and he directed me to the site above. The message to be ready was true because he is coming tonight Eastern Standard Time. So please be watchful and be ready. The website someone else made has the truth about this.. This is why I found it this morning and was corrected. I knew that Jesus (Yeshua) was coming back on the feast of Trumpets this week but I didn't know the exact time until this morning. I know I started out with the thread saying is it true or not you be the judge. The first part of the thread had some truth in it and some error. This is like mixing the word of God with your traditions and teachings you receive from other people. ONLY BELIEVE THE BIBLE AND GOD.

Please don't take this as a joke but a final call. Blessings.

edit on 10-9-2010 by itistrue because: UPDATED INFORMATION

I thought you made those errors on purpose to prove a point. Remember when I said 'I get it now'?
I thought it was a test to see who would catch on and who would simply take your word for it.
Don't worry about it. I said we were jacob. duh.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Pass the popcorn please...

Here, you can have some of mine.

(obligatory 2nd line)

Thanks for understanding. Do not believe anyman just alway be ready this was the point of this thread. thanks and God Bless. Only The Father knows the exact time when Jesus will return. Peace and Love.

Originally posted by itistrue
Thanks for understanding. Do not believe anyman just alway be ready this was the point of this thread. thanks and God Bless. Only The Father knows the exact time when Jesus will return. Peace and Love.

I'm glad to hear you say that "Don't believe any man...." There are lots of people out there that will claim to know when Jesus is coming back. They don't know. The motive is usually money. People get excited over it, throw money their way, and the lie changes or carries disclaimers. We are all learning every day, which is what we are supposed to do, which matures us in our faith. Peace.

Originally posted by itistrue
This is the last post for me and this is the last warning! Jesus is coming back tonight. Please click on the link below. I did not create the site but someone else who was also warned by God to prepare yourself and cry out to the people. The site is very well done not like my cheesy little posts here. The message is the same. PREPARE yourself. You don't want to be left behind. It even has a countdown clock for the rapture. Please check it out.


JESUS IS COMING BACK TONIGHT

CLICK ON THE LINK ABOVE

Thanks and God Bless

edit on 10-9-2010 by itistrue because: (no reason given)

I have watched the prophecy video my friend and found it beautiful work indeed.

I hope that the rapture does come tonight. I hope it with all my heart, for it is good.

With love,

Your Brother