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NHS (healthcare) Funding... Protect ? or Prune ?

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posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 08:12 AM
Hello All

In the UK we have the NHS, a shining example of Social Healthcare !

It was set up back in 1948 to offer free healthcare to all regardless of backgrounds.
It treats on average 8 Patients Per SECOND of every day of every year.

In 1948 it's budget was £437 million which would be equivalent in todays world at £9 Billion.
2008/9 NHS budget was more than £100 Billion and is forecast to hit £111 Billion this financial year.
The Budget is roughly divided up like this...........
60 - 64% is SALARIES
18 - 20% is Drugs, Medical devices, other medical supplies for procedures
18 - 20% is Buildings maintenance, equipment, training.

It employs 1.7 Million people with slightly less than HALF being Clinically Qualified....

120,000 Hospital Doctors,
40,000 General Practitioners
400,000 Nurses
25,000 Ambulance Personnel.

I read today a couple of stories that made me wonder a little....
the first was this..

NHS trusts in England spent more than £300m on external consultancy services last year, figures show

If we employ managers or other staff because of their expertise then why do they then use outside agencies to sub-contract their work and then cause additional cost ?
Do we need those managers if their skill is 'palming off' their workload elsewhere ??

Secondly was this:
Hospital consultants could see their bonuses trimmed in a review of an NHS scheme which sees some doctors receive awards of up to £76,000 a

I realize that without the skills and expertise of experienced Doctors then we are in trouble however surely they must realize that earning additional bonuses for doing a 'little' extra or even in some cases doing the same workload cannot justify an additional £76k on top of a salary normally approaching £100 k as well ??
Before I can shot down here... I have worked in the healthcare side and I have come across evidence of this...

My question really is this....

Can we really NOT touch the NHS or is there still alot of 'DEADWOOD' floating around that needs to be removed ??


PurpleDOG UK

[edit on 21-8-2010 by PurpleDog UK]

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 08:57 AM
The more I look into the reports and analyses, then more reports etc etc........... I wonder how much of this work is first duplicated by in-house and external companies?? and secondly how much of this stuff is relevant..?

I mean for ALL the time spent analyzing there seems to be an
Paralysis by Analysis going on I think...


PurpleDOG UK

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 09:23 AM
reply to post by PurpleDog UK

Interesting thread, I am starting out as a trainee nurse, after a year of working in health care and in related education. You make some very good points, the NHS cannot continue on the road we are on. Let me give you my take on this

The biggest problem is people not bothering to look after their own health, they seem to take the view that the health professionals will fix them up and then they can get back to smoking 40 a day or eating a KFC for tea every night. This problem is going to get much worse before it gets better, we have fast raising levels of dementia, diabetes, heart defects and so on. We have kids being born to parents who are not more than kids themselves but because the baby’s mother has refused to listen to the midwives and smoked, drugged and drank her way through pregnancy these babies are born ill. Unless something really radical is done at top level government, the NHS is doomed this costs way too much.

Also the Idea that the NHS isn’t undergoing cuts is a myth. I know one charge nurse who told me that they have nurse’s who are leaving but the job post isn’t being to save individual hospitals money. Rather than employing a fully trained RN they are employing HCA’s who can’t do the work a nurse can. Just recently a purpose build nursing education facility building was cancelled because the country cant afforded it.

Pay is ridiculous, as a nurse starting out I can expect a little over 20 grand, I am not joking but that is not allot for somebody going into a graduate job with a full degree working 12 hour shifts managing up 10 patients. Yet I have heard of top level doctors receiving 250 grand, they are probably well worth it but it’s not viable to keep up these costs. The problem is the NHS has to pay for some very highly trained people and you can’t pay these people pennies but at the same time you can’t pay them like footballers.

Then we have all this crap of paying for boob jobs on the NHS, paying for gastric bands, eye surgery and so on, what’s the point in that when we can’t really afford it. Why are we spending £300 million on consultants, I would bet you could get that down to £100 million if management worked as they should. Oh that’s another thing, way too many managers, we need a more decentralised NHS were patient care is put before how many paperclips are in the stationary cabinet.

Sorry for my rant.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 09:39 AM
reply to post by kevinunknown


Thanks for your reply and nice to see you posting, I noticed you had been absent recently..

Firstly I hope you succeed in your new career, like you said it is a hard environment I think which cannot be replaced by an HCA. That said I have worked with some HCA's in what I do and I can say that there are some who appear to be more caring towards the patient than some 'agency' nurses...!

Secondly you make the point about people looking after themselves more.... I applaud what you say !!! If everyone took more RESPONSIBILITY of themselves and thought through the consequences of their actions then that would dramatically reduce the burdens BUT society is full of sheep and they will never learn , I fear...

Your point about NON - urgent procedures is also true... boob jobs, reductions, sex changes, multiple fertility treatments...... they all surely come behind urgent Therapeutic procedures, don't they ?... I've heard and had the argument, sorry discussion before with decision makers who say that some of these Non urgent procedures are just as important from a 'physiological' perspective.......
I think it's time to get priorities in order and that will involve breaking a few EGO egg shells I think.......

On the subject of pay, I think that a starting salary is fair...........for all the education and training, it does not cover the EXPERIENCE you build over time. That experience allows the individual to make 'informed' decisions......
I do think there should be a pay review across the 'whole' public sector though, sorry kevinunknown, revised down on a sliding scale (low salaries less of a reduction, higher salaries a higher percentage reduction) BUT i also think in this country we reward ourselves more than we actually should. A reality check is required ACROSS THE BOARD !!!

You ain't ranting as much as me .....


PurpleDOG UK

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 09:49 AM
reply to post by PurpleDog UK

Oh don’t you worry I have been about, mostly on the UFO threads just now lol.

As much as it pains me to say it I would agree with you on the issue of pay, i would rather take a pay cut than a reduction in nursing jobs. This would be bad for both us nurses and patient care.

Also i want to make it clear I was not trying to diminish the important role of HCA’s, we wouldn’t be able to do much without them, I was just pointing out they should not be used as a substitute for RN’s.

very good thread btw!

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 10:24 AM
I am all for Health Care Assistants, I have been thinking off re-trading from engineering to NHS HCAs, It would mean going back to tech to get more qualifications, Kevin any steers for me mate..
As for the original OP IMO. There's to much top brass so to speak, I pay an average of £250.00 per month for NI, If i could only opt out and go private for that amount of money i would get good BUPA cover..

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