Retired General Slams NY 'Mosque' Critics

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler




That reminds me

It's time to remind folk that the Saudis --- by their own admission --- have spent 87 BILLION dollars on promoting the spread of Wahhabism / Islam in the West

That does not include the billions they are not admitting to


A large proportion of those Billions is being spent

on PEOPLE WHO POST FOR PAY

in forums just like this


Those who are Paid to Post are instructed on how to word their 'argument' (spelled 'persuasion')

they work with manuals

they are in constant communication

they back each other's arguments

and they star each others posts

They operate in gangs

they gang-attack anyone who threatens their 'argument'/persuasion

They boast they have the power to 'form and shape opinion'



Now, once more

The retired general is simply one voice, one vote

(and who knows whose payroll he's on ? )


The majority has spoken

LONG LIVE THE MAJORITY


and the Paid to Posts can kiss my backside with their paid-propaganda

reply to post by Dock9


Sure they do, I imagine they must have paid the General too, but the thread is not about what the Saudi's are doing friend.

The thread is about how a retired general is displeased that some Americans insist on making things more difficult for our military efforts by stereotyping all Muslims.

The fact that you don't actually have a credible source to illustrate the allegations in your post is also quite telling.

The fact that the Majority is determined at the Election Booth and not media polls seems to escape you as well.

The fact that only Congress can ammend the Constitution seems to escape you as well too.

The fact that you see a conspiracy behind people not agreeing with you is hysterical.

You might want to reread the American Constitution and the Bill of Rights again.

Thanks.





[edit on 20/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Dock9

Those who are Paid to Post are instructed on how to word their 'argument' (spelled 'persuasion')

they work with manuals

they are in constant communication

they back each other's arguments

and they star each others posts

They operate in gangs

they gang-attack anyone who threatens their 'argument'/persuasion

They boast they have the power to 'form and shape opinion'

Congradulations you have just described both the Israeli Internet Defense Force and the right wing conservative republican group that was outed on Twitter.

87 BILLION DOLLARS spent by the Saudis

on the promotion of the spread of Wahhabism / Islam !

They admitted to that


Wonder how many billions they're not admitting to ?


And gee --- 87 BILLION DOLLAR pays for a LOT of posts in forums like this by creatures prepared to betray Americans ... doesn't it ?

Of course, those creatures taking Saudi money to promote the spread of Islam are not necessarily American

even though they might be pretending to be American in forums like this



So we have BILLIONS being spent on the promotion of Islam in the West


.... at the very same time that Christianity and other non-islamic religions are being denigrated and attacked in forums just like this

Coincidence ?


It's gets worse: this forum is a being used as a free platform and medium for the denigration of Christianity *and* as a free platform & medium for the promotion of teh spread of Islam in the West !


Why are the Saudis spending BILLIONS in this way ?

For Americans' benefit ?


LOL




[edit on 20-8-2010 by Dock9]

reply to post by Dock9



To much white on the screen with all the boldness and underlining as a result unreadable. THANKFULLY!

Originally posted by Dock9

And gee --- 87 BILLION DOLLAR pays for a LOT of posts in forums like this by creatures prepared to betray Americans ... doesn't it ?

And none of them can do as much damage as those who wish to trash our constitution to justify their prejudices.

reply to post by Dock9


Well Dock that not only has no source but it's off topic.

The topic is about a retired U.S. General stating that he thinks it's unwise for Americans to be so critical on the Mosque issue.

Do you have an on topic comment in regards to that?

So please stop trolling the thread.

If you want to start a thread on your theories regarding Internet Infiltration please send me a link I would be interested in seeing other members research on this subject.

Thanks.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Dock9

 

Those who are Paid to Post are instructed on how to word their 'argument' (spelled 'persuasion')

they work with manuals

they are in constant communication

they back each other's arguments

and they star each others posts

They operate in gangs

they gang-attack anyone who threatens their 'argument'/persuasion

They boast they have the power to 'form and shape opinion'

Congratulations you have just described both the Israeli Internet Defense Force and the right wing conservative republican group that was outed on Twitter.

If these originations hadn't been outed on Twitter it wouldn't make any difference, the fact is that we have very astute and discerning members on ATS who saw through these gangs before that happened. We will never be sold short.

What's contribute to [terrorist] recruiting efforts is the US military. It's not because people don't want the Islamic community center built so close to ground zero.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



Proto, why are you having a discussion on an article of a ret. general who starts his statements off with

"It's counterproductive to paint all Muslims as part of the problem out there...

along with using the title of the thread with the word "Slams NY 'Mosque' Critics" I didn't see the word "slams" in the article, all the while you ask for people to be kind in their responses.

Why is anyone discussing anything about this article from the general?
He is blinded by grouping all opposers into a hate group.
His early statements already paint a picture of ignorance yet he is the kettle calling the pot black.

I don't understand why ATS isn't discussing HOW words are used to create anger or discord


Fond Regards,
sweetliberty

Originally posted by sweetliberty
Proto, why are you having a discussion on an article of a ret. general who starts his statements off with

"It's counterproductive to paint all Muslims as part of the problem out there...

along with using the title of the thread with the word "Slams NY 'Mosque' Critics"

I didn't see the word "slams" in the article, all the while you ask for people to be kind in their responses.

To be honest, it's not the title that I would have picked for the article. But it is the title of the article that Proto posted, and since this thread is in Breaking Alt News, he is supposed to use it.

Why is anyone discussing anything about this article from the general?
He is blinded by grouping all opposers into a hate group.
His early statements already paint a picture of ignorance yet he is the kettle calling the pot black.

I don't think he's grouping all opposers into a hate group; where did you see that?

It is undeniable that some (not all, but many) of the opposition to the mosque are doing exactly what the general says -- painting all Muslims as part of the problem.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
and I can almost guarantee you one thing.
If the mosque is built and opens. There will be
24/7 FBI Surveillance on the facility to see who
comes and goes. That alone leads one to believe
that THEY don't trust them either !!!!

If we only decided to construct buildings/homes that the government absolutely trusted enough not to have some level of surveillance around and demolish the ones they didn't, the only structures we'd have standing would be governmental.

They'd also bug those buildings too.

- Lee

It is amusing to still hear the cries of the opponents arguing that it is a slap in the face of our countrymen and fallen service members when some of the biggest proponents have been military men and women who have actually sacrificed overseas in this continuing "war on terrorism" (myself included). Is it just me or are the racist and ethnocentric individuals of this nation exposing themselves and their ignorance more and more by the day? Palin supporting that Dr. Laura [snip] and her idiotic comments. Bishmallah, one day we will all learn that a very small percentage of idiots is responsible for all this suffering and conflict, then there will be peace between religions and cultures.


And mods, you can teach an old dog new tricks, I "[snip]"ed myself


[edit on 20-8-2010 by Shark VA84]

reply to post by sweetliberty


Why don't you try pressing the link to the article and go to the article, where you will see that is the TITLE OF THE ARTICLE.

Further, ATS Terms of Service for BREAKING ALTERNATIVE NEWS does NOT ALLOW for article titles TO BE CHANGED.

ATS itself allows for posters to do their own HIGH QUALITY RESEARCH where had you actually visited the article you would have realized that the title of the Article is the title of the Article.

Now having said that, if you would like to post something on topic please do.

The article is not about how you feel about Muslims, Christians, Goeffers or Sea Urchins, the article is about whether it is wise to consider that in a War that it's important to win hearts and minds.

That a General actually tasked with winning those hearts and minds previously in Iraq thinks the inflamatory rhetoric is BAD and NOT HELPFULL.

You would either agree with that statement or disagree with that statement, on topic would be why you think it would help win hearts and minds, or why you don't think it will win hearts and minds.

reply to post by americandingbat


Your correct americandingbat, I was reading the article and negelcted to look up at the title. I just woke up and my coffee isn't kicking in quick enough. Thanks for showing me that.

Btw, thats exactly what I respect about you, you explain mistakes instead of attacking them, thank you again.

Early on the general states

"You don't want to turn [Muslims] into the enemy because we generalize on everything that happened on 9/11."

It implies "all" imo since he doesn't specify but only to say "you".

This implies "people" are "alienating them"

Eaton said he understands the importance of winning over people as opposed to alienating them.

It's every bit as important in the United States to make sure Muslim citizens are not viewed as the enemy, he said, but that's what some in the media and politics are doing.

This seems to imply citizens already view Muslim citizens as the enemy.

It just seems to me to be that those extremists who wish the mosque to be built are constantly grouping those who oppose into a hate group.

I see the use of words implying too much from the start.

Thanks,
sweetliberty

reply to post by sweetliberty


It may seem that way, but it is not extremists building the mosque, it is Muslims.

Making fear-based decisions is a cowardly way to go about living imo of course.

Most of the practitioners of Islam are very normal, friendly and productive people. Normal not in terms of their cultural norms compared to those in the United States of America, but in the fact that most just want to raise a family, live peacefully and better understand and serve their creator.

I've traveled extensively throughout the Arab World, some military commissioned, some personal, but I came to understand Arab culture in a way I never thought would be possible. Islam is as legitimate a religion as any, we can not let a few jerk-offs who happen to practice Islam smear the entirety of a religion or culture(s).

I'm thrilled to see the friendly, mature and truly inquisitive approach you and everyone else seems to be taking in this thread. Though demonized domestically in the media and thus our social circles, Arabic men and women have treated me with hospitality and friendship that rivals any on this planet. Though I have much more reading, researching and learning to do on the religion, Islam is as beautiful and tolerant a religion as any out there, if practiced as such. All religions, hell, systems of belief have the innate ability to be exploited for violence and personal gain, and they have, but we must remember the oft-forgotten positive it brings to this planet and its inhabitants. To hear the Qu'ran read in Arabic, even with an extremely limited understanding of the language, is beautiful enough to bring a combat-hardened man to tears.

This Mosque poses no greater threat near ground zero than it does on the other side of the city. In the humble opinion of this man, its construction would be an extremely powerful and confident statement of who we are as a nation. You can hurt us, scare us, whatever is your will, but we will not be ignorant enough to turn into a cowering bunch of misinformed pushovers. The mosque would represent our ability to look beyond the terrorist face of Islam in America and show our true colors. Nothing makes me happier than living in a land where you can experience 100 different cultures in the same geographical area.

My .02 of course

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Shark VA84]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto, throughout your posts you use “I think” or

Are we as worried about Islamic sensativities as we are our own, bearing in mind, we are tring to convince so many of them 'ours' is a better way of life?

I think what your U.S. Soldier friends are displaying...

The fact that you see a conspiracy behind people not agreeing with you is hysterical.

Fact or opinion?

Now having said that, if you would like to post something on topic please do.

I am on topic just as you are Proto. Since when is asking questions or engaging in this discussion off topic?

Thanks,
sweetliberty

Originally posted by Shark VA84
reply to post by sweetliberty

 

Making fear-based decisions is a cowardly way to go about living imo of course.
[edit on 20-8-2010 by Shark VA84]

Watch out you may be accused of going off topic there )

Why are you assuming I'm making fear-based decisions?

There are many reasons why people oppose this.

Thanks,
sweetliberty

reply to post by sweetliberty


I'm sorry, I didn't mean to direct that comment solely at you. Much of the argument that I have been presented by opponents of the Mosque's construction have been based on the element of danger this mosque represents. I would be willing to bet my savings account that 99% of the Muslims and non-Muslims who would make use of this Mosque/Facility are not, and never will be extremists. It's a fear-based decision to block the building of the Mosque in that respect. If you do not hold this position then I apologize for the assumption, I should have set up my line of thought in a more productive manner.

I certainly am not trying to attack you regardless, just throwing out my thoughts/experiences/opinions on the subject at-hand. I just find it hard to come up with a reasonable and logical ban on the construction. I am always happy to hear your opinion(s) though, as I learn something from (almost) every post here.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Shark VA84]

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Shark VA84]

reply to post by Shark VA84

I'm thrilled to see the friendly, mature and truly inquisitive approach you and everyone else seems to be taking in this thread. Though demonized domestically in the media and thus our social circles, Arabic men and women have treated me with hospitality and friendship that rivals any on this planet.

You probably know what it is like to be adopted as and addressed as 'cousin'.

The truth is that once you are accepted as a friend, and friendships are typically here, as well as there based entirely upon mutual respect, Muslims are feircely loyal to their friends.

Does not matter if you are a Muslim or not, it just matters that they see you as a friend, and a friend who respects them. They will take the shirt off their back, give you their last dollar, and traipse along to the gates of hell with you and back if you ask.

They are very gracious hosts and have a fairly strict code regarding manners.

For instance the recent story that made the news of a Special Forces Commander in Iraq 'surrendering himself' to a greiving Muslim father, who had lost his entire family to an American Military action.

The Special Forces Commander had heard that he was considering becoming a suicide bomber, so as local Afghani Custom dictated he showed up to his home, to surrender himself to the man's justice carrying a lamb as a gift, that is part of this custom.

The custom dictates any man who has offended you who appologizes in such a way must be foregiven, and the man foregave the Special Forces Commander and extended foregiveness and changed his mind regarding taking retalitation against U.S. Forces, because he was bound by that custom.

So in reality approaching dialouge through customary terms as opposed to dictating how people should behave towards you, can make a huge difference in how you are welcome and how you are treated.

Now this might seem arcane to some people, but honestly ask yourself this, if you had lost your entire family on 9-11 like this man lost his entire family to American bombs, and the person responsible for that showed up on your door with a lamb and surrendered himself to you, could you, would you forgive them.

They in fact will, so what exactly is America's excuse for wanting to hold all of the Muslim world for the actions of 19 men, with NO path to foregiveness?