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True Capitalism has been dead for a long time, Commercial Oligarchy rules in the present.

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posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:50 AM
It is so sad how many people seem to just walk in line when they are told we are becoming a socialistic society, as if we ever embraced the true concepts of laissez-faire capitalism. We are now neither socialistic nor capitalistic, it’s all a charade. Adam Smith, who many consider to be the father of capitalism, wrote five books entitled “The Wealth of Nations”. Smith’s thesis is just a much a criticism of maritime mercantilism as it was an idea of bringing a free market economy to the world. In Smith’s books he repeatedly criticizes how so much of the world’s wealth was being controlled by just a few large trading companies. Sounds un-cannily familiar does it not?

Capitalism and Communism have one very unique commonality; neither has ever truly been put into practice. Communism evolved into a way for the very elite to fool the masses into a belief all would be given to equally, while the reality became a complete dictatorship, forcing the elimination of the middle classes, causing mass impoverishment. Capitalism has been used by TPTB with a similar myth: that we all have an equal chance to move up or down the ladder of success. However, over the last few decades capitalism has died an unnoticed death. The current world economy is surrounded around marketing techniques which are focused on the public purchasing items which are far below their presented values, while being produced in third world nations often by very impoverished people resembling an early 20th century sweat shop, under either forced indentured labor or even child labor, and no one seems to care, as long as they can save a buck on their I-pod! Believe it or not there was a time when people believed items had an equal value to the labor production it took to make that item.

My grandfather told me once the difference from his generation and my generation is that his generation had what he called “consumer discipline”. What did that mean? He said NO matter how cheap an item was; one, if it wasn’t made in America his generation wouldn’t buy it, and two, if it didn’t have a union label his generation wouldn’t give two cents for it, no matter how great the product (labor unions use to work well at the local level, it was the national offices which destroyed the trust most Americans had in them). However, at the present time the world is dominated by multi-national corporations who seem to be only concerned with the profits they can make in the here and now, while convincing the overwhelming general public organized labor is inheritably evil, even though labor unions are the last vestige which still promotes to “make it here, and buy it here in America”. There is no doubt historically labor unions, when they dominated the landscape the middle class was vibrant and growing, and contrastingly when their national offices started to become corrupt they should have been reformed, but instead the commercial oligarchies seized the moment to end the dominance of organized labor.

Historically,entrepreneurs use to invest into the future, now they are only concerned on how to continually inflate their daily stock portfolios, with no concern what their actions will do to future generations. How can we resurrect capitalism from the death chamber controlled by the commercial oligarchies? True capitalism lies in the small business owners; until we learn this we will be destined to be ruled by the multi-national commercial oligarchies of the present. While true capitalism will continue to lay dead in the grave. However, even if a very charismatic and strong leader demanded the breakup of these large style commercial oligarchies, (which uncannily resemble the mercantile trading companies of the 18th century), could you imagine the public relation resistance by these multi-national commercial oligarchies? Within a week that said individual would be transformed from a person with great ideas to the most vilest person ever born on the face of the Earth.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:50 AM
As long as these powers that be continue the fight to keep the world segmented and divided along economic, cultural, and social issues we cannot even begin to turn the tide. But I do think a simple thing we could all agree on no matter where your stance is politically, religiously, or culturally. How about this: we just start practicing a little of a new found 21st century “consumer discipline”? Stop purchasing items made by slave or indentured workers, if you can find an item of similar fashion made in America just for a few more dollars purchase that one, if you invest do not give a cent to any of these corrupted commercial oligarchies invest your finances into small business owners.

One thing history has taught me all things go in a circular pattern. Historically whenever the few amassed too much of the world’s wealth the general populace would always find a way to balance the scales. As an historian, I am a mere watcher, a recorder of events, I am no economist, and my aforementioned idea of consumer discipline, along with a call to active citizenship is pretty much it for my ideas. I am curious to hear what other ideas people may have. My hope is the focus of most of the replies will not be the same decade’s old finger pointing of whose fault it is, but a presentation of new ideas with vibrant possibilities would be ideal.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 09:15 AM
A very well done thread, I think everyone here should read it. As far as our current system, I like to call it socio-fascism, incorporating a little of both, which makes it resemble neither. In true capitalism, the markets are free and regulate themselves. The consumer dictates supply and demand. Instead, what we have today is the corporations manipulating and the government regulating the market as to benefit the corporations in its favor. Instead of the consumer deciding the direction of the market, the market, at the hands of those manipulating it, is deciding the direction of the consumer.

These days, we have the government showing certain interests favor, thus making it anything but a free market. Many up-starts are being regulated out of the market and it isn't up to the consumer to decide.

What we need, is true free-market economy, based on a decentralized free-market that is regulated by the consumers and the market itself. What we need, is "Austrian School" economics, as opposed to the Keynesian model that we are currently operarting with.

As long as we have the government regulating the market and corporate interests influencing the government that is supposed to regulate them, we will never have true free-market capitalism and the people ultimately lose. Unfortunately, most people will go along blindly beliving that we do have a capitalist economy based on free-markets and that is the most scary thing of all. They will complain about socialism, as if the government is turning or swaying towards socialism but in a socialist society, it is the public who holds ownership of the market and that is clearly not what we have, nor are we even close to smelling such a concept. If anything, it is the market who has ownership of the people and I think we all know who owns the market.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free" --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


****Edited to add several paragraphs.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by airspoon]

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 09:49 AM
reply to post by airspoon

But how do we change it, how can the middle class become the driving force, how can we end the endlessly excess of wealth just to satisfy the extreme leisurely abuses of such a few elite? One thing I truly believe it will change......robin always ends up taking back from the rich so to speak, and another thing history has taught me nothing lasts forever, even those powers that be think they have us all huddled in our corners, things will change, or do you think it's going to get worse before it gets better?

I really think the lesson my grandfather taught me about consumer discipline needs to be remembered, reinvented or taught, in addition, I think there is not enough people who are active citizens in their own communities. I go to town council meetings, I go to commissioner meetings, I go to school board meetings, I write my representatives constantly, I think too many people have become preverbal bumps on a log, and do nothing. It is almost like they have all given up, accepted their bondage, and became complacent, scares the life out of me!!

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 09:53 AM
I have not read anything by Adam Smith, but I have the same sentiments about our economy/culture/society.

I think you would enjoy (as I did) Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal by Ayn Rand. She offers what I consider a unique history of American/world capitalism. One of her main points is that those that criticize capitalism have never really seen a true (100%) capitalistic economy. She offers proof that this true capitalism has never existed, it has always been a pseudo/partial capitalism that has caused the problems that most people blame on capitalism such as monopolies. She shows how some of the famous historical monopolies were granted power and favors from the government which enabled them.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 10:13 AM
reply to post by BenIndaSun

Doing some quick research on it, looks interesting I love reading books about social, political and cultural ideas from the 60s, there were so many different perspectives from people who lived during the same time period. A quote I found from the book, “Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. The recognition of individual rights entails the banishment of physical force from human relationships: basically, rights can be violated only by means of force. In a capitalist society, no man or group may initiate the use of physical force against others. The only function of the government, in such a society, is the task of protecting man’s rights, 'i.e., the task of protecting him from physical force; the government acts as the agent of man’s right of self-defense, and may use force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use; thus the government is the means of placing the retaliatory use of force under objective control.” I find this quote quite interesting, because if you replace the word of government with that of corporate oligarchy you would pretty much have what we have now, it is almost from this perspective from that time period until now the government either relinquished control or was forced into becoming the puppet of those who now control the politicians in Washington and other governments. I have always maintained when people point fingers at the government, it is not my intention to deny their rightful blame, but we as a society should be more concerned about the ones behind those individuals, the ones who fund their campaigns, the ones who keep the status quo in place, the ones who are the true benefactors of the true commercial oligarchy.

In addition, I noticed Alan Greenspan speaks in some of the essays, Lord knows I’m no fan of him, but it would be interesting to see what he believed in the 60s and compare it to what he actually did.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 12:12 PM
I agree. Politicians get much of the blame, including Obama, that they deserve but only for accepting what others "behind to shadows" tell them. If I'm not mistaken, most of Obama's time is giving speeches. I think it's rare that he has "free time" to actually think about policies and actions. The ones thinking we don't really know, and we'll never see.

Alan Greenspan then and now is like light and day. He morally sold out along the way. It's ironic his three essays in the book are "Antitrust", "Gold and Economic Freedom", and "The Assault on Integrity".

I'm glad to read your posts and know there is another mind that sees this the same way.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 01:35 PM
Is Commercial Oligarchy another fancy name for Fascism ??

Fascism according to Mussolini is when corporations and government merge as one.

All the sheep parroting "capitalism has failed" should be saying "fascism has failed".

Obushma = Fascism = Pirates of Wall Street

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 01:38 PM
Corporatism, Commercial oligarchy, whatever else they choose to call it is all capitalism. The means of production are privately owned and the entire enterprise is run for a profit. The idea of replacing such a word as capitalism with anything else does not make any sense to me at all.

What is the agenda behind using commercial oligarchy instead of capitalism?

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 01:46 PM

Originally posted by AmosGraber
if you can find an item of similar fashion made in America just for a few more dollars purchase that one

I don't think you could these days.
So what to do next.
S&F btw.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 02:20 PM
reply to post by zzombie

I think this point by point breakdown of fascism by Dr. Lawrence Britt (a political scientist) is pretty close to accurate. Fascism in its simplest definition is basically extreme nationalism. It is the dichotomy to communism. Communism is on the extreme left, while fascism is on the extreme right; Those who run the commerical oligarchies use these concepts to keep us all acting like gregarious sheep walking in line into their den of wolves. How many can you check off as being part of our current countries political belief system?:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by AmosGraber]

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 02:20 PM
reply to post by zzombie

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

How many of these points does America fall under?

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 02:28 PM
The Marketn was the appendage to capitalism and can just as equally be used to explain all of the points made. The free market was never ever really free as the first thing that the marketeers did was to try to exterminate the competition by fair means or foul.

Captialism was nation based but has now gone transnational or multinational

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 02:34 PM
What we have is a system that was destroyed by people trying to put a free market system of deregulation into place. By eliminating the laws that prevent widespread fraud in our investment markets, free market idealists like Gingrich created an environment that encourage fraud, leading to the destruction of what was at the time, a strong growing economy in the mid nineties.

The ideal of a a self regulating free market is simply unrealistic. It does not exist, and it never will.

Part of governments responsibility in protecting the rights of man, is preventing fraud. This means that government must write laws that prevent businesses from doing certain things, like claiming their products can do things which they can not. This also includes holding businesses responsible for the damage they create, whether those result from sending workers unknowingly into extremely dangerous situations, or poisoning our environment.

A big part of our current problems is our governments failure to conduct treaties that are fair to the U.S. public. Instead, we have treaties that work completely in favor of the ICs.

We all agree that competitive markets create efficiency, but we are not going to have competitive markets until a fair set of rules are established, and then evenly enforced, for example, as in professional sports.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by poet1b]

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 02:42 PM
reply to post by poet1b

Wow I actually agree with you! Yes and Regan was responsible for the deregulation of the financial sector that led to the financial engineers of products that most people did not understand and recently generated the financial crisis.

Well put.

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 02:49 PM
reply to post by AmosGraber

One thing that needs to be done is to eliminate the stock market ESPECIALLY the forced investment of the 401(k).

Consider this: a corporation can take action that is directly harmful to the domestic/local economy (i.e. massive outsourcing of jobs), and the average person on the street can see an uptick in their relatively paltry stock portfolio and feel good about the actions taken by said corporation.

The entire stock market is a distorting factor on the economy causing people to look at indicator and numbers that have nothing to do with the creation or maintenance of widespread domestic prosperity as signs of "economic health/recovery".

The consumer discipline you describe is ideal but nearly impossible. Just think of all the patriotic Union-supporting members of the middle to lower class who can only afford to shop at Wal-Mart . . . approximately 85% of Wal-Mart's good are made overseas. 10% of all Chinese imports are sold through Wal-Mart. Yet the same people who are walking out of their with their carts full of cheap Chinese goods will be the first to wonder why the big bad government is destroying our economy.

There are not enough good paying jobs left in this country to have a large base of consumers who can AFFORD to buy American. Thus the vicious circle is set . . .

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 03:05 PM
The value of human work is equal to ZERO, because of machine work.

what is the problem ?

How humans get "money" ? to buy food, and stuff


You create your dream : an "eden" where real work doesn't exist : you just have to accept it : and EVOLVE

We need economic PEACE !

The economic war has ENDED

We can accept outside problems. : but It is time for the economic peace INSIDE our countrys.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by psychederic]

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 03:08 PM
How come everybody sitting around here always gripes and complains about how unfair the situation is ....

Quit bitching !!! save your money, apply for grants, start your own business, and make as much money as you can!! quit working for a company that doesnt give a crap about you at all!!! quit working for minimum wage ect

If you really want it bad enough you will do it
if you dont just dont want it bad enough!! or
you would rather bitch about being broke all the time

Im also tired of all these people still on un-employment
go get a frikin job and shut up work 2 jobs if you have too

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 03:16 PM
reply to post by StumpDrummer

I 'd like to see your face when you realize that every job you think you can do : is done more efficiently with robot and AI


[edit on 20-8-2010 by psychederic]

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 03:32 PM
reply to post by psychederic

Who does the maintenance and programming on the robots ....go get that job if you want

i dont see a robot doing my job ever as a contractor I have to promote my job/jobs myself

I also dont feel sorry for all these people crying about losing their homes ect. I didnt make you go buy a house you couldnt afford in the first place
and weve been living broke in louisiana since...forever
Seems like everyone above the masondixon line has been given everything they wanted for way too long Maybe its time you had to live with just what you need

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