''I did not come to bring peace,but a sword''

Matthew 10:34-36 ''Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth;I did not come to bring peace but a sword.For i came to set a man against his father and a daughter against her mother and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law and a mans enimies will be the members of his own household''.I was reading this chapter in Matthew this morning and these particular verses stuck out to me.When i was growing up i was always taught that Jesus was the Prince of Peace and even throughout scripture he teaches people to ''love your neighbor as you love yourself'' and ''pray for your enimies''.Yet this statement seesms contradictory to everything else.So fellow ATS members what are your opinions/beliefs/interpratations on what this scripture means?I am anxious to hear from everybody not just christians.

reply to post by I Want To Believe


You will find He brings everlasting peace in Revelation, however, in order to make this a reality for the remainder of eternity he first must wipe every nation off the face of the Earth committed to unrighteousness and war.

The cornerstone seems the stumbling block for many, the seeker, the undecided, the denier, all but the advocate can believe or feel their life has nothing to do with Jesus.

I like Luke 12:49-51, which covers the same concept.

'I came to set fire to the earth and I wish it were already on fire! I am going to be put to a hard test. And I will have to suffer a lot of pain until it is over. Do you think that I came to bring peace to earth? No indeed! I came to make people choose sides.' (Contempory English Version)

When I was still only 'penciled in' ie, my path had come to the contemplation of Jesus but I had yet to meet the Christ, I encountered a lot of opposition within the family. One family member's response to my speaking of finding a faith and that faith being Christian was, 'Are you saying you are superior to meeeee?!!!!' (I replied 'no, but I am saying God is.' It did not go down well but the subject was quickly dropped!)

Jesus represents or is the deepest challenge to the self, the ego. Those who have not reliquished self seem most likely to rise up in indignation against Him or His divinity, even as they proclaim Him as an example of how to live, or as an ideal to aspire to!

Personally, I think a lot of non-believers are jealous of Jesus! They perceive His power and their ego cries out in protest that such power is not theirs.

no teapot nonbelievers aint jealous. they either lik lust too much to convert or have misunderstanding that heaven is boring. alot rebel because of those two things. I'm not talking about all non believers, just certain ones.

imo.

but anyways I agree with notyourtypical. first cleansing must be done for true peace to exist.



[edit on 20-8-2010 by JesusisTruth]

Jesus is the second horseman.

red for fire
taking peace from the land

and did not Christianity bring the sword?
i don't mean the sword of truth
i mean the sword of war, ravage and killing.

in the name of GOD the crusades took place
we also committed the worse genocide in human history supposedly in the name of christianizing the "heathen" peoples native to this continent.

:shk:

now, i'm not knocking Jesus.
he's my best friend.

but he isn't always properly understood as to what his role is and was.

there's a lot more to it that the standard cut and dried he-came-and-died christian theology.

The Sword is a metaphor for the Word of God.

He came to bring the Word of God and it is a fiery double edged sword that turns every which way to keep the Way.

In Revelation, this double edged sword came out of the mouth of God, in other words, the Word of God out of the mouth of God.

I feel like that passage is describing the effects that will inevitably occur as the result of a new way being introduced. For example, if you read on in verses 38-39 Jesus says, "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. "

There are other seemingly paradoxical verses like this elsewhere in the Bible. Basically, I think there are two things to consider 1) the philosophy expounded by Jesus in the gospels & 2) commentary on the adoption of this philosophy by humanity. In one sense, there is the message of Jesus which is essentially introducing humanity to a new paradigm including concepts like selflessness, detachment from certain temporal concerns, etc. The verse you quoted is commentary on the practical consequences of this philosophy being introduced, as it represents a radical shift.

Note: I realize that the novelty of some aspects of Jesus' teachings can be disputed (e.g. the golden rule). I'm just giving my interpretation for the meaning of the verse within the context of the gospels.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Thank you for your opinion NOTurTypical.I find it to be both interesting and enlightening.So just to get it straight you believe that those verses in Matthew,Jesus is referring to the end times and ''armageddon''?

reply to post by teapot


Personally in my experience of preaching the Gospel i find the most common reason people resist the message is that they do not like being convicted and challenged.People tend to like the easy do-whatever-i-want-with-no-consequences-and-challenges type of lifestyle.Though i usually only encounter this problem in America.Unless someone is willing to ''crucify their flesh'' and pick up their cross and follow Jesus they will not make a very effective christian.I am still curious to know though what your perspective is concerning those verses in Matthew and Luke.What do you think they mean?What is Jesus referring to?

reply to post by queenannie38


I have no idea what Bible you have been reading but in my Bible it says its Jesus the Lamb who was slain that breaks the seal and its an angel or ''living creature'' on a red horse that brings war to the earth.No christianity did not bring the sword.Supposed christians using Jesus and the Bible for their own purposes and gains brought the sword.People whose greed and lust for power and money used religion as a reason to make war and to steal and plunder.They brought the sword and they used Gods Word to further their own agenda and used it as a tool to commit mass genocide.If there is more to the story than what is in Scripture please enlighten me.If you know something we dont, please share with the rest of the class.I for one am anxious to hear your story.

reply to post by I Want To Believe


Yes, ultimately it's very prophetic in nature, especially when you read in Revelation that people will turn weapons of war into plowshares after Armageddon. When all His enemies are destroyed there will be everlasting peace. But He also means that being not part of the world, the world would hate Christians because it first hated Him.

virtually everything the Lord says has meaning for those at the time spoken, but also throughout the church age. I believe God's timing is not linear but circular.

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."

Ecclesiastes 1:9



[edit on 20-8-2010 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by iamnot


Thank you for posting your opinion.In a sense i agree with you.I personally believe that the sword that Jesus is talking about is the Word of God.Scripture tells us that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood so i believe that this sword is not a natural one as in one made of steel.I believe that the sword Jesus is talking about is a spiritual one.Scripture also tells us that we do wrestle against principalities and powers and the rulers of darkness.I think that is what the sword Jesus mentioned is for.I believe that our battle is a spiritual battle and our weapon is the sword, the living Word of God.

reply to post by I Want To Believe


That is true, but also there will be war against the nations of disobedience in the future, a real war, and a real physical peace on Earth. It's both. Remember, when the lord returns it will not be as the Lamb of God, but the LION of the tribe of Judah.



[edit on 21-8-2010 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by Superbus


Thank you for opinion.Please explain in greater detail your interpratation of this Scripture in Matthew.I found your post to be quite fascinating so please expound in greater detail your opinion.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Thank you for your knowledge and wisdom.I completely agree with you.There will for certain one day be a great war that will engulf the planet.My point is that we are called to fight the Accuser of the Bretheren not each other.Our battle is with Satan and his angels.So let us put on the armour of God so that we can exstinguish the fiery arrows of the evil one.

reply to post by I Want To Believe


I agree with 99% of what you said, but there are instances when we are to rebuke the "wolves" also. We are to treat the sheep with tenderness, but not the wolves.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


True there are times when we must rebuke the wolves but we must also remember that it is the principality behind them that is influencing them.We must also rebuke them in love and not anger for love turneth away wrath.We must also remember that we are all Gods children not just we christians.Love is patient and kind and it hopes and endures all things.So let us be like Jesus and be about the Fathers business.

You just shown us how little you really know about history. The Holy Land had been conquered by islamic military forces almost 4 centuries before. the crusades were a belated attempt to wrest control of former CHRISTIAN lands from a FOREIGN invader. What sparked them was the mistreatment of Christian pilgrims by a new Islamic regime. The Crusades were a belated fight to turn back the tide of the same muslim onslaught that conquered Zoroastian Persia in 17 years. Most Christians of the Levant converted because it was easier to survive as a muslim in a muslim land than as a christian. A christian or a jew could only be 2d class citizens. How well they were treated depended entirely on which caliph was in power. Why do you think the dominant religion in Turkey is islam? Becasue it was conquered. That is not to say the crusaders were nice guys. none was a nice guy when it came to warfare back then. They gave back to the muslims what southern europe had received in spades. Don't forget, the crusades not only included the Holy Land but it also included Spain. Spanish nobility were excused from the Levantian crusades because the various popes saw the reconquista as part of a broader crusade to free former christian lands from muslim domination. Muslim raiders scoured the Med for a thousand years, demanding tribute and taking slaves from as far away as england. They destroyed culture after culture and left only faints remnants of the indigenous cultures. Did you know Afghanistan was Hindu and heavily influenced by Buddhism? Pakistan was Hindu, Baluchisatn. What remains of the original cultures? Nothing. Go to South America today and you will still find the indigenous cultures alive and relativel well. It was against the koran to enslave a fellow muslim but christians (and anybody else) were fair game so as many as 2 million europeans were enslaved by raids along the med and as far north as england. Islam attempted to conquer all of europe until was finally defeated at the gates of Vienna in 1683. The predations against India continued until the 1800's. The devastation of the first people in the americas was caused primarily by infectious diseases they had no immunity against. The only place that conversion played a part was south america. And the church and the king of spain condemned it and forbade. Unfortunately for the indigenous the spanish colonies were too far away from spain and royal control for any control to be exercised.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Jesus is the second horseman.

red for fire
taking peace from the land

and did not Christianity bring the sword?
i don't mean the sword of truth
i mean the sword of war, ravage and killing.

in the name of GOD the crusades took place
we also committed the worse genocide in human history supposedly in the name of christianizing the "heathen" peoples native to this continent.

:shk:

now, i'm not knocking Jesus.
he's my best friend.

but he isn't always properly understood as to what his role is and was.

there's a lot more to it that the standard cut and dried he-came-and-died christian theology.

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by teapot

 

I am still curious to know though what your perspective is concerning those verses in Matthew and Luke.What do you think they mean?What is Jesus referring to?

These verses convince me that Jesus was self aware and knew full well that his words would impact heavily upon the listener. He also revealed his awareness of the human heart, how easily we will choose to contend, to enter conflict and that conflict often leads to deeper understanding and in some cases spiritual or ethical growth.

The verses demonstrate his prescient understanding of the human response to the slaughter of innocence, be the response one of a loving heart or otherwise.

Every verse ascribed to the Life and Works of Jesus works on so many levels that it is unsuprising there is so much disagreement and dissent, even amongst those who are born again. The only understanding I have ever found for this is that Jesus personifies a personal god who meets each of us individually, where we are at and ministers to our individual need that is individually relevant.

I believe the verse Mathew 10:34-36 is talking about a spiritual sword that divides one person from another, because of their belief in Jesus. From the family perspective, if a son or daughter tells their biological Father, (who is an unbeliever) that he/she is now a follower Jesus and that they now have a new Father, who is in heaven, then this is naturally going to create friction.

In modern times, people who come to a belief in Jesus, may often find themselves being ridiculed, sometimes even by close friends.

John 15:18-19
If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

The above verse sheds more light on the reason why Jesus brings a sword, because non believers don’t understand why we don’t love and embrace worldly things, like they do and so they reject, hate and ridicule us, and maybe to some degree, they think that there is something wrong with us. But like Jesus said, they hate us because we do not belong to this world.

Jesus words in the bible also convict us and when you really start to read the bible, you begin to realize that it gets you to look deep inside yourself and question your own life. This is something that most people find hard to do because it is much easier to reject it and enjoy the things of this world.


- JC