BLM Killing More Wild Horses (despite Congressional letter

to all the people who are reading this thread and wonder what the point of killing all the Mustangs is

please read my thread More Misery for Mustangs www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have included a ton of info there and if there is any info or questions to answered after reading it please tell me
and I will fill in the blanks

rather than post all of this over again

I do have some ideas about how to turn up the heat on BLM

a whistle blower hotline might be one way remember this doesn't only happen in Nevada!

reply to post by PieKeeper


Pie Keeper a short daytrip to the La Brea tar pits in downtown LA woudls be all that needed to prove that your entire fabricated theory on the origins of horses exists only in your head

I have been there and I know a thing or two about horses

so the 'precursor" of horses was surprise a Horse! just like our Mustang !

from Los Angles no less!

even if you don't want to believe people who care about horses why not at least believe the fossil record!


I actually believe that all the horses didn't die out and when the Spanish released Their horses they interbreed and that some of our Mustangs are an unbroken line of descent from the horse that has always been here

so do many other people and there are direct accounts of horses living in South America as little as 100 hundred years before the Arrival of the Spaniards

I have seen things in the course of my history with horses that leads me to believe this

you cherry pick your so called scientific sources to reflect what you and your agenda want

why don't you tell us who was conducting the small furry animal study you were participating in ?just curious

The West was won off the backs of horses.

How soon we forget.

How can it be that Cattle companies can have so much leverage over Congress, The Senate, The White house?

What power do these cattle companies have? over whom? is it bribery? or is it blackmail?

The news footage here in the UK was on channel 4 and failed to mention the cattle at all!!!

Why are the US establishment allowing the reduction of wild mustangs to what will be, their absolute genetic minimum? when they are supposedly conservationists? so many things wrong with this picture!

reply to post by Cosmic4life


In the nineteenth century it would have been the cattle barons, and/or the railroads... Now? It's mineral exploitation by which ever company you care to mention.

cool

There dose need to be more public awareness about whats going on here. I just signed a petition on this very subject. If anyone is interested here is the Link.

Horses are a symbol of freedom, power, and beauty. Especially the Wild Mustangs. For this to be happening in the US is just shameful! And I hope BLM pays for this.

[edit on 17-8-2010 by earthmagick12]

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
Pie Keeper a short daytrip to the La Brea tar pits in downtown LA woudls be all that needed to prove that your entire fabricated theory on the origins of horses exists only in your head

so the 'precursor" of horses was surprise a Horse! just like our Mustang !

I didn't say they weren't horses, and as far as I know, I'm right in saying that horses (the genus equus) originated in the Americas. I have no idea what "fabricated theory" you're referring to.

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
I actually believe that all the horses didn't die out and when the Spanish released Their horses they interbreed and that some of our Mustangs are an unbroken line of descent from the horse that has always been here

I have seen things in the course of my history with horses that leads me to believe this

Is there any actual evidence to support your beliefs on this?

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
you cherry pick your so called scientific sources to reflect what you and your agenda want

Cherry pick my scientific sources? In the other thread, I provided multiple scientific studies to support my claims. In your efforts to refute my claims, you provided none that were relevant to the actual claims that I was making.

And what exactly is my agenda?

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
why don't you tell us who was conducting the small furry animal study you were participating in ?just curious

It was just a survey done by students to see what species inhabited a tract of land. It was mostly just an exercise/demonstration.

Cherry pick my scientific sources? In the other thread, I provided multiple scientific studies to support my claims. In your efforts to refute my claims, you provided none that were relevant to the actual claims that I was making. And what exactly is my agenda?

you provided two I read them, I posted a least a half a dozen and said you didn't read them because you didn't think they were credible sources


as to my reason for thinking that that there are remnants of the former herds , I thought ,and believed that they had died until too until until I saw the three horses I spoke about in another thread

I was pretty sure at the time that they were originals ,I spent quite a bit of time with them trained and rode them ,I was a horse trainer for 20 years and I have ridden and seen enough horses donkeys and mules to know another species ,or sub species when I see it. That was a long time ago before DNA testing

many years later I was at an exotic animal fair and saw some three toed ungulates that I was completely taken a back by I asked what they were and I was told they were agouti,but they weren't agouti

nor were they rodents what they most resembled was the first horse in the evolution of the horse charts,

I have been reading in various books accounts of the earliest human experiences with horses ancient Greek Assyrian

I wrote previously of reading from a journal written by one of the first Conquistadors to reach Paraguay ,who had to ask the Indians there why they weren't amazed to see horses and the man told him that was because they lived in his area in his grandfathers day but all died of a disease that puts American horses in existence in the early 1400's

that and the fact that nobody does know the evolutionary history of the horses or how or when they were domesticated

I don't actually think they are truly domestic , they revert to the wild more readily than any animal I've seen , release one that you've ridden every day for years in a open range situation ,and then just try to walk up yo with halter ! Not gonna happen

then there is just my hunch that a disease isn't going to wipe out every single animal usually ,there is no good explanation for why they supposedly died out
so I don't know for sure but I have reason to question the orthodoxy on this

I just think we aren't using the information we have and missing whats right in front of our faces

so because of the many unanswered mysteries about horses I have this theory and the link that I posted has an explanation of this theory by Craig Downer in it, not that you'll read it

after all to you everything is known and there is nothing left to do than regurgitate discredited claims about Mustangs . So far nothing that the ranchers the oil men or the BlM have said about Mustangs or written in their reports is true and to me that discredits them as any kind of potential information about them at all

I know a lot about horses so I know when someone says something that about them that isn't true ..such as horses have a brain the size of a walnut . That is just one statement that shows me not how stupid horses are but how stupid someone who says that is

It's almost like they've been planning this all along ...

Richard Day, 3/20/1969:

"The stated plan was that different parts of the world would be assigned different roles of industry and commerce in a unified global system. The continued preeminence of the United States and the relative independence and self-sufficiency of the United States would have to be changed... in order to create a new structure, you first have to tear down the old, and American industry was one example of that."...
"Each part of the world will have a specialty and thus become inter-dependent, he said. The US will remain a center for agriculture, high tech, communications, and education but heavy industry would be "transported out."

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
I posted a least a half a dozen and said you didn't read them because you didn't think they were credible sources

The actual scientific study you posted didn't refute the claims I was making. The others were just articles with no citations.

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
after all to you everything is known and there is nothing left to do than regurgitate discredited claims about Mustangs.

Once again, you're making false assertions about my character and misrepresenting my position. At this point, I shouldn't be surprised by that.

Also, exactly what claims about mustangs have been discredited?

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
I wrote previously of reading from a journal written by one of the first Conquistadors to reach Paraguay

Natives also told stories about cities of gold. While it is possible, you shouldn't rely on a second hand account, twice translated (unless you speak spanish/portugese), to set a firm date.

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
then there is just my hunch that a disease isn't going to wipe out every single animal usually ,there is no good explanation for why they supposedly died out
so I don't know for sure but I have reason to question the orthodoxy on this

That's actually not far off from the truth. Even if you engineer a fatal virus, your best results will probably be something like 99.9%. If the population is large enough, then natural variation will most likely result in a handful of individuals that have an increased chance of survival. This is why bottles of "germ-killing" products say "Kills up to 99.9% of Germs!"

Though, with large mammals in North America, I think there are 3 major causes thought to be behind their extinctions.

Pie Keeper that the Mustangs are responsible for range destruction is a boondoogle because everywhere they are eliminated they are replaced with cattle so clearly the Range a nd destruction of native species is no part or purpose of the current eradication of Mustangs . Whether or not they are native species is irrelevant .when that is used as an excuse and they are replaced by cattle

BLM can't have it both ways and what are they doing is egregious animal cruelty and is illegal but no one is watching the henhouse

it is entirely possible given how little is actually known about horses that some lines of North American horses never died out

there was just found a group of native wild horses in Hungary or some Balakan place nobody had any idea they were there and suddenly ,well there they are can't remember where I saw that have to find it maybe Nat Geo ....


the re isn't any reason to zero out the Mustangs off the face of the earth that's crazy there are feral dogs and feral dog coyote hybrids out there BLM doesn't care there are feral pigs spreading through the rangelands BLM doesn't care

why do they just want to kill the Mustangs ? Ever wonder ? I mean if you're that concerned with the science of range management why are Mustangs the only thing on a range full of cattle sheep dogs and pigs
that has to go ? Scientifically speaking do you think after all the Mustangs are dead the range will be any better off ?

really? Did you watch the videos ? did you miss the BLM is lying about this part? The corruption and corporate pandering are why BLM kills the horses ,the quality of the range and the nativeness or non nativeness are completely off the table at the point where BLM decides to kill off all the horses and leave the cattle

if you are that concerned about the range and the nativeness of what inhabits it then the cows and sheep would have to go
Bison are native but they aren't allowed on the range either the BLM kills off Elk and Deer too so how can anyone take this argument about native wildlife seriously if anything given the above paradigm
I'm inclined to believe the horses are native after all the BLM is wiping them out as though they were

it's really simple the AQHA wants the range for their own breed of meat horse and they don't want Mustangs that are natural and healthy out there mingling with their frankenhorses and they are are lobbying for slaughter plants and killing Mustangs and telling Americans that horsemeat is the cool thing to eat cause horses aren't native and they're made out of meat just like cows!

that's why mustangs are being killed

reply to post by MrsBlonde


Obviously you don't remember anything I said in your thread. I'm not for open range cattle grazing, and I'm not for outright killing the horses. I've simply argued that these horses are the descendants of domesticated animals (aka feral) and that they cause habitat changes/damage and compete with native wildlife (and I supported these claims with scientific studies.)

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


that's what what I keep saying they aren't
and besides it's perfectly okay for for non mustang horses to be on the range
what physiological changes are completely reversed and then reversed again to make it possible for Mustangs to be so dangerous they must be eradicated for the safety all life and then oh domestic horses sure thing
they're no problem?
and they do have predators many captured mustangs have Lion claw marks and coyotes kill the foals ranchers and poachers never miss an opportunity to shoot them so they have predators



it's not about the environment or the origins of Mustangs

it's about power control and eco terrorism by Big Corporations
part of it is to make a display of power to show us what they can do to us any time they want ,and that government is not in charge they are

I actually think a court order needs to brought and the BlM should cease all activity and should have to answer to a Congressional Investigation into criminal animal cruelty ,bribery , and treason ,they have obviously gone rouge if they think they can simply steal taxpayers horses and the disappear them gone on secret caravans to Mexican slaughter houses

we need someone in Canada and in Mexico at the slaughter houses there to count how many mustangs are coming in ,I suspect that BLM is running a slaughter operation on these so called private lands where they hide them

I think and emergency court order putting the Mustangs under the supervision of the Humane society and pending a full criminal investigation by Congress is needed but I don't know how to make that happen

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

that's what what I keep saying they aren't

Just because you say something doesn't make it true.

If you're going to refute my claims, you're going to need empirical evidence and scientific sources.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by PieKeeper]

SPRINGER!!!!! FLASH FLASH!!!!

The entire roundup is against the law!!!!!! OMG! I was trying to get all references to the acts that protect the horses, not the land as BLM would have you to believe and it's time to throw water on everyone involved.
First, here is the BLM operational plan:
www.blm.gov... df
But here is the butt kicker - The Wild Horse Annie Act from Wild Horse preservation!
www.wildhorsepreservation.org...
Get your lawyers and go to it guys!
I just hope it helps!

edit to add: The Taylor Grazing Act 1934 is what the ranchers will use against you.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by DaWhiz]

Originally posted by DaWhiz
SPRINGER!!!!! FLASH FLASH!!!!

The entire roundup is against the law!!!!!! OMG! I was trying to get all references to the acts that protect the horses, not the land as BLM would have you to believe and it's time to throw water on everyone involved.
First, here is the BLM operational plan:
www.blm.gov... df
But here is the butt kicker - The Wild Horse Annie Act from Wild Horse preservation!
www.wildhorsepreservation.org...
Get your lawyers and go to it guys!
I just hope it helps!

edit to add: The Taylor Grazing Act 1934 is what the ranchers will use against you.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by DaWhiz]

way to go Da Whiz !! the BLM has no mandate to kill off Mustangsl protected by an act Of Congress! I know that ATS has good Lawyers that can advise on this!!!!

Originally posted by agentofchaos
What can I do though? If our congressman signed it and they have to stop, but aren't; doesn't that mean they're breaking the law? Should I get my vigilante justice on? Just show up, and bring their whole little establishment down? I got the means, but do I got the support?

see I support but but have no means !it has to stopped though

we might not have any Mustangs before the year is out the situation is very bad

reply to post by DaWhiz


We know this... Congress knows this (they passed the law back in 1971) and has "requested" they stop these ridiculous roundups yet they persist.

There is no basis in real science and it looks more and more like graft, I aim to find out what the real reasons are (I obviously have my suspicions) no matter how much heat I need to bring or survive.

I am in the process of contacting several Member's press secretaries and Committee members in the hope of getting this "request" turned into an order.

Don't know how successful I'll be, but, I am giving it heck.

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


Good luck Springer, it has become obvious that we need all the help we can get, thank you so much for all your head work and caring.

reply to post by Springer



there needs to be an internal coup, there is plenty of legal foundation to have the FBI put a stop to BLM ,I;m thinking this might be a job for Eric Holder

the Wild Free Roaming Horse and Burro Act of 1971 has been defunct
since ammended by The Burns Amendement

but I still think it can be regarded as illegal for the the BLM to roundup horses knowings that hundreds will die in the process if a private agency did this they would be prosecuted ,so animal cruelty

then there are the ones don't don't get adequate care and shelter while in capitivity, that's criminal neglect

the reason for removing them is a total lie and fraud and graft and abuse of power

there are plenty of crimes here and so if I can help in any way let me know

I almost think some kind of citizens arrest or citizens rescue of the horses if we can find them,might just work