To the believers of biblical creation: Please shift the "act" of creation millions of years back

Einstein proved that time depends on your motion relative to a chosen frame of reference.

For this reason 7 days and 13.75 billion of years can both be correct. I see no problem with your proposition, unless you happen to be a fundamentalist with little knowledge of science.

Future and Past are really only Components of the Present....

reply to post by dusty1

Many on ATS put there trust in what scientists say, without doing the actual research themselves. They may read an article but do not experience it themselves.

This could be said for the majority of people regardless of stance, but everyone will make assumptions, they will have views on the subject even before information is presented, this is natural. You don't need have to have a degree in every field to understand topics, however, having an opinion isn't the same as having actual / higher knowledge about the matter.

It comes down to, who do we put our trust in, or who do we put our faith in?

I still find using this "faith in scientists" argument rather silly. This is what an education is for, to understand things. Experts publish their studies for the public to see, after a peer review which I think is pretty relevant considering your argument. It can be debated, fact checked etc. And to address the quote, I would "trust" in whichever had stronger evidence / could explain misconceptions that are being thrown at it, with evidence.

Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by adjensen

 

I don't look for explanations of natural events in my relationship, any more than you'd look to your mother or wife for a reason that trees have leaves or apples fall when you cut their stems.

Well, I have no idea what that was supposed to mean.

It seems fairly self obvious -- my relationship to God is a personal one, as one's relationship to another person might be. I do not look to God for a reason that dogs have legs instead of wheels, why the Universe was created, or anything else. Your belief that I have faith because I need to know why something exists is incorrect.

the more that I opened myself up to exploring and learning, the more I found evidence of God

And which evidence would this be?

The more that I looked at the details associated with individual parts of reality, the more it seemed likely that there was something, whether logical or mathematical, behind it. Pure randomness began to make less and less sense. As I examined complex systems, I began to see the underlying mathematical theory and, again, randomness seemed less likely.

That served to supplement the non-objective aspects of faith that I've been working through since I was in my early teens.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, but I presume that you have a point. Kindly restate it, and I'll be happy to respond.

My apologies then. I was trying to explain the idea of someone that is unaware of how evolution, or anything really, works and attributes it to something such as God whereas someone that has a good understanding of the subject knows that not only is that wrong, but even if we didn't have evidence to the contrary, that simply implying God did it is not a reasonable explanation and has no basis.

As above, I do not use God to generically "fill in the blanks." I don't understand an awful lot of things in the Universe, but my answer to that is not "Oh, God did it", but "Sorry, not a clue." I expect that, given enough time, we'll sort out a lot of this stuff, but there will always be some piece that is missing, a piece that is only filled by the acceptance that we're not the end-all, be-all in the Universe, and that our perception of reality is only a shadow of what it is.

I'd like to hear your evidence for God though.

As I have said, many times, the evidence that I have of God is subjective, and I would be somewhat disappointed it is was otherwise. If it would help you, I would be happy to provide you with an example of this, but as it is of a personal nature, please U2U me and I will do so.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by adjensen]

reply to post by Whyhi

I'd like to hear your evidence for God though.

Dark Energy.

The Bible described the activities of the aliens. And yes they took the credit for the "creation" of the planet Earth and the universe.

Seek elsewhere.

i hear you icepack--and i feel ur pain!! why cant the religionologists just say that the soul of man after millions of years of evolution on this earth whent into the adam/eve/jesus m.o. about 5000yrs. ago, give or take a millenium...whats the biggie anyone that can add and subtract has been doing the math on this--the kool-aid in the water does not effect all of us to believe like robuts!!!!!!!!!! thanx, dude!!

reply to post by Whyhi

I still find using this "faith in scientists" argument rather silly. This is what an education is for, to understand things.

Of course you find it silly, I showed you how science and faith are connected and it went over your head.

Experts publish their studies for the public to see, after a peer review

If you were younger, say, ten years old, and submitted something for peer review, how accurate would it be?

Maybe at ten years old a "popular" child expresses an idea, and everyone goes along with it to gain acceptance in the group. So it goes with the young and inexperienced.

My point is that Science is young in it's understanding. Peers come from the same schools of thought and many things are driven by financial and political motivation.

To gain acceptance.

reply to post by icepack


I hear you on this, young earth creationists foolishly cling to a false idea of the whole universe being created in 144 hours!

And their justification is we have faith that all things are possible with God.
Yet we have light from stars and galaxy's reaching our planet that has been traveling for millions of years. Isn't that a fact of science that destroys the young earth theory?

The bible is correct on creation, many just have the interpretation so wrong, it's just as wrong as evolution is.