Remote Viewing side effects

The side effects of remote viewing

(Disclaimer:For the purpose of the thread to work, let us assume that RV is real. For people new to this phenomena, here is some brief info)

When i was talking to other remote viewers about the experience, I noticed some similar side effects that seem to be connected to remote viewing.

The purpose of this thread is to get others to join in so we can get a list of side effects experienced by remote viewers and maybe even figure out what causes them.

The list I compiled so far;


Changes in the circadian rythm.
Takes a long time to shut down and fall asleep.
Random images flashing in your minds eye (buildings, people, machines and so on that you have never seen before or even thought about. Sometimes even really disturbing images).
"Zoning out" for no reason while trying to concentrate on something.

I would like my fellow ATSers to contribute to the list and share their experiences and maybe even come up with an explanation for some of the side effects.

My explanation for the random images flashing in the minds eye would be that another RV-er uses your mind as a relay point to strengthen their reception.

What say you ATS?

reply to post by locster


I have a true account relating to this thread. I was trying to remote view Mars. But I wasn't following the modern protocols. Namely I had a known chosen target. From what I know this could give false positive readings. According to some, a person must start "blank".

Anyhow, I was using Cayce techniques to induce a vivid dream or vision or hunch of some sort. Or possibly an OOBE. This went on for weeks, I was sure I could do it. I failed!!

A few days passed and I had a very vivid dream being in an ETs presence. I remember it well. It was vivid, but just a dream.

About a week passed, then the poltergeist showed up. (the poltergeist was real, not a dream) Pretty interesting experience. Not as creepy as you would think, except in the beginning. Well the poltergeist is gone now.

I have not repeated the experiment, no more remote viewing Mars.

I give my word that this is a true account.

reply to post by chorizo4


I don't think you had to say "this is a true account" twice.

and I wish I could do remote viewing.

*edit - minor error in grammar.

[edit on 8/12/10 by GENERAL EYES]

Very interesting thread...and like you, lets go with 'RVing exists' rather than entering into a debate on whether it does or doesn't.


Just as my own disclaimer: The perspective I approach/answer this is very much from a cultural perspective, of my native culture, NZ Maori.

RVing, astral projection, all those things aren't hugely uncommon...and we may well refer to them by different descriptions/terms.

However - as to the question of *side effects* of RVing...well...

Depends.


Depends on what?
A great many things.
Side effects are just that...effects of actions or otherwise.
So when it comes to any side effects you may experience they are also linked to what it is you are doing and the manner in which you are doing it.


So some questions to keep in mind:

- Why are you RVing?
Are you doing so for a specific purpose? Is that purpose *pure* or not?
Have you been *mandated* to do so - by that I mean that, to us culturally anyway, part of the safety of those experiences is found within ones mandate to do it...if it has been specifically requested of you, or if you're out there doing it as an individual for your own reasons going places you perhaps haven't been handed a 'pass card' to access.
That may not make a whole lot of sense...but essentially for us culturally we believe that you place yourself at greater risk if your engagements within those spiritual planes are based on self-focus...are being done of your own accord...and particularly if you're basically breaching into areas you don't really have a right to be snooping around in.



- What are you doing while you are there?
Again, what is your motivation.
Is your motivation pure or again is it personal and is it in any way violating other peoples own right to be undisturbed.
Basically simply because you *can* doesn't mean you *should*. There is still responsibility with it. How you use it and why you use it.



- Not everything is sweetness and delight, so to not everything wants things to be sweetness and delight.
To us as a culture we see the spiritual realms having similarities to the physical one, in that simply because something exists on a spiritual plane doesn't mean its devoid of simple basics of being Good, bad, or indifferent.

IF your function/intention while moving around on/in those planes is...for instance...to restore balance for someone, is to ascertain something specific in order to assist someones healing, or such-like, then for us culturally we need to be aware that not everything 'over that side' is fine with that. Is fine with having some 'goodie-two-shoes' coming across and seeking to help someone...indeed for some things on that side they take great exception to that!
Their focus is disbalance, dis-ease...and will, if you encounter them, do what they can to throw a spanner in your works. You betcha there are things that are not-so-pure that just LOVE to put a crimp in your day if you're wandering around in what they see as their turf.

...so we need to be mindful that we keep ourselves covered, keep ourselves protected, while out in those realms. Methods to do so are many: the processes you use, encantations you use, objects you wear, other people remaining watching over your 'physical body' and utilising various encantations to ensure your safety and guide you back when the jobs done. For us its often a case of "Get in, do what you need to do and ONLY what you need to do, then get back out again".



You also mention random images etc just flashing around.
Well yeah...I guess in some ways for some people it can basically be like leaping into a fast-flowing stream.
You may be only interested in checking out the fish-life in that stream but also within that stream will be leaves, the odd tree branch etc etc. Sometimes it can be a case of simply lots of things buffetting around so you need to also be focussed on not getting distracted by the other randomly floating objects that may whizz past you.


You also mention another point...of the possible 'cross over' of other RVers.
Again - just from a cultural angle - our culture is not one that works alone. We work in groups...safety in numbers, also means less chance of anyone getting a big ego about it and thinking its all about them and they are the bee-knees in what they do blah blah...as a sense of ego about it is also (to us anyway) one of the quickest ways of losing purity in it. Plus, noone is perfect...so having a few more heads and a few more *eyes* on the job doesn't hurt.

It can indeed be a case of when you're in the presence of another similar person you can almost, hmmm how to explain it, AMP up your own radar by *pinging* off theirs. For many of my culture thats another key reason why the work is done collectively - so that collectively the energy is increased. You may well find that if your in the company of 'like minded/perspectived' people then your own senses may seem to increase in clarity.

However...the opposite can also be true. It depends on the people you're with. Not everyone with a *sense* necessarily utilises it with purity. Not everyone with a *sense* necessarily knows how to regulate it.
For some their...only way to describe it is signal...their *signal* is just so unregulated that being in their presence basically quelchs all over your own frequency like a radio transmitter...

...so if you're in the presence of others doing such work then the collective needs to be attuned as well or someones going to get thrown off...



...thats enough for now...plenty of other ways to be effected, plenty of other reasons....




Peace.

Those side effects are real. When you start having them, just relax, rest, recharge your body, revitalize your kundalini energy, and make sure you watch what foods you put in your body. Stay away from wheat while you do RVing, and don't eat anything that stays too long in your digestive system, like meat.

reply to post by locster

RVers aren't doing the viewing alone...
...it is facilitated by spirit beings who do the leg work...
...and when the human consciousness disengages...
...the entities remain just outside of perception...
...but their presence can 'bleed' into our normal perceptions.

There is nothing new about RV...
...it has been used by primitive tribes forever...
...it has just been given a modern spin within a scientific framework.

There was quite a smart guy who was trained by the CIA to remote view by the name of Donohue he went very,very dark and got himself into a world of trouble,I wouldn't attempt it unless I was been taught by a master of impeccible character,it is a road to the dark side.

Originally posted by anglodemonicmatrix
it is a road to the dark side.

I would suspect someone who demonstrates true remote viewing abilities to the alphabet agencies (CIA, NID etc) will have a side effect of instantly becoming both an asset and a liability. An asset because they can ferret out secrets the spooks want to know, and a liability because how do you keep secrets from someone who can "see" anywhere? They might not want all their secrets known to him, and this could have a side effect of a limited life expectancy, perhaps?

I tried remote viewing a couple of times but I don't think I really had more success than the remote viewing demonstrated on the Derren Brown TV show with the person he calls the world's most foremost expert on remote viewing:

Derren Brown - Remote Viewing


And I've also had all the side effects listed in the OP even when not remote viewing.

reply to post by chorizo4




Remote viewing mars is really interesting to say the least.
I agree on information recieved while not doing the double blank routine being useless as genuine info, since the info may be biased according to ones beliefs.

A few days passed and I had a very vivid dream being in an ETs presence. I remember it well. It was vivid, but just a dream.

That is very interesting, I had those too after my first attempts.

About a week passed, then the poltergeist showed up. (the poltergeist was real, not a dream) Pretty interesting experience. Not as creepy as you would think, except in the beginning.
Well the poltergeist is gone now.

I never had that happen. Maybe you opened up a little and the poltergeist was you interacting with things without knowing it?

reply to post by platipus


I was surprised with how easy it was. Give it a serious try and you will see how easy it is.
Here is a manual to get you started. Enjoy!

reply to post by GENERAL EYES

I too had the severe migraine headaches, combined with tunnel vision wich lasts about an hour.
I had totally forgot about those, thank you for adding to the list!

reply to post by alien


I agree that RV is just a new name for something that has been around since the beginning.
I also agree that the universe is predatorial and one must not take that lightly.
Are you saying that the intent while using RV shapes the experience?
As in you attract what you put out?
That was a very interesting post.

reply to post by leira7

Could you elaborate on how and why these side effects are caused?
Does the wrong food mess up the energy flow?
please elaborate

Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by locster

 

RVers aren't doing the viewing alone...
...it is facilitated by spirit beings who do the leg work...
...and when the human consciousness disengages...
...the entities remain just outside of perception...
...but their presence can 'bleed' into our normal perceptions.

How did you come to this conclusion? I would like to know more.

There is nothing new about RV...
...it has been used by primitive tribes forever...
...it has just been given a modern spin within a scientific framework.

I totally agree.

reply to post by anglodemonicmatrix

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I got my first info from a goverment manual on RV.
Remote viewing for the goverment would be interesting, just to see what they know and what they want to know.
I agree that it would be a double edged sword, because being a conduit for sensitive information makes you a liability.
I can imagine that big companies would be interesting in this ability also.

No job offers yet, so i dont need to worry about being a liability




*EDIT* formatting

[edit on 13/8/10 by locster]

Originally posted by locster

reply to post by alien

 

Are you saying that the intent while using RV shapes the experience?
As in you attract what you put out?

In some ways yes, in some ways no.
Again...as not-an-answer as it may be: It depends.

And again this is coming from our cultural understandings - and so I acknowledge the understandings of others...this is but one.



For us there are I guess a set of rules that surround such things - indeed all interactions between and within the spiritual and physical realms.
For our culture - like so many other cultures - there are those who to varying degrees 'walk within both the spiritual and the physical' as cliche as that sounds.



These people come in essentially two *classes*:
The Matakite
Mata = Face
Kite = To see or all-seeing.
Matakite = the all-seeing face.

The Matakite are those who see, who hear, who experience the spiritual realms. Their *reality* is an intertwined existance of blended spiritual and physical.


The Tohunga
Tohu = sign, indication, instruction
Nga = plural, all of
Tohunga = The one that reads/knows the signs.

The Tohunga I guess could be viewed as being our Clerics. They are the Healers, the conscious interactors and influencers within the spiritual realms.



These two types have existed since forever within our culture.
Many still exist today, heck I know many of them personally and work alongside many of both types on a daily basis.
In some ways the role of the Matakite is to work alongside the Tohunga...to function as an assistant, and to learn from the Tohunga - if however that is the intended path of the Matakite.

The two types...while we don't really ascribe to a sense of spiritual hierarchy as such...could be seen in almost levels if you will. The two have similarities and certainly differences.

Not all Matakite are Tohunga or destined to be such...but all Tohunga by the very nature of what they do are Matakite.

A better way perhaps of explaining that is that the Matakite component is the experience...the Tohunga component is what one does - or is allowed to do - with it.



The *rules*, or Tikanga as we refer to it are *rules* based on numerous things.
Safety being one of them. Safety of self and safety of others.

It is our belief that everything we do - via the belief of a universal connection - impacts not just ourselves but others. Anything we do, be it within the physical world or the spiritual creates an effect - creates *ripples* if you will.
The aim is to ensure that any ripples create where possible are more focussed on restoration of balance rather than instigation of disbalance.


The Tohunga also come in different 'classes/types' as well.
Many are Healers. Some however are less than pure - indeed their function is quite the opposite...their function/intention is to create ill-health, is to create negative ripples...these ones are often referred to as Tohunga Makutu.
Makutu is to do with the essences of cursing, of creating foul outcomes, the darker sides and darker interactions within those spiritual realms.


Also within our culture (and I appreciate this is sounding like some bad B-grade Movie script) there are occasions where the two types *square off* against eachother.
One Tohunga may be interacting within the spiritual realm for 'good intentions' (hate to put it that way)...and can well basically come up spiritual fire/attack from a Tohunga Makutu who may be working for the other team so to speak.


As mentioned in my previous reply:
Be it physical, be it spiritual, there are sectors of each with opposing intentions...and occasionally clashes happen.
Sometimes it can be predatory as you say...and sometimes it can be combative.
Hence the focus on safety.




Some other *rules* that can apply:

- Not for selfish/self-focussed intention
Those I know who I trust when it comes to the spiritual and physical interactions do not charge for any services they deliver. They don't have a *fee*. It is our belief culturally that placing a 'value' upon such work then introduces a potentially less-than-pure motivation for it.
Thats no condemnation of those who do charge, who do assign a dollar-value or otherwise to the work they do...after all, people need to live, eat, pay bills etc. Its more just a guiding philosophy for us to not 'make it about the money'.
We also believe that if you operate with purity then whatever it is you need - and I say need not want - in life will come.




What you 'take into' those realms can create ripples - and as you say attract same in return.
That ol' chestnut of what you put out you receive.

If you're going in there all amped and hot under the collar, if you're going in there all bristling and focussed on whooping someone/somethings ass for instance...then the *energy* you're carrying with you into those realms can be like a glowing light to darker moths.
Hence with us there is also a focus on calmness, subtly, on focussing on passing through those realms as a soft breeze rather than a howling gale.




Peace.

reply to post by alien

That is very interesting info! Thank you very much for that

Are there "common" side effects that are known in your community?

Originally posted by locster
Are there "common" side effects that are known in your community?

Yes.

Side effects...or even another way of looking at it is *cost* or *toll*.
We believe that for everything you do, be it physical or spiritual, it requires 'energy'.

Same thing if you do a hard days work, your cost may well be physical exhaustion, may be the odd pulled muscle even.

Spiritual engagement also brings with it similar costs...and the level of which you feel them is also dependent upon who you are, how you do it, what you did, how *strong* or *energised* your spiritual-self is at the time, the purity of ones motivations and actions.




Other side-effects are what you and others have mentioned:

- feeling of being depleted/drained.
A tired feeling unlike that of physical tiredness, though the physical and spiritual *exhaustion* can just as readily walk hand in hand...as ultimately the physical and the spiritual are like different sides of the same coin - each effects the other.

- a period of hyper-sensitivity immediately afterwards.
For instance you may find that sounds just seem harsher to your ears, lights brighter, smells, tastes etc more intense. Often the period after such engagements requires one to retreat a bit into a less stimulating environment, basically go somewhere quiet and 'wind down' and reground yourself back into your physical existance. Hence again why we work collectively for safety.

- disorientation is not uncommon.
Perhaps its more part of that period of returning back from the spiritual. The spiritual can be incredibly intense...and in some ways the return back into a more physical experience can, for a short while, seem quite disorientating.
Indeed for some they even have a sense of almost sadness if you will about 'leaving' the spiritual realm.
Not only can elements of those realms be intense, they can also be quite beautiful and alluring. Again depending on what you're doing on that side. But its not uncommon to experience such *joy* such *wonderment* over in the spiritual realms that you almost regret returning back to the physical.

- increased *sense* while engaging on the physical - with others, environments etc on an every day basis.
With anything I guess practice brings familiarity, also can aid in mastery. For some who regularly go in and out of those realms their own 'spiritual senses' can often become quite heightened.
What you feel from people, what you may know about them, their past etc etc...those senses can often become increased through your regular exposure and familiarity with such sides of the coin.

- danger.
Again it depends on what you are doing, who you are doing it for, intent etc etc.
I'll again refer back to the occasionally combative and predatorial nature of some essences of those realms.
What you do can leave traces...can basically put you 'on the radar' to other *things* that may not appreciate what you're doing on that side.
Our culture believes that battles do exist...again be they within this physical realm or the spiritual ones. We believe there is good, bad, indifferent. If you're in those realms *doing good*...then you may come to the attention of other elements that could well attempt to extract a bit of payback for their team.
So...the potential to be subjected to spiritual attack is also, I guess, a work hazard to be mindful of.




Peace.




[edit on 15-8-2010 by alien]

Adding a bit more around processes we might use to manage and effects from such engagements - bit of 'self-care and after-care' type thing:


Firstly - for us those realms are seen as varying in degrees of what we term tapu...or sacredness.
Though the word 'sacredness' doesn't adequately encapsulate what the essence of our word tapu means, nonetheless its a somewhat close enough English word...

Those realms are seen as the domains of our Atua/God/Gods, they are seen as the domain of our tipuna/ancestors, of the Apa/Angels, of all manner of various *entities* both non-physical and semi-physical.


In some ways...while some may be able to engage within them they are fundamentally seen as being 'not our turf' ie:Not while we're living within these human bodies going through this human existance anyway.

While we may also see that we are essentially spiritual beings living a physical existance...our turf until we pass is this world - the physical.
Any engagements over into those realms and we're basically a *visitor* there.

So our belief is that engagements within those realms also carries with it a sense of transference of tapu...as a residual side effect...of ones flying around within those realms.
When one returns to the physical...depending again on who they are, what was done, what processes and safegaurds/safety mechanisms were put in place prior...they can still be within a state of Tapu. Of sacredness.


Which brings me to the concept of Whakanoa.
The process of Whakanoa is in some ways about removing, uplifting, the state of tapu from someone.
Of removing any residual spiritual baggage, severing any spiritual/ethereal ties and binds that may still remain connecting that person to those realms. Its about reconnecting them back into the physical world and returning them into a state of 'normalcy' if you will.
Hate to put it this way...but it can be almost like a 'spiritual decontamination' process.



Processes of Whakanoa
There are many. Different tribes, sub-tribes, different groups and different people have different methods. Here however are some more common ones:

Water
Water. Taking a bath, a dip, after such engagements is relatively common. If not a bath, then even a simple sprinkling of water over oneself.
Some people - if they live within the geothermal areas of our country - have a dip in a natural hotpool.
Of course the benefits of doing so are physical certainly....its relaxing, its soothing, the sensation of water against your skin can refocus you physically and all that.
It does also have its spiritual components. Water (pure water) is seen as intensely potent spiritually. Certainly used for spiritual cleansing within our culture.
The bathing in a natural hotpool could well be seen as even more so - as there you literally have the combined elemental energies of both fire AND water.


Food
Our people love a good feed. Yes indeed, very little happens for us culturally that doesn't involve a good feed somewhere along the line.
Food is important. Again the physical benefits are there - it re-energises your body, the physical sensations of eating/tasting/smelling etc can again aid in relocation back to the physical self.
But food is also seen as Noa, or 'not sacred'.
So the importance of ingesting foods is a bit more than us just thinking with our stomachs! Its also about very effectively counter-acting Tapu.


Karakia
An English word would be 'prayer'...but again its far deeper than that. The usage of such again for returning the person back wholly and safely into their physical selves. Different incantations, chants and the like are also utilised for such.


Rahui
A Rahui, translated could mean: Temporary Ban. Forbidden. The making of something, some place, some activity or even some person 'off limits'.
Again depending on the person and what is/was done...sometimes they may be placed under a 'rahui'. The *conditions* of the Rahui can vary.
It could be that the person might be forbidden from a specific activity...depending on what the Tohunga/Cleric says.
They might be forbidden from handling food/cooking or touching other people until the Tohunga gives the all-clear.
They might be forbidden from re-entering those spiritual realms for a while.

The Rahui is also used as a bit of a time out. A period of time that person might have to keep out of those realms.
It may be because their engagements within them are pushing them too hard, are depleting them and they need time to rejuvenate, it may also be they may have made a mistake or did something wrong while over in those realms and so the Rahui is a bit like side-lining the person for a bit.
It could be the person themselves is coming under fire from other elements within those realms and so the Rahui is to keep them out and keep them off the radar and out of harms way for a bit.



...back to the food...a bit more specifics on that which may also point more to side-effects:

Again everyone is different, how it affects them is different.
Some may find that *returning* to ones physical self to also come with a somewhat 'delayed' restarting of ones body and its functions.
With reference to food its not uncommon for that person to not be overly hungry for some time (again its all different, I know one guy who when they return they're starving! And no its not 'the munchies', he didn't *take anything* to induce the spiritual state...our culture doesn't).
Some may find that their digestive systems are a little bit slow to start in a way. They might not be able to stomach any sizable meal, or even certain foods for a brief bit.


Often the types of foods that we might provide to those who have been out flying around in those realms is quite basic.
They tend to be natural or as close to natural as possible, not processed and often raw or very lightly cooked.
Vegetables, fruits, nuts, shellfish, maybe fish (again either raw or lightly cooked). Tends not to be red meats or anything 'heavy'.
The foods provided are easy to digest, high in energies, but also as fresh and as close to natural as possible.
If they require a drink, then pure water, or freshly squeezed pure fruit juices etc, maybe milk (again, from the actual cow rather than the usual processed/treated stuff in stores)...No alcohol or high-processed liquids such as fizzy-drinks etc.

The reason behind the steering away from processed foods is our belief that everything has *energy*. Everything. Be it a nut, or a stone, or a mountain, or that blade of grass outside. Everything has its own specific energy to it.
We see processed foods as basically being a mix up of different energies...so the foodstuffs *energy* could well be a bit mixed up too.
Sure - doesn't stop me from occasionally heading down to McDs for a Mc Mystery Burger...meh, I might know the reasons and understand the cultural significance, doesn't mean I always follow it

The reason behind the steering away from meats is a bit similar. Not only are things like red meat a bit more taxing on ones digestive system...the other reason is energy. That animals energy residing within that meat.
Oh my culture isn't one of Vegetarianism or anything...we're not opposed AT ALL to eating red meat - heck, a few of the ancestors weren't opposed to eating eachother.
But we do see that meats carry residual spiritual energies....and when someone is in some ways in that state of flux between the spiritual and physical then its generally wise to err on the side of caution.
Fish and shellfish...while living creatures certainly...are seen somewhat differently as they are from water. Water again as mentioned above as being one *remover* of spiritual residue.






...lots more to add...but thats enough for now...




Peace.

I personally feel that the term RV is severely overused. In 99% of the discussions I have seen on ATS people are speaking of remote perception. Almost the same thing, but NOT. RV uses strict protocols for accuracy. Its like setting up an experiment correctly instead of randomly.

From my personal experience after prolonged periods I can get a pretty decent headache. Feels like it's just over the 'third eye', to use an Eastern term, and behind my true eyes. A hot shower and meditation help that. I also generally need a days rest to regenerate after a prolonged period. I don't know if that is a physical or spiritual need (the rest period) but it helps.

I have also found that the food I eat has an effect. If I eat a lite vegetarian meal I have much better meditation/etc experience. In fact, I have completely gone vegetarian in the last year naturally. My body just adapted itself to that and lost all desire for meat and junk food. It was a natural evolution for me rather than a choice.

Last, I believe the team at SRI found that the body loses a lot of B vitamin. B-12 if I remember correctly. That little bit of info is from a Ed Dames interview. However, I have found that I feel pretty good having an all fruit smoothie afterwards.

I would like to point out, from my perspective, that things don't START happening after you begin RV'ing/etc. These things like seeing other entities are always happening. When we open up to the larger reality these little bits begin to bleed through into our conscious awareness more and more. We receive an unbelievable amount of data constantly and our minds filter out all that which is seemingly unnecessary for basic human life. However, there is sooooo much more going on right underneath the surface all the time. It is not that we open a door for these things to enter our lives, we ourselves are changing frequency so that we can now see for ourselves. Picture this little example. We cannot see in the infrared spectrum. It is a frequency of light which can and does have an effect on other things but we cannot see it. If our eyes were only slightly different we would be able to see it. This is the basic premise here but we are simply speaking about a 'different' set of eyes.

reply to post by Spirit Warrior 11:11


Some great responses/input there...much of which I agree with.


How we see it is that while the physical and spiritual realms may be somewhat separate they are by no means segregated or exclusive.
No more so that each layer of an onion is in any way a separate part of the whole onion.
Layers upon layers.


For whatever reason there are those for whom the layers are as separate or as combined as they are elected to be.
People such as this - the Matakite and the Tohunga in our culture - have always existed.
The change is perception...the *honing* in focus on a specific layer of the onion. Bit like looking at something in the distant and then staring and consciously focussing on it more.


Another way of describing the experience is if for instance you had a stack of Overhead Transparencies...you know those clear plastic pages from school that you put on a light projector to project onto walls/screens etc.
Each sheet with a different image, a different bit of information.

For some people it’s like that...the superimposing of images and knowledges that can be consciously shifted in and out of focus for clarity.
They might be looking at someone and at the same time be *adjusting* their *vision/perception* to also focus on the addition information on that persons stack of Overheads. Information/images regarding that person’s ancestors, past, present, future, other influences and attachments etc.
Same deal for viewing places...the shifting in and out of focus on those layers to gather perspective on events there.

What benefit does that have?
Many. It has benefits for assisting in healing the person, for the cleansing of areas etc.


The movement is principally a movement - a shifting - of perception. Of consciousness...dare I say of your spiritual essence. Like adjusting the dial on a radio to pick up a different station.



More on Side-effects

Headaches
Headaches have been mentioned a few times.
That can be a common side-effect.
As has also been mentioned, for us as a culture (though granted not ALL within our culture necessarily agree with this) many believe the 'seat of the *soul*', the location - if there is any real physical location...is the forehead. Or the Rae as we term it.
Yes that could well be comparable to other cultures understandings of 'the third eye', of that temporal chakra etc.

The Rae is of huge importance.
To emphasis its importance and relevance to our spiritual selves: I mentioned in a previous reply of Tohunga Makutu. Those who engaged in the darker stuff...curses and the like.
Now when it comes to Makutu/curses there is a belief that through targeting specific areas of someone you can create specific afflictions. Depending on what the intention is, whether you wish to physically cripple them, or remove the further procreation of their future generations etc - certain areas of the *target* can be focussed on.
Interestingly enough many of those specific areas are also comparable to the various energy-points or chakras other cultures speak of.

However - if the intention is not to physically harm the person as such, isn't to simply physically damage that *target* or create physical ramifications and ripples for that *target*...but rather if the intention is to literally eradicate that person...to completely and utterly destroy them...then it is the Rae that is targeted.

Even within those 'darker arts' of Makutu there is some sense of the forbidden.
There are levels and degrees of what may in any way be acceptable or excusable or restorable/forgivable.
Focussing the *curse* on a physical outcome is one thing - going at the very spiritual essence of someone is completely different.
That’s a WHOLE different level of hurt and 'evil'...doing something like that is an action we see as there being basically no coming back from, no way of reconciliation. It’s the unspeakable, the unthinkable, and a HUGE no no even within those darker focussed practitioners.


...so...aches...why?
Simple really.
If you were to view it like muscle-strain from physical exercise, that in some way is the reason - but not the only reason. It could also be an essence of growth of ones spiritual awareness...of simple growing pains even...of becoming increasingly accustomed to it etc.



Other Bodily Pains
As mentioned in a previous reply we believe engagements within those realms requires energy.
Energy can be gained in many different ways, can be transferred, borrowed, bounced off, manipulated etc…again it often comes down to ones own individual processes, their own *abilities* to channel or call upon various ‘energy sources’, what they are doing with it and many other factors.
For some they may ‘tap in’ to their own internal energy sources/points…again the concept of Chakras could come into it.
The Ngakau, or Heart, for us is a strong energy point. Some basically ‘tap in’ on that source in order to ‘amp up’ their Rae. The side effects of that can be a tiring of the heart/chest area…maybe even an altering of the heart rhythm etc.

Maybe the stomach, or Puku/Pito area…again the side-effects of that could be altering of ones digestive system for a while.

One person I know seems to occasionally ‘amp up’ by accessing the energies within their groin area – or the Svadhi I think it’s referred to in terms of Chakras.
The side-effects he experiences from that can be either a hyper-sensitivity or lack thereof within that region, can be having a bit of trouble with urination or so forth for a bit.


Methods for Reduction of Energy-draining Effects
Again it’s hugely dependent on what you do, how you do it, who is doing it etc.
This is another reason why this type of *work* is done collectively rather than individually – so that those who are present to support/assist can also on some levels gift over some of their own energies or channel other energies to the person doing the work. Thus sharing the load and increasing the safety.

It has also been mentioned by another person the concept that *other entities* in those realms can basically do the ‘leg-work’ on your behalf.
One technique to reduce ones depletion is to have your allies over in those realms…to basically call upon them and request they perform the task at hand…and for you to merely be the intermediary. So it’s not so much you out there channelling whatever in order to achieve the aim…but rather you pass it over to your allies for them to deal with.

There are other reasons as to why techniques like that can be important:
Ego.
Doing such things there is a danger that the person can succumb to the belief that they are basically the be-all-and-end-all when it comes to spiritual engagements. Humbleness is a key component of our cultural beliefs around these things.
Its not so much YOU that does them…you’re just the servant of ‘something greater’ than yourself. The channel, the conduit, nothing more.
So handing things over, seeking assistance from allies, working collectively etc are all ways to lower the chances of you making it about you.

Safety again.
Now to take this a bit deeper here…
Lets revisit that concept of altering ones consciousness, ones spiritual perceptions in order to *breach/access* into those realms.
We also believe that not only are there physical and spiritual realms…but threes also areas of ‘neither’.
Neither? What does that mean? One way of describing it would be to see them as almost being places of ‘in between’…that aren’t solely physical, nor are they solely spiritual…they exist as in some ways the between-spaces.
These areas – well, some of them anyway – can be seen as almost neutral territory. They are the spaces between the realms that some practitioners meet their allies, have discussions with them, make their requests etc with those who exist on the spiritual planes. It’s almost like a common-ground to meet…and in some ways, not always of course, these areas are seen as also being more ‘off the radar’ to other entities on those realms.
So for some the utilisation of those in-between spaces is a safety mechanism, is focussed on keeping a low profile. I guess a bit like a computer hacker might utilise a Proxy so they can’t so readily be tracked.


Here’s the other perception we have of those ‘in-between spaces’ – some of us (again, not all within our culture hold this view) see that some of those spaces can function almost like ‘jump points’ to other areas.
Through accessing one space you may be able to springboard over to another space or another and thus be more effective in achieving the intended aim.
Again to use a computer-hacker analogy it would be like a hacker that bounces off other servers to get somewhere so as to again reduce the likelihood of being tracked or to increase the effectiveness of the intent.

Some practitioners utilise those spaces for safety…and again a big part of that comes down to the person/practitioner themselves and their own specific techniques.




Peace.

Originally posted by locster
The side effects of remote viewing

(Disclaimer:For the purpose of the thread to work, let us assume that RV is real. For people new to this phenomena, here is some brief info)

When i was talking to other remote viewers about the experience, I noticed some similar side effects that seem to be connected to remote viewing.

The purpose of this thread is to get others to join in so we can get a list of side effects experienced by remote viewers and maybe even figure out what causes them.

The list I compiled so far;


Changes in the circadian rythm.
Takes a long time to shut down and fall asleep.
Random images flashing in your minds eye (buildings, people, machines and so on that you have never seen before or even thought about. Sometimes even really disturbing images).
"Zoning out" for no reason while trying to concentrate on something.

I would like my fellow ATSers to contribute to the list and share their experiences and maybe even come up with an explanation for some of the side effects.

My explanation for the random images flashing in the minds eye would be that another RV-er uses your mind as a relay point to strengthen their reception.

What say you ATS?

Sounds like something hippies from the sixties would experience.
No seriously.......,
sorry, just had to let that out. I have not read all of the replies to
your post yet however, doesn't EMF fields affect the brain in different ways?

I have read studies where applying certain frequencies to parts of
the human brain caused lab rats, I mean subjects to experience
different emotions, feelings, sensations, thoughts and memories etc,.?

If we are truely projecting our minds to differents places and times, Imagine how many EMF fields we cross just to get there and back!
It stands to reason that some residual and or EMF contamination will
linger in thought and memory until forgotten, erased and or dissipated.
Just my 2 cents worth.

reply to post by Mr. D


This has nothing to do with RV. There is no travel through EM fields in RV. Do YOU cross EM fields when you look out to the horizon or look at your house from across the street? No, you don't. You are not moving anywhere in RV, its all data received and you select the data sets you want. There is a data set for perceiving the outside of a structure and a different data set for the inside.

I don't understand why people post when they have no idea what the thread is about and don't even read it. It's like some need to say something regardless what they are saying.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Spirit Warrior 11:11]

reply to post by alien


I'm having a great time reading your perceptions and learning about NZ native culture. We have some differences in interpretation of some of the same things. We have some differing ideas also, but in general we are on the same page with a bit different language. I would love to discuss further but I don't know if that would derail the OPs thread. I don't have mush more to say about the side effects, but tons of perceptual info about the subject.

reply to post by alien


I really enjoy your post, thank you for taking the time to share you vision on this.
I find it very interesting how RV seems to be a acient practise.
Eventhough it has many different names and tradition, the core seems to be the same. This would explain why the ancient people knew things we only discovered when we invented some device to discover it with.