US Judge: OK to extract confessions by threatening rape

Originally posted by againuntodust
Come on guys lets be realistic what would you rather have, a terrorist getting anally raped or a plane crashing into 5000 upstanding, innocent countrymen? We gotta choose the lesser of two evils for the sake of our nation's security!


...

I seriously can't wait till the tables are turned and you are labeled as terrorists and your son is taken without any charges and anally raped.

That is the day when I will be happy to stand next to you and say exactly what you just said and look deep in to your eyes with a big grin in my face.

Originally posted by againuntodust
Come on guys lets be realistic what would you rather have, a terrorist getting anally raped or a plane crashing into 5000 upstanding, innocent countrymen? We gotta choose the lesser of two evils for the sake of our nation's security!
...

That's a false argument for two reasons.

1. This doesn't appear to be a terrorist.

2. You are basically betraying the very ideals your country is based upon by allowing this man to be tortured, you are basically saying that as long as it isn't anyone you know being tortured then it's fine. I am sure your opinion would change if it was a friend or family member.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad, you are allowing your freedoms to be taken away, in order to defend yourself against terrorists who you are told want to take away your freedom.

I'm not even american and it seems i value your constitution more than you do.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

I understand what your saying. But We need to scare the S*** out of them to stop them fighting. we need to demorilize them like we did to japan in '45 its what win wars. our modern day wars are so politicaly correct we cant win them because we are scared about the collateral damage. the collateral damage is what wins wars. its how any civilization in the world has ever won wars. by burning villiges and taking everything.

Not saying we need to take everything thing from them because they have nothen but i hope you get my point. Think what would Patton do right now if we was alive. he would take it to the enemy

You make me sick, you belong in a dungeon with Mr. Hitler himself, and that person who decided to press the buttons on the two atom bombs aimed at innocent people who had nothing to do with your fight.

This is the 21'st century, if you wanna walk backwards then good for you, but know this, I for one will not join or acquaint with your moral. I for one have moved forward and improve rather than being culturally frozen and unable to think for myself.

That being said, I will not rape, nor kill your daughter to win a war against you. Sorry, I don't condone terrorism.

haha one, i would not let that happen two, im glad to find another peace loving hippy i can steel stuff from and will not fight back when the end times come.

Im happy for the men that pulled that triger and droped those bombs. they saved 1,000,000 american lives so we would not have to invade the island of japan.

its people like you feminizing the men of this country and turning them soft. if threating the boy worked and saved lifes then good. he should not be on the wrong side of the fight trying to kill us. you forget that that boy will kill you the one chance he gets but you still love him and defend him. you are the one with the mental illness.

And what does hitler have to do with this and why would i be locked up with him? If we fought WW2 the way we fight wars now you would be speeking german right now or in a death camp waiting to die because you belive in peace and not fighting back.



[edit on 12-8-2010 by camaro68ss]

[edit on 12-8-2010 by camaro68ss]

[edit on 12-8-2010 by camaro68ss]

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


War is HELL.

Anyone involved, that has not caused or deliberately been involved in atrocities, is given afforded war protection. PERIOD.

Sorry, if we would have prosecuted everyone in WW II for what is going on now, we would have had to kill EVERYONE on the German side.

War is WAR. What we are doing is NOT WAR. It is something TOTALLY different.

I know you feel kind of the same way I do. Kind of.

But this # has to stop, they are setting US up to be the NEXT terrorists.

I see it, do you?

Speaking as a Canadian, if the US government wants Omar Khadr, as well as the rest of his clan, they can have him.

Don't take this as any sort of endorsement of the act, but if you're so inclined - rape away.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I guess the sarcasm gets lost in translation.

Originally posted by againuntodust
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

I guess the sarcasm gets lost in translation.

Ahh yeah sorry, understand that lots of people actually make the argument you did without the sarcasm so it's impossible to know if it's a joke or not.

Sorry man.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by againuntodust
Come on guys lets be realistic what would you rather have, a terrorist getting anally raped or a plane crashing into 5000 upstanding, innocent countrymen? We gotta choose the lesser of two evils for the sake of our nation's security!
...

That's a false argument for two reasons.

1. This doesn't appear to be a terrorist.

2. You are basically betraying the very ideals your country is based upon by allowing this man to be tortured, you are basically saying that as long as it isn't anyone you know being tortured then it's fine. I am sure your opinion would change if it was a friend or family member.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad, you are allowing your freedoms to be taken away, in order to defend yourself against terrorists who you are told want to take away your freedom.

I'm not even american and it seems i value your constitution more than you do.

your forget the fact that the guy getting thretened to be anally raped whats you dead! they want you dead, your wife dead your friends dead and your nation dead. so why does it matter if he gets tortured? HE WANTS YOU DEAD! but you still love him and pretect him because he is a human and should not be harmed. thats BS

[edit on 12-8-2010 by camaro68ss]

reply to post by name pending


ok. theres no way this is true. but its really gay.

reply to post by camaro68ss


Did you read the article? For the third time, no lives were saved. The criminals who interrogated the boy were not looking for information, they were looking for a confession. To a crime he never committed.

And though Khadr did not kill the American soldier, what if he did? Why is that a crime? The US invaded Afghanistan and though the Khadrs are Canadian, they immigrated from Afghanistan. That is their country, their people. If bombing villages is not illegal, how can killing one soldier in self-defense be illegal?

reply to post by camaro68ss


Who knows if he wants anyone dead since there wasn't a trial. That's then when punishment comes into play. Now I'm no military genius, but if your main method of terrorist investigation involves putting things in peoples' butts until they tell you they are a terrorist, you probably are not doing a good job.

Reminds me of when people would drown a suspected witch. If she floated she was a witch and burnt, if she drowned she wasn't a witch.

reply to post by camaro68ss


No, he doesn't. He is a child, who was dragged into a warzone by his father. And his father is now dead. This kid just wants to go home.

Camaro, you can't possibly believe waht you are saying, I honestly feel sorry for you now.

I mean to live your life in fear, so as to condone the terrorist acts of the united states government and actually believe that the terrorist acts of other countries is worse.

The dropping of the atomic bomb didn't save any lives, there is no proof that if the bombs weren't dropped that millions of lives would have been lost. I dont understand where you get your numbers. In fact the bombs cost millions of lives, just not american.

You say that peace loving hippies are the weak ones, but i say you are weak and feable.

You are MORALLY weak, and MENTALLY feable.

Obviously you haven't studied war, been to war, or know any soldiers that have been to war.

You are protraying a stereotype beacause deepdown you have no self knowledge.

Once again I am sorry you feel as if you must kill everyone befor they kill you.

P.S. Don't speak of what Patton would do, you have no clue.

Originally posted by againuntodust
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Who knows if he wants anyone dead since there wasn't a trial. That's then when punishment comes into play. Now I'm no military genius, but if your main method of terrorist investigation involves putting things in peoples' butts until they tell you they are a terrorist, you probably are not doing a good job.

Reminds me of when people would drown a suspected witch. If she floated she was a witch and burnt, if she drowned she wasn't a witch.

They threaten him anally because of his religion. I don’t believe he gets to meet alla if he participates in any gay activities. The millitary is not going to capture guy off the streets. he must have been shooting at us or planning an attack of some sort that they know of. thats the grounds to threaten a man with his own religion to get him to talk.

Typical of the US.

Threat of rape? This is the most disgusting thing I have heard for a while.



The US military has been accused of raping women and children and prisoners and I fully believe they do. USMC are the regular grunt, and in todays climate if you look through the ranks it comprises of the uneducated, jobless (before joining) and all minority races and homeless. The only requirement to join is walking on off the street with no prospects in life. USMC "Uncle Sam Molests Children". With their famous slogan "Semper Fildelis" translation "May i play with you in the shower".

Join the USMC and be used as cannon fodder. You will get a nice folded flag (made in china) at your funeral when you inevitably die because its either that of the US will just put you out on the street when you get back to the US with nothing but a denial of your contribution to your country.

Then we have the American troops who joined the Air Force thinking they want to be just like Tom Cruise forgetting one important fact that Top Gun was about the Navy.

The men from previous wars like World War 1 and 2 would be ashamed of the Judges decision and that US soldiers resort to Threats like RAPE and we all know that they actually do this.

Just like the US to pick on a 15 year old who may or may not be a terrorist. Seeming most people in Guantanamo Gay are untried and have no reason for being there. Maybe they should check this little kids passport and if its a US passport then the chances he is a terrorist are high and maybe they can sign him up to join the CIA.

This is bad news for everyone because they always try crap out in the Military first before trying it out on the public and civil law.

So, many people are against torture in general. Hmmm...

My question would be:
You know the terrorist in your custody has valuable information about an impending attack, but you need to get him or her to give you the intel you are missing. You know they will attack within the next two hours, and everything you have done outside of torture has not worked. Regardless about your verbal threats or bribery, the terrorist is standing by his or her many years of learned ideology. According to his or her religious philosophies, he or she would rather die before giving you that information. You realize that according to your own experiences, with this type of terrorist, this man or women will confess when threatened with long term pain.

What do you do?

Do you let innocent people die, so you can gain good public relations with terrorists?

What do you do?

What are your options?

How far are you willing to go, so that innocent people will be saved?

[edit on 12-8-2010 by Section31]

reply to post by camaro68ss


You know not of what you speak. The US military pays Afghan militias to bring in "insurgents." Often these are completely innocent people, such as the cab driver who was murdered byt Josh Claus, the interrogator in this case.

To bring yourself up to speed on this case, google Omar Khadr.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]

Originally posted by camaro68ss
your forget the fact that the guy getting thretened to be anally raped whats you dead! they want you dead, your wife dead your friends dead and your nation dead. so why does it matter if he gets tortured? HE WANTS YOU DEAD! but you still love him and pretect him because he is a human and should not be harmed. thats BS

[edit on 12-8-2010 by camaro68ss]

I would rather risk my life and be free than give up all my rights and be safe. That is the cost of freedom.

HA - LMFAO - the video at the start of this thread is so fragmentally edited that it could easily include Santa Claus admitting that himself is a child molester!

There are so many anti-Obama fascists here on ATS it almost makes me want to relinquish (thats a big word for Americans) my membership.

This Website is rapidly becoming a haven for VERY FAR RIGHT WING FASCISTS.

AMERICAN FASCISTS.

Which we ALL know are worse than the german version of the 1930's/40's.

ATS is becoming the repository of American Facism.

Just read the very many posts against ANY form of political centralism and/or centre/left politics.

The pro gun lobby attack. The pro Jewish lobby attack. The pro Catholic lobby attack.

Have I missed anyone?

America is SO #ed up at the moment (and will be for possibly the next 20 years) that it is broken repair. No wonder it is stretching itself to try to cover any/every PERCEIVED threat across the whole #IN PLANET.

It is filled with Hatred, Paraonoia and an almost unending anger at the rest of the Planet earth.

I respectfully refer all ATS viewers to certain Nazi writings around 1932/33 that certainly concur EXACTLY with what the current USA is going thru.

That is that ANY state outside of the Reich is against itself.

That is that ANY person living within the Reich who happens to mention an opinion that is AGAINST the Reich is a terrorist.

America has taken 9/11 and used it as an exscuse to give it's Arms race production facilities the green light to do what it likes.

EXECPT that .......

Only recently, a centre/left President was LEGALLY ELECTED and He has decided that a DIFFERENT direction is needed to try to stop the global conflict.

What astonishes me, as a non-american (thank-god) is that it appears that so very many working clas americans disagree with a Govt policy of discussion rather than nuclear anhilation!

ATS shows me, time and time again, that Americans are nothing more that nuclear terrorists who are prepared to 'nuke' ANY state (even , it seems, allies like the UK and Germany) at ANY drop of the hat just to protect Israel!

America is the current Roman Emire.

It has Military resources enough, currently, to control the war fronts it currently 'controls'.

Chech your history YANKS.

Only a VERy small change in World Economics will cause your downfall.

Time to start dispensing with your shoot first-ask questions later policy cos it AIN'T WORKING!!!

You need to OPENLY ENGAGE with the rest of the Planet. And by "openly engage" I mean "NOT TO INVADE AND/OR OCCUPY FOREIGN SOVERIGN COUNTRIES".

Originally posted by KingAtlas
Camaro, you can't possibly believe waht you are saying, I honestly feel sorry for you now.

I mean to live your life in fear, so as to condone the terrorist acts of the united states government and actually believe that the terrorist acts of other countries is worse.

The dropping of the atomic bomb didn't save any lives, there is no proof that if the bombs weren't dropped that millions of lives would have been lost. I dont understand where you get your numbers. In fact the bombs cost millions of lives, just not american.

You say that peace loving hippies are the weak ones, but i say you are weak and feable.

You are MORALLY weak, and MENTALLY feable.

Obviously you haven't studied war, been to war, or know any soldiers that have been to war.

You are protraying a stereotype beacause deepdown you have no self knowledge.

Once again I am sorry you feel as if you must kill everyone befor they kill you.

P.S. Don't speak of what Patton would do, you have no clue.

I have visited ever major battle field in the Europe theater that the USA fought in in WW2. I paid my respects to the fallen US soldiers on that foreign soil. I payed my repects to patton himself at his grave site. I have seen D-day and the beaches, i visted bastone. I have visited ever major battle in the civil war. I study history. my father is the largest privet civil war collector in the united states. Your not the one who know what he is talking about. I feel sorry for you. i have family in iraq now. my family has been in every major battle this country has fought in all the way to the Revolutionary war. dont tell me i dont know anything about war. My family fought in those wars! your just soft and a big talker