US Judge: OK to extract confessions by threatening rape

Originally posted by camaro68ss
You wanna know how to stop this war and win really fast. Every muslim you kill you spill pig blood on him and bury him in the ground with a pig. that will stop things really fast.

they cant enter the after life with there 72 vergins if they are tanted with pig blood.

I belive the brits or the americans. i really cant remember did this in like the 1800's and that won the war for us

[edit on 12-8-2010 by camaro68ss]

Or alternately start up a huge slaughter and have amirikans kidnapped off street corners all around the globe to be on tv getting blinded then beheaded, grow up think a bit harder next time you try thinking.

reply to post by DCPatriot


No lives are in danger. Omar Khadr was 15 when he was captured and falsely accused of throwing a grenade that allegedly killed an American soldier. Threatening to rape a kid is one of the sickest damn things I can imagine

reply to post by name pending


This is a joke!!! As a Canadian I am disgusted with both federal governing bodies. The Cdn govt. didnt even want to help this poor kid when he was first sent to Guantanimo!! I guess the American govt asked us to stay out of it. Also, The first prosecution witness, the commanding officer of the battle identified only as Col. W, testified that he discovered Speers in the rubble of the bombarded compound.

"I held his hand for a minute. I noticed his eyes were not focused. He was mumbling incoherently. I tried talking to him, tell him things were OK, ask him to hold on," W said.

W also described seeing Khadr there, with two large gaping wounds in the upper area of his chest.

"He was mumbling," W said, noting that three others were lying dead nearby.

Col. W told the court that Khadr's condition appeared so grave he reported the alledged grenade-thrower died of his wounds. He changed his report two years later, after he was contacted by prosecutors preparing their case against Khadr.

Full Story Link on today's events:
news.sympatico.ctv.ca...

This is just disgusting!! Why try and pinpoint a kid who through the grenade when in the first report written by Col. W said the grenade thrower died? Just so the widow's wife can get some diginty back for what her huband diying? He died!!! Isnt that enough justification for you?

This is the very problemwith america, I am not a terrorist, i dont hate americans, But i do ate the way their governmet works.

Even the american people wont stand up to its government. If everyone here who has read this who is american wrote to their senate or govenor or whatever, this could be stopped...

To me it looks like the ones threatening to rape "minors" aren't there for the information or the confession.
They are there because the means justifies the end.
One of the protestors at the G20 in Toronto was threatened in such a way,
for fun.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by Danbones]

by every account this is wrong.

in the US, police can lie to you during questioning, but only if you are an adult. Children are presumed to be incapable of determining subterfuge (this is why we all tell tall tales to our kids for entertainment...they are naive). So if you are under 18 you cannot be lied to without an adult present.

This is considered basic human rights. Our constitution says these rights are given by God and are inalienable.

Our judiciary just wiped their butts with our founding documents. This country has already gone to hell, and we never even got our handbasket.

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by camaro68ss
You wanna know how to stop this war and win really fast. Every muslim you kill you spill pig blood on him and bury him in the ground with a pig. that will stop things really fast.

they cant enter the after life with there 72 vergins if they are tanted with pig blood.

I belive the brits or the americans. i really cant remember did this in like the 1800's and that won the war for us

[edit on 12-8-2010 by camaro68ss]

Or alternately start up a huge slaughter and have amirikans kidnapped off street corners all around the globe to be on tv getting blinded then beheaded, grow up think a bit harder next time you try thinking.

how about America acts like a man like we did in WW2 and get S*** down. start with stopping there enternce to there mecca heaven. you grow up and stop trying to talk to the enemy and holding hands with them. we need our hands untied so we can finish this war. war is war and they want you dead! America is getting soft and your the prime example

Originally posted by KingAtlas
This is the very problemwith america, I am not a terrorist, i dont hate americans, But i do ate the way their governmet works.

Even the american people wont stand up to its government. If everyone here who has read this who is american wrote to their senate or govenor or whatever, this could be stopped...

You obviously aren't from America.



They don't give a crap what you say. Some will just smile and glad hand you. Others are like Stark, and will just openly treat you with contempt.

But in the end they don't care. They will still be paid when they leave office, and the person holding the office is nothing but a placeholder for the party, which is really the same as the "other" party behind the scenes.

Writing yoru congressman just gives them a letter to prove that you are digruntled, and then keep you on the "no fly" list. No thanks. I will keep my anger more quiet. For now.

Peoples' minds and morals have been raped by the visuals of 9/11 and the subsequent fear of terrorism. Peoples' brains have been retarded on what they think *might* be morally acceptable in the face of such fears. The whole thing is such a huge evolutionary step backwards...

Left or Right... doesn't matter... the side that said torture is okay, that we should fear the terrorist, and give up civil liberties out of fear, whether its left or Right, it is retarded thinking.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I am on the other side, that is why I keep bringing up the question, what is the difference between lying to a defendant and lying that you are going to rape or kill them.

Yes, War is hell, too bad we are not at WAR. There has been no declaration of war.

It is the quagmire rule, supposed war with no real war.

I swear, the more I learn of my government actions, the more I find my government abhorrent.

It does not matter what fringe of the two headed snake is in power.

Oh well, sooner or later they will come for me. And I will ask my fellow citizens to take a stand, and they will be too busy with something like Miley Cyrus to give a damn.

it better be a hot chick interrogating me then, they won't get a word outta me, no sir. if otherwise, i'm fighting for my life, even if it means biting my tongue and bleeding to death.

reply to post by camaro68ss


while what you say is evil and vile, that is the type of thing that saves lives with no real long term cost (other than psychologically).

a better idea is to not have the war in the first place. but if we have to, i am far less opposed to your idea about pigs blood than i am to the idea of the stuff i saw in collateral damage.

but it isn't about "winning the war". If it were, we wouldn't have ignored afghanistan when it needed us the most. iraq was a folly, as it will be a major cause of our bankruptcy.

Originally posted by Tyrannyispeace
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

I am on the other side, that is why I keep bringing up the question, what is the difference between lying to a defendant and lying that you are going to rape or kill them.

Yes, War is hell, too bad we are not at WAR. There has been no declaration of war.

It is the quagmire rule, supposed war with no real war.

I swear, the more I learn of my government actions, the more I find my government abhorrent.

It does not matter what fringe of the two headed snake is in power.

Oh well, sooner or later they will come for me. And I will ask my fellow citizens to take a stand, and they will be too busy with something like Miley Cyrus to give a damn.

I don't think the police should be allowed to lie. Period. If they can lie to me, i should be allowed to lie to them.

But to have to use lies to build your case just denotes an extremely weak intellect, or an extremely weak case. In either event, it is an act of tyranny. Government officers should not be afforded rights that I am not afforded.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

while what you say is evil and vile, that is the type of thing that saves lives with no real long term cost (other than psychologically).

a better idea is to not have the war in the first place. but if we have to, i am far less opposed to your idea about pigs blood than i am to the idea of the stuff i saw in collateral damage.

but it isn't about "winning the war". If it were, we wouldn't have ignored afghanistan when it needed us the most. iraq was a folly, as it will be a major cause of our bankruptcy.

I understand what your saying. But We need to scare the S*** out of them to stop them fighting. we need to demorilize them like we did to japan in '45 its what win wars. our modern day wars are so politicaly correct we cant win them because we are scared about the collateral damage. the collateral damage is what wins wars. its how any civilization in the world has ever won wars. by burning villiges and taking everything.

Not saying we need to take everything thing from them because they have nothen but i hope you get my point. Think what would Patton do right now if we was alive. he would take it to the enemy

reply to post by name pending


What confuses me about the entire guantanemo issue is two things.

1. The US intelligence and military officers involved must know that torture will illicit confessions from even innocent people. So how can anything that is being said be taken seriously? If you torture someone for years i am pretty sure you could get them admit to shooting President Lincoln.

2. Surely they realise that the way these prisoners have been treated will help radicalise not only the prisoners themselves but anyone who knows them and even random people who get told of this issue.

Imagine being locked up for 7 years, tortured on a regular basis, having religious views you hold dear mocked and used against you. Some people might get out of there and go on to try and live a normal life but how many would have a serious vendetta on their minds?

It also seems odd that despite violating the geneva convention the USA isn't being held to account, is it one rule for the powerful nations but a separate rule for the less powerful?

Come on guys lets be realistic what would you rather have, a terrorist getting anally raped or a plane crashing into 5000 upstanding, innocent countrymen? We gotta choose the lesser of two evils for the sake of our nation's security!


...

reply to post by againuntodust


Once again:


No lives are in danger. Omar Khadr was 15 when he was captured and falsely accused of throwing a grenade that allegedly killed an American soldier. Threatening to rape a kid is one of the sickest damn things I can imagine.

I think you need to familiarize yourself with this case. This was a 15-year old kid. He has no information, he did not even commit the act he is charged with.

reply to post by camaro68ss

I understand what your saying. But We need to scare the S*** out of them to stop them fighting. we need to demorilize them like we did to japan in '45 its what win wars. our modern day wars are so politicaly correct we cant win them because we are scared about the collateral damage. the collateral damage is what wins wars. its how any civilization in the world has ever won wars. by burning villiges and taking everything.

Not saying we need to take everything thing from them because they have nothen but i hope you get my point. Think what would Patton do right now if we was alive. he would take it to the enemy

You make me sick, you belong in a dungeon with Mr. Hitler himself, and that person who decided to press the buttons on the two atom bombs aimed at innocent people who had nothing to do with your fight.

This is the 21'st century, if you wanna walk backwards then good for you, but know this, I for one will not join or acquaint with your moral. I for one have moved forward and improve rather than being culturally frozen and unable to think for myself.

That being said, I will not rape, nor kill your daughter to win a war against you. Sorry, I don't condone terrorism.

Read something called:
INQUIRY INTO THE TREATMENT
OF DETAINEES IN U.S. CUSTODY
Report of the
COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES
UNITED STATES SENATE
armed-services.senate.gov...

You'll find it was Cheney and Rumsfeld who pushed Gitmo and other detention centers to use these enhanced interrogation techniques.

Gitmo's original response was basically, this doesn't sound legal, we don't agree with these techniques, they're known to illicit false confessions.

Cheney and Rumsfeld pushed it through, and eventually sent people to Gitmo and other places to train their interrogators on the new enhanced techniques.

The question you have to ask is why the Bush administartion and subsequent administrations push to use techniques known to illicit false confessions rather than real intel.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by spiritualzombie]

Did he really say america has to "Burn down cities and take everything" ... Wow ... I mean really Wow...
Seriously, wow.....

Okay first of, as i understand it, no one wins a war..

And the last time the US government "Burned down cities and took everything" was called VIET-FNG-NAM. In all honestly, the war plan you gave is not one that has lasting effects.

The very reason the US is in the situation it is in now is beacuse they "Burned down cities, and took everything" causing a loathing by poorer countries.

Ok like this, imagine you live in a dirt country, you have nothing and arrogant american sodiers walk around not only detaining anyone they want, but kicking people out of their homes to use the houses as bases.
Now this doesnt happen as much now a days, but it was the way it worked before. America has created alot of mistrust and destain from poorer countries, because of its non-ethical treatment of the populace in wartimes.

I don't mean to offend anyone just stating the truth as I see it.