Google CEO Schmidt: No Anonymity Is The Future Of Web

The problem with the statement "if you have nothing to hide" is history. The same history that just a century ago people still very much were and in some places are into marrying underage partners - something that went on for many thousands of years will now land you in jail for the rest of your life.

Same with shooting a thief that steals your horse - try shooting a car jacker and see where that gets you. Probably a felony so you can longer have guns.

People always want more, more access, more laws, more restrictions more more more more say over what google does.

Everyone here wants more unbridled more more more - the people that have to finance it want more more more.

It never stops. - Even now people that have almost 0 personal effect on the internet think they have the right to tell one of it's chief financiers and enablers that there opinion is wrong. take a step back and ask yourself a simple question - would I believe Google or someone like myself about the actual future of the web ?

Maybe you should be asking yourself the question - what does the internet do for me that I care so much anyway. You think the world is a better place because you know the tropical weather patterns or your at home boning the misses instead ?

Hemingway comes to mind "Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know"

Originally posted by hippomchippo
By the way guys, make sure you don't use google chrome, it collects huge amounts of data on your browsing.

Perhaps this is a good place to note that, regardless of which internet browser you use:

1. Google records the IP address of everyone who visits abovetopsecret.com.
2. Information identifying every unique page you view on ATS, and when you view it, is sent to google.
3. ATS stores 'third-party tracking cookies' that allow you to be uniquely identified, even if your IP address changes.
4. Google can use this information to determine every ATS page you choose to view, when you viewed it, and roughly how long you spend reading it.

Now, google's privacy policy prevents them from releasing this information, unless required to do so by law, or unless they really think it's in the public's best interest to do so. So every ATS member who is concerned about keeping their browsing history 'private' should be keeping watch on this thread.

Originally posted by truthquest

Originally posted by Snarf
No anonymity kind of works for me.

I have nothing to hide.

What benefits does anonymity have over not, if you don't do anything illegal or act like a fool?

Perhaps no free speech works for you too. For example, maybe you have nothing offensive to say to people. But then would you go a step further and say other people should be forced by law to express who they are. In America we have the freedom of expression. Telling who you are is an expression. Therefore it is my right to not express that. Agreed?

That's the difference though. people who say that they have nothing to hide don't typically want to restrict other's speech.

Anonymity drains the credibility from any statement or action unless that statement or action is so profound that it transcends anonymity. If you care about what you say and it's important to you, you'll take the credit for your words and actions.

I'm totally fine with free speech, and yes the ability to say things anonymously has been protected in the past, but secrecy breeds so many things that are detrimental to society as a whole.

Originally posted by Ian McLean

Perhaps this is a good place to note that, regardless of which internet browser you use:

1. Google records the IP address of everyone who visits abovetopsecret.com.
2. Information identifying every unique page you view on ATS, and when you view it, is sent to google.
3. ATS stores 'third-party tracking cookies' that allow you to be uniquely identified, even if your IP address changes.
4. Google can use this information to determine every ATS page you choose to view, when you viewed it, and roughly how long you spend reading it.

Now, google's privacy policy prevents them from releasing this information, unless required to do so by law, or unless they really think it's in the public's best interest to do so. So every ATS member who is concerned about keeping their browsing history 'private' should be keeping watch on this thread.

Protip (how to safely browse via Firefox):

Select Tools, then Options... The Options window will be displayed... Select the Privacy tab. Within the Privacy tab, select "Automatically start Firefox in a private browsing session"

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by grahag
I don't think your argument is any more valid. Calling something stupid without validation is just as bad as referring to historic propaganda to prove your point. Validate your arguments as to WHY it's stupid and prove your point. Otherwise, you're just another "me too".

I validated it quite early on and made the argument clear, if you clicked and read the thread you would find i didn't just call it stupid, i gave clear reasons why it is. Being anonymous gives people more freedom to discuss things they usually wouldn't. If you can't understand why that is then there isn't much i can do to convince you other than to say review my thread history and ask yourself, would you discuss some of the topics i have posted with your identity in the open? Having nothing to hide doesn't stop people reading into what you have put and assuming things and those assumptions could have all sorts of consequences.

Originally posted by grahag
I'm intrigued though. What if EVERYONE wasn't anonymous. Even the government? You would know who was posting whatever publicly. I think it would lend to a new era of openness. Similar to the argument of what if everyone could read everyone else's minds?

If you REALLY want to stay anonymous and private, don't put anything on the web that you don't want known. If one person has access to it, potentially EVERYONE has access to it.

If everyone was not anonymous then wikileaks and other forms of whistleblowing couldn't exist and it would actually give government more control and make companies completely unaccountable. Because if your identity is tied to you finding gross abuses of power and you expose those abuses then you make yourself a very clear target. In only a short time all idea of releasing evidence of coverups and crimes would be utterly destroyed because people would fear for their safety.

These are very important reasons to keep the web anonymous.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

I suspect that you find your topics more interesting than the government would. It's nothing that hasn't been said before somewhere else and unless you're breeding treason or plotting violence, I doubt they'd care one little bit.

In my question though, i asked what if EVERYONE and capitalized it for emphasis wasn't anonymous? No more people shilling for the government because it's all out there. No more people gaming forums with multiple posts from multiple accounts. There'd be no need for whistleblowing, because it's all out there. My glass is half full I guess.

reply to post by Ian McLean


Does getting your head around Linux and switching to it alleviate any of these kind of problems? I've heard good things...


But to the OP, I wouldn't mind a lack on anonymity is we lived under a better system. With a Corporatist Kleptocracy as the foundation, its only doomed to be abused.

Originally posted by EFGuy


Google CEO is cleverly passing the blame on Government while pushing for no anonymity on the interwebs. Who has to gain more from no anonymity? It's companies like google who uses personal information to horde ads on your face. I don't like where this is going. I love how he tries to make the distinction between anonymity and privacy. I'm very certain that they will be the ones to decide which is which and what it entails and not us the average internet users.

What more this coming from a guy (CEO) who blacklisted CNet for violating CEO's privacy shows his hyprocrisy

Google CEO Eric Schmidt says privacy isn't important, and if you want to keep something private, "maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place" (in other words, "innocent people have nothing to hide.")

Google CEO says privacy doesn't matter. Google blacklists CNet for violating CEO's privacy.

www.networkworld.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

These fools don't know the chimera they are trying to make. They (google, verizon and comcast) are doing it in order to make sure they can get more money out of the internet by targeting known people with ads that suit their surfing habits. And in the meantime, the NSA and other govt. organizations can better see what you are surfing for and who you are talking to (this way it makes it easy for them to blackmail you or set you up for a crime). You see many people believe it or not don't want others to see what they are doing online, it's not that it's illegal it's just embarrassing. Trying to seperate Anonymity from privacy, I guess Schmidt hasn't seen the news over the years about the NSA and other intelligence agencies going through peoples data.

It goes to show you, in America our govt. and our leaders can mess up a good thing. Did you guys here about how some states are tearing up paved roads because they don't have the money to pave them. But over in china they have maglev trains and building more of them. We are devolving into a thirdworld country and eventually we will have enclaves (just like a thirdworld country) of the rich and privileged and the rest trying to live off the scraps.

Originally posted by grahag
I suspect that you find your topics more interesting than the government would. It's nothing that hasn't been said before somewhere else and unless you're breeding treason or plotting violence, I doubt they'd care one little bit.

I never even mentioned the government finding my topics interesting or not, so you asssumed that, see how that works? Now that's an assumption that won't cause any harm, but when discussing sensitive topics all sorts of accusations get thrown around and if tied to an actual identity could be harmful to the individuals reputation. So the individual doesn't discuss the topics and slowly we censor ourselves until only the "safe" topics are discussed. This harms open and broad debate on many topics including taboo subjects.

Originally posted by grahag

In my question though, i asked what if EVERYONE and capitalized it for emphasis wasn't anonymous? No more people shilling for the government because it's all out there. No more people gaming forums with multiple posts from multiple accounts. There'd be no need for whistleblowing, because it's all out there. My glass is half full I guess.

If everyone wasn't anonymous then my earlier argument applies, people won't discuss certain taboo topics that really do need to be discussed.

However your idea is utterly ridiculous because the government will make sure to maintain a certain level of anonymity for employees because of security concerns, either to individuals or corporations or government agencies. It's also ridiculous because every hacker in this world will descend upon this new tech and find a way around it, and believe me, they will find a way


My glass is half full as well, i just realise the dangers of what you are suggesting. Yes dangers already exist, but i would rather have freedom and danger than swap it for other dangers and no freedom.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by misinformational

Good info. That has the effect of clearing your cookies on exit, but does nothing to stop the other points I mentioned, such as the IP address that is sent to google on every page view (enabled via ga.js).

Really, with such trickery that's just coming to light, such as the re-spawing of third-party cookies via flash private data store, and the likelihood of many other similar tricks that aren't public knowledge yet, there's no real set of "protips" to ensure anonymous browsing.

reply to post by Ian McLean


I agree that this doesn't guarantee anonymity, but it does help.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by misinformational]

reply to post by grahag


How about i make this even clearer for you.

Recently Blizzard, the makers of World of Warcraft decided to include the real names of people when they posted on the blizzard forums. This resulted in an absolutely massive campaign of email spamming, phone calling and people closing accounts. You see people don't always mind putting their real name online but being forced to tag it to everything concerns even those who happily give information away. Blizzard quickly backed down about putting the names on the forums.

There was a case where a guy travelled miles to kill another person because they killed them in a game. If you start attaching peoples real ID to everything then you make them open targets. Some of the debates on ATS get pretty heated, all it takes is one nut job and you've got trouble. Right now it's quite difficult for someone to track the average user of this website if they keep plenty of details to themselves but with real names attached....................yeah brilliant idea man

Related story about gamer killing another

www.nydailynews.com...

Second story - The nut job in question spent months trying to get the guys address and then stabbed him over 80 times. Imagine how much easier it would be with your identity always there.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

[edit on 10-8-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Time to give www.ixquick.com... a try then.

On June 27, 2006, Ixquick.com became the first search engine to delete private details of its users.[5] IP addresses and other personal information are deleted within 48 hours of a search.[6] Ixquick also does not share its users' personal information with other search engines or with the provider of its sponsored results.[7][8] Ixquick was awarded the first European Privacy Seal (EuroPriSe) for its privacy practices on July 14, 2008. This European Union-sponsored initiative guarantees compliance with EU laws and regulations on data security and privacy, through a series of design and technical audits.[9] As of January 28, 2009, Ixquick no longer records users' IP addresses at all.[10][11] [edit]

en.wikipedia.org...

Also available through https at ixquick.com...

reply to post by Ian McLean

In firefox (I'm guessing in the other browsers as well) you can block certain sites from storing cookies. I added "google.com", "*.google.com", "www.google.com" and "www.*.google.com". Don't know if that actually keeps everything out though.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by sn00daard]

reply to post by sn00daard


If using firefox there is a fine little addon called "cookie monster". You can set it to various levels of security but if you want to stop all cookies then you can set it to reject all cookies and then only allow cookies for the websites you used. This means you never have any third party stuff on your system, you don't have tracking cookies (unless you allow stuff like google) and basically it greatly increases privacy.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Thanx for the tip, going to give that a try. Noticed this as well: BetterPrivacy

Which claims to stop some new flash "Super-Cookie".

Better Privacy serves to protect against not deletable longterm cookies, a new generation of 'Super-Cookie', which silently conquered the internet. This new cookie generation offers unlimited user tracking to industry and market research. Concerning privacy Flash- and DOM Storage objects are most critical. This addon was made to make users aware of those hidden, never expiring objects and to offer an easy way to get rid of them - since browsers are unable to do that for you.

Flash-cookies (Local Shared Objects, LSO) are pieces of information placed on your computer by a Flash plugin. Those Super-Cookies are placed in central system folders and so protected from deletion. They are frequently used like standard browser cookies. Although their thread potential is much higher as of conventional cookies, only few users began to take notice of them. It is of frequent occurrence that -after a time- hundreds of those Flash-cookies reside in special folders. And they won't be deleted - never.

EDIT to add:
Just tried that BetterPrivacy flash cleaner on a 4 month old (fairly heavily used) ubuntu install and it did indeed delete quite a few of those flash LSO files, some of them from pretty shifty sites.

Cookie monster is also very nice, wish I could give you more than one star for that one

[edit on 10-8-2010 by sn00daard]

reply to post by dragnet53


hi dragnet

Thanks for the heads up on the android software!

I already have a cell and am about to change it,
so now i'll make sure that android isnt one of the programs
pre-installed on the phone and i'll make sure to ask about any other google software
and the likes i might not want pre-installed on it.

Oh i stopped using youtube as well and i never liked gmail from the moment they
first launched it and didnt even try it when it was in beta mode.

sucks that they forced you to do as such just to get an account
but then again they're following M$ with their msn software, needing
an email from their own host to create an account and that too i no longer use.

I just dont like ppl trying to force anything on me i dont really want or need.

seems ya might need to speak to your friend and wake him up,
which i have a feeling you might have already tried but just wont listen to reason.

Originally posted by grahag

I'm intrigued though. What if EVERYONE wasn't anonymous. Even the government? You would know who was posting whatever publicly. I think it would lend to a new era of openness. Similar to the argument of what if everyone could read everyone else's minds?

It is a cool thought experiment. Its off topic, but you do kinda wonder what would be different. Would we have any of the same politicians in office if we were privy to their personal data, correspondence etc? Would people behave the same? I think it might force better behavior, from everyone, if they knew they could be linked to anything they did.

I think we should pass legislation requiring that public servants have their every moment on the job recorded and aired for our evaluation. Make that a requirement for hiring. I bet a LOT would change.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by SupremeKnowledge
If Google doesnt get off their high horse and stop acting pompous and treating their users like inferiors then we WILL find another search engine provider....

Already done my friend, Cuil.com. In their privacy statement it says:

3. What information do you keep about me? None. We analyze the Web, not our users. Read our Privacy Policy for details. It’s short.

www.cuil.com...

I loved Google. Search was great, email was awesome, but they're going down a path I don't like. So good bye Google, adios Gmail...

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Holy crap.

The overzealous video gamer will spend two years behind bars, and receive anger management therapy.

"You are a menace to society," Judge Alexiane Potel said. "I am frankly terrified of the disproportionate reaction you could have if someone looked at you the wrong way in the street."

Read more: www.nydailynews.com... GC019VG

2 years for attempted murder? He tried to stab the guy in the heart and missed by one inch. And got two years and anger management therapy.

But yeah, point taken. Think how easy it will be for pedophiles and serial killers to hunt down their prey on the internet. Hmmmm. Maybe thats the way to discuss this to make the public cry out to stop this legislation.

"Google wants to make it easier for pedophiles to find your kiddies!"

reply to post by EFGuy


wow...f*** google, they just lost an avid user. No mos dos links...Bing here I come...

Seriiously though people, the last number I saw on the keep the internet free petition was 35,555. Very unimpressive, how many people regularaly viewing links when you visit a thread and how many of you ARE actually about what you talk about in the sense that you signed all your petitions, you phone call when you can, and you educate the people around you. I do, I can personally atest to atleast 50 of those signatures and I plan on having atleast half those people right letters and phone our people. It's not much but I'll go to sleep knowing I didn't go down without a fight, how about you?

Fast foward a few years and the web stops being a place of creativity and free speech and becomes and monitored controlled copy of the real world. Is this what people want? I for one enjoy the freedom the internet has restored in our society ...that is filled with invisible bars. How long is it before the internet is controlled, once controlled by the government whats stopping them later allowing corporations to have some of that control, next thing we are being forced to watch a 10 min informercial before our page loads.
The internet is the modern answer for something sought throughout human history and that thing is freedom, we can't just go bush and live off the land because someone owns all the land. We as an animal have given up our freedoms and our ability to live in our natural environment in exchange for our governments protection. This is why it is our right and our duty to ensure the govenment does what is right for all of us at all times.
The internet is a way for individuals to collectively gather with similar ideas and speak freely about what matters to them, when we let a government control that freedom it will lead to corruption allowing things to be swept under the mat. We need to remember it is our job to watch the government not the job of the governement to watch us.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by byteshertz]